Absolute dilemma - help!

[vortexring 0]

A couple of years ago a friend of mine discovered his wife had spent around £8000 ($16000) on his credit card without his knowledge. He's a soldier in the military, so he's not exactly rich. The fact he felt she had stolen from himself, and in a sense, their 3 little girls, broke his heart. I still remember vividly one evening on the beer where a certain dickhead decided to pick on my mate and very quickly regret it. At the time I couldn't figure out why the incident brought out utter psychosis on a bloke who would normally walk away from such incidents.

But I now know. Recently he came back from 6 months overseas on operations to discover his wifes gone and run up a £3200 credit card debt on his card. He's devastated. He reckoned she wouldn't do such a thing again, considering all the strains it put on the marriage last time. (And more importantly - there was no need. They both have a joint bank account, and he wasn't spending any money.)

But she has - I don't know his wife too well, but she seems nice enough. Obviously completely mental when it comes to financial matters. My mates convinced the money was generally spent on food, clothes and what have you.

But the dilemma is what should he do now?
They can't afford counselling.
He can't ever see himself being able to trust her again - so despite the children, he thinks he should leave her.

Should he?

It took a bit of effort for him to tell me all this over a few beers and I can't decide myself what course of action to recommend.
And we've a piss up next Saturday arranged....

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[StreetScooby 5]

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My mates convinced the money was generally spent on food, clothes and what have you.

He can ask the credit card company for a list of the charges, and see where they came from.

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He can't ever see himself being able to trust her again

No, he can't. Cancel the credit cards in her name.

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he thinks he should leave her.

Not, yet. See how she responds to the cancelled credit cards. All marriages go through rough periods. They have kids, and this should be considered a rough period. They should work it out, sans credit cards.

We are all engines of karma

[vortexring 0]

The cards in his name - she doesn't have one. They've been married for years and it now seems its been generally more rough than smooth. He knows what the money was spent on also.

I've tried imagining being in such a situation myself but can't think of a solution. I asked my Dad but had no help there; 'chop her hands off' was his suggestion.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[BIGUN 1,506]

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They can't afford counselling.

Does the military in the UK not offer family/credit counseling to its soldiers? With three kids in the equation, I'm not sure that cutting away is going to lessen his financial burden, nor would it be good for the kids if this is the only issue in their marriage (I know you said there were some other bumps in the road, but this seems to be a predicating factor).

Maybe his parents could hang onto the credit card when he's deployed and she would have to have them go with her for extraodinary purchases that are beyond their means?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[vortexring 0]

The UK military does offer counselling but eventually most couples will be directed to resolve their issues with professional organisations such as Relate and such like.

I like the parents taking the cards when he's away. I'll certainly mention this idea, but I think there is a can of worms waiting to be opened, in the sense of family getting involved in what's a very personal issue. (I think a kettle would appear on top of his head if he realised I'm chatting about his problems online.)

I also think it's mainly the issue of trust that's eating away at him.
I'm married myself - I'd hate to be in a position where I can't trust my wife. But thanks all the same.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[ladydyver 0]

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The UK military does offer counselling but eventually most couples will be directed to resolve their issues with professional organisations such as Relate and such like.

I like the parents taking the cards when he's away. I'll certainly mention this idea, but I think there is a can of worms waiting to be opened, in the sense of family getting involved in what's a very personal issue. (I think a kettle would appear on top of his head if he realised I'm chatting about his problems online.)

I also think it's mainly the issue of trust that's eating away at him.
I'm married myself - I'd hate to be in a position where I can't trust my wife. But thanks all the same.

sometimes things happen and trust can't be fixed - he needs to decide if he can make it work, only he knows the answer to that - there are children involved so that is a huge factor that needs to be taken into consideration. Question: Does she spend like this when he is home? I know chicks like to shop but sometimes people spend money to fill a hole that they have inside of them. I am not trying to make excuses for her but it sounds like she has a problem -regardless she needs to not have access to the cards if her spending is causing these sorts of problems. Just a few ideas to think about anyway.

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[Zenister 0]

reach right and pull...

the adage applies..

fool me once shame on you.. fool me twice shame on me... what sort of fool goes in for a third?

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[akarunway 1]

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reach right and pull...

the adage applies..

fool me once shame on you.. fool me twice shame on me... what sort of fool goes in for a third?

Agreed. Cut her away. Staying married for the kids sake doesn't cut it. Been thru it twice. NEVER AGAIN. And it wasn't the money. The last wife was a whore. MY BAD

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[vortexring 0]

>sometimes things happen and trust can't be fixed - he needs to decide if he can make it work, only he knows the answer to that - there are children involved so that is a huge factor that needs to be taken into consideration. Question: Does she spend like this when he is home? I know chicks like to shop but sometimes people spend money to fill a hole that they have inside of them. I am not trying to make excuses for her but it sounds like she has a problem -regardless she needs to not have access to the cards if her spending is causing these sorts of problems. Just a few ideas to think about anyway.

[JohnRich 4]

He's got to remove her name from all accounts. Pay all the bills himself. And then dole out the cash to her for incidentals like groceries, like giving an allowance to a little kid - only so much per week, and no more. Don't trust her for again for anything financial except basic welfare of the kids.

[Andy9o8 3]

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Maybe his parents could hang onto the credit card when he's deployed and she would have to have them go with her for extraodinary purchases that are beyond their means?

Not a bad idea; except if she's already got the current card number & expiration date, then she has access to the account even if she doesn't have physical possession of the card. For example, I make a lot of purchases and bill payments online and via phone; so can she. For this idea to work, I'd recommend canceling the old accounts and establishing new accounts, using his parents' address, and having only his parents (other than himself) have physical custody of the cards.

Also - in addition to general counseling, this guy - er, bloke - needs legal advice, even if only to know what position he's in and what options he has to choose from. Does the UK military offer its members civil-law legal services? If so, he most definitely should avail himself of them, the sooner the better.

[Andy9o8 3]

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He's got to remove her name from all accounts. Pay all the bills himself. And then dole out the cash to her for incidentals like groceries, like giving an allowance to a little kid - only so much per week, and no more. Don't trust her for again for anything financial except basic welfare of the kids.

Agreed. Too bad it has to come to that.
Having said that, being married myself for over 20 years, I know that that can be a whole lot easier said than done.

[rehmwa 2]

Has he considered running for political office and fooling around with the interns?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[vortexring 0]

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He's got to remove her name from all accounts. Pay all the bills himself. And then dole out the cash to her for incidentals like groceries, like giving an allowance to a little kid - only so much per week, and no more. Don't trust her for again for anything financial except basic welfare of the kids.

Thanks John, but such actions are hardly ingrediants for a happy marriage in anybodies book - