Back to their old tricks...

[mnealtx 0]

And it certainly didn't take long...

From JPFO

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January 22, 2007
Congress Shafts Second Amendment ... Again

Well, they certainly didn't wait long, did they?

Alan Korwin, author of "Gun Laws of America" ( www.gunlaws.com ), recently alerted us to some ominous activity taking place in Congress. Less than three weeks after the 110th Congress convened, the Democrats have already proposed four -- yes, FOUR -- new gun laws!

"The Child Gun Safety and Gun Access Prevention Act of 2007," H.R.256 ( http://tinyurl.com/3brx43 ) would raise the minimum age for the ownership of a semi-automatic rifle from 18 to 21. In addition, children under 18 attending a gun show must be accompanied by an adult at all times. Worse, it calls for fines and jailtime if a child gets a hold of your firearm and uses it to cause death or serious bodily injury, if you "recklessly disregarded the risk" that a child could access your firearm.

More ludricrous is H.R. 428 ( http://tinyurl.com/38k7mk ), entitled "To require the Consumer Product Safety Commission to ban toys which in size, shape, or overall appearance resemble real handguns." Yes, you read that right. The Democrats are pushing the banning of _toy_ guns, if they resemble real guns in size, shape OR overall appearance.

There's also "The NICS Improvement Act," H.R. 297 ( http://tinyurl.com/2q88lf ). NICS, of course, is the national firearms background checks for the public required by the Brady law. We'd like to tell you more about the bill, but weirdly, no information on it has been posted on the Thomas Locator site for Congressional legislation.

The most Draconian bill thus far, though, is "The Gun Show Loophole Closing Act of 2007," H.R. 96 ( http://tinyurl.com/2m8vmr ). This misleadingly-named bill -- a gun-hater's dream come true -- systematically destroys not just the Second Amendment but a number of your other rights as well.

Says Alan Korwin of HR 96:

"Under the original draft, currently legal gun shows are outlawed without prior federal permission. Gun show promoters must agree to warrantless searches in order to operate, and may be arrested if private citizens talk at the show about gun sales they wish to complete away from the show. The right to assemble peaceably at a gun show or even plan for one, carries stiff prison terms unless federal licenses are issued in advance. I am not making this up.

"Massive new bureaucracy is created because all shows and their exhibitors must be registered 30 days before the show, then again 72 hours before the show, and again five days after the show. That's in addition to registering anyone who walks in, plus "any other information" the Secretary of the Treasury decides, by regulation, is necessary on vendors, attendees, and the show itself."

This is just the beginning, folks. And we're in this alone. You may recall that President Bush has declared his willingness to sign any "assault weapons" bill that comes across his desk, so we probably shouldn't expect too much opposition to legislation of this type.

All of these laws, of course, will be enforced by our "friends" at the BATFE. This begs the question: How many wake-up calls, and how many knocks at the door do we need? IF YOU HAVEN'T SUPPORTED THE MAKING OF OUR FILM _THE GANG_, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

_The Gang_ ( www.jpfo.org/thegang.htm or www.thegangmovie.com ) focuses on the arbitrary, capricious, and yes, malicious activities of the BATFE. Our goal is not to "reform" or "reprimand" the BATFE: we want them OUT OF BUSINESS. We want to abolish ALL federal control and regulations of firearms. _The Gang_ will help us do that ... but we need you to help _The Gang_.

Please consider donating to this worthy cause. The Democrats in Congress are not going to stop their assault on our Second Amendment rights, and the Republicans don't appear to be able or willing to fight them.

It's up to us.

- The Liberty Crew

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[BIGUN 1,506]

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H.R.256 ( http://tinyurl.com/3brx43 ) would raise the minimum age for the ownership of a semi-automatic rifle from 18 to 21.

Does this mean the age for military enlistment will rise up to 21 also?

No wait - that'll be covered here:

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must be accompanied by an adult at all times.

But it would appear that:

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it calls for fines and jailtime if a child gets a hold of your firearm and uses it to cause death or serious bodily injury

Maybe this would reduce the Iraqi death toll.

We could always issue them these cool little toy guns to have so they can at least appear ominous, ooooooh but wait:

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banning of _toy_ guns, if they resemble real guns in size, shape OR overall appearance.

I got off my first enlistment when I was 20 years old. Had applied at the local police department. Did well on the exams, physical, psych eval, the whole bit. Down to the oral interview with five senior-level officers and can see the nonverbals that its going well... All of the sudden one senior officer interrupts another after looking down at my packet and says, "Excuse me, how old are you?" I'm puzzled and reply, "20." He says, "Well son, I don't know how this slipped thru the cracks, but it's State law that you can't carry a gun until you're 21. "

So? By the time I finish the Academy, I'll be 21. Well, you'll have to come back and re-apply when you're 21. I'm sorry, I don't understand. "I'm sorry, but you can't even apply until you're 21 - I'm not sure how it got this far without anybody noticing."

"Sir, I just came back from Europe where part of my duties were to carry an M-16 every day, we had shoot-outs with (the then) Bader-Meinhoff gang almost weekly; I served for 3 years, but I can't apply to be on the police department?"

"I'm sorry, son - you'll have to come back when you're 21."

So, I went back down to my reserve commander who was also the area Army recruiter and asked him if he wanted some lunch.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[mnealtx 0]

Crazy, isn't it?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Andy9o8 3]

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So, I went back down to my reserve commander who was also the area Army recruiter and asked him if he wanted some lunch.

Ah, but don't forget...there is no free lunch...

[warpedskydiver 0]

I got off my first enlistment when I was 20 years old. Had applied at the local police department. Did well on the exams, physical, psych eval, the whole bit. Down to the oral interview with five senior-level officers and can see the nonverbals that its going well... All of the sudden one senior officer interrupts another after looking down at my packet and says, "Excuse me, how old are you?" I'm puzzled and reply, "20." He says, "Well son, I don't know how this slipped thru the cracks, but it's State law that you can't carry a gun until you're 21. "

So? By the time I finish the Academy, I'll be 21. Well, you'll have to come back and re-apply when you're 21. I'm sorry, I don't understand. "I'm sorry, but you can't even apply until you're 21 - I'm not sure how it got this far without anybody noticing."

"Sir, I just came back from Europe where part of my duties were to carry an M-16 every day, we had shoot-outs with (the then) Bader-Meinhoff gang almost weekly; I served for 3 years, but I can't apply to be on the police department?"

"I'm sorry, son - you'll have to come back when you're 21."

So, I went back down to my reserve commander who was also the area Army recruiter and asked him if he wanted some lunch.

[Zipp0 1]

Sound like good ideas. Keep guns out of kids hands and punish people for not securing their weapons. Keep kids from getting accidently shot by cops who think their toy guns are real. Raise the age for semi-autos to 21 - good idea. We don't trust them to drink, so why trust them to use a gun?Regulate gun shows a bit more wisely.

None of this prevents good citizens from getting firearms.

Good job Dems.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[warpedskydiver 0]

If a child breaks in to your home and uses your tools to break into your firearms storage area, and commits a crime with it, do you want to be held responsible for the actions of a criminal?

[mnealtx 0]

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Sound like good ideas. Keep guns out of kids hands and punish people for not securing their weapons. Keep kids from getting accidently shot by cops who think their toy guns are real. Raise the age for semi-autos to 21 - good idea. We don't trust them to drink, so why trust them to use a gun?Regulate gun shows a bit more wisely.

None of this prevents good citizens from getting firearms.

Good job Dems.

Cool - maybe they can go after the First, next ... no free speech until you're 21!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

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Keep kids from getting accidently shot by cops who think their toy guns are real.

That is a law that is being pushed by police departments... for exactly that reason.. and as friggin trigger happy as a hell of a lot of departments are these days its a hell of a good idea.. this whole shoot first attitude when they see something that looks like a gun... is all too real.

[Zipp0 1]

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If a child breaks in to your home and uses your tools to break into your firearms storage area, and commits a crime with it, do you want to be held responsible for the actions of a criminal?

Go back and read it again. It requires you to "recklessly disregard the risk" as written. If some child safecracker jimmies your lock, that is far from fitting those conditions. They do make gun safes that would be impossible for a child to get into, and probably thieves too.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Zipp0 1]

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Quote

Sound like good ideas. Keep guns out of kids hands and punish people for not securing their weapons. Keep kids from getting accidently shot by cops who think their toy guns are real. Raise the age for semi-autos to 21 - good idea. We don't trust them to drink, so why trust them to use a gun?Regulate gun shows a bit more wisely.

None of this prevents good citizens from getting firearms.

Good job Dems.

Cool - maybe they can go after the First, next ... no free speech until you're 21!!

An 18 year old with a gun in his hand is equally dangerous as one with a beer in his hand. They can both kill, and require a certain level of maturity to handle responsibly.

I personally am for making the age 18 legal for BOTH. We need one standard for adulthood. But I'd also be willing to make 21 the ONE STANDARD for adulthood.

That would mean:

Military service only after 21. Drinking after 21. Voting after 21. Trial as adult only after 21, etc.

One standard.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[mnealtx 0]

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An 18 year old with a gun in his hand is equally dangerous as one with a beer in his hand. They can both kill, and require a certain level of maturity to handle responsibly.

So can a 21 year old...a 40 year old... a 60 year old.

Fact of the matter is, there's already laws on the books about all this crap... making it MORE illegal is going to change things? I don't think so.

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I personally am for making the age 18 legal of BOTH. We need one standard for adulthood. But I'd also be willing to make 21 the ONE STANDARD for adulthood.

Currently, the only abitrary standard you've discussed that isn't 18 is drinking age.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[livendive 8]

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I personally am for making the age 18 legal for BOTH. We need one standard for adulthood. But I'd also be willing to make 21 the ONE STANDARD for adulthood.

That would mean:

Military service only after 21. Drinking after 21. Voting after 21. Trial as adult only after 21, etc.

One standard.

I absolutely agree. Be it 18 or 21, with responsibility should come privileges and vice versa. And no more of this bullshit of trying minors as adults. If we don't think the sentencing guidelines allow strict enough sentencing for minors convicted of particularly abhorrent crimes, we should change the sentencing standards rather than redefining the word adult on a case-by-case basis.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Andy9o8 3]

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I personally am for making the age 18 legal for BOTH. We need one standard for adulthood. But I'd also be willing to make 21 the ONE STANDARD for adulthood.

That would mean:

Military service only after 21. Drinking after 21. Voting after 21. Trial as adult only after 21, etc.

One standard.

There is reasonable logic to having inconsistent 18 & 21 standards. Re: military service, average males are probably at their prime physical stamina and flexibility (note how I don't say strength) between 18 & 22. That's also the prime age range when 2-3 years' military service will have the least disruption in the lives of the largest sample of people. I agree with allowing 18 year olds to vote (especially if they're potentially subject to military service at that age; let them vote in or out the government that has the power to send them to war), and be subject to adult criminal liability at 18, too. Over time, I've come to support the rise of the drinking age from 18 (in those states where that existed) to an older age as a way of reducing drunk-driving accidents.

[rehmwa 2]

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Military service only after 21. Drinking after 21. Voting after 21. Trial as adult only after 21, etc.

One standard.

from this list, which fit the bill?: sole gun ownership, speech, booze, smoking, drugs, abortion, driving unsupervised, working full time, voting, military service, keeping their babies, tried as adults, etc

and then, from that list, once you are an adult, don't expect the rest of us to pay for it

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 3]

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And no more of this bullshit of trying minors as adults.

Most people without criminal justice experience would be shocked at how many 15 - 17 year old criminal defendants get "certified as adults" for trial and sentencing. It's a hell of a lot.

[Zipp0 1]

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An 18 year old with a gun in his hand is equally dangerous as one with a beer in his hand. They can both kill, and require a certain level of maturity to handle responsibly.

So can a 21 year old...a 40 year old... a 60 year old.

Fact of the matter is, there's already laws on the books about all this crap... making it MORE illegal is going to change things? I don't think so.

Quote

I personally am for making the age 18 legal of BOTH. We need one standard for adulthood. But I'd also be willing to make 21 the ONE STANDARD for adulthood.

Currently, the only abitrary standard you've discussed that isn't 18 is drinking age.

There are other issues. For example - college grants for 18 year olds. Whether or not the parents will help pay, parent income is considered on grant applications. Also, claims on taxes for dependency. Also, there are health care coverage issues. And the "trial as adult" issue. You are either an adult with all responsibilities and priveledges, or not.

One standard.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[rehmwa 2]

adding to the list:

sole gun ownership,
speech,
booze,
smoking,
drugs,
abortion,
driving unsupervised,
working full time,
voting,
military service,
keeping their babies,
tried as adults,
independent assessment of finances for college aid
health care coverage under parent's policy
tax dependent status

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,182]

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If a child breaks in to your home and uses your tools to break into your firearms storage area, and commits a crime with it, do you want to be held responsible for the actions of a criminal?

Go back and read it again. It requires you to "recklessly disregard the risk" as written. If some child safecracker jimmies your lock, that is far from fitting those conditions. They do make gun safes that would be impossible for a child to get into, and probably thieves too.

Don't bother with FACTS!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[craddock 0]

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None of this prevents good citizens from getting firearms.

20 year olds can not be good citizens?. I know 12 year olds that own semi's. My brother in law could kick most peoples ass in a round of sporting clays or trap at 12. His little shoulder would suffer if he had to do that with a pump.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[mnealtx 0]

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None of this prevents good citizens from getting firearms.

20 year olds can not be good citizens?. I know 12 year olds that own semi's. My brother in law could kick most peoples ass in a round of sporting clays or trap at 12. His little shoulder would suffer if he had to do that with a pump.

Your brother in law is NOT a good citizen of the collective and must be retrained... it's for the CHILLLLLLLllllllldrennnnn....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,465]

If as a society you don't think your members are mature enough at 18 to drink one beer, why would that same 18 year old be mature enough to own a firearm?

[mnealtx 0]

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If as a society you don't think your members are mature enough at 18 to drink one beer, why would that same 18 year old be mature enough to own a firearm?

Talk to Congress about it...they're the ones that passed the idiotic laws...I certainly don't agree with them!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Butters 0]

If society is producing individuals who are declared to immature to be considered an adult at eighteen ... we have problems.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Talk to Congress about it

Oh, I am sorry, I thought that american citizens voted for members of congress? I would think that if society had an issue with the drinking age, they would vote for people willing to change that.

Since that has never even remotely been on the horizon, I would have to assume that the american society does not think an 18 year old is mature enough to have a beer.

Hence, I still question why one would then think that that same 18 year old would be mature enough to own a firearm?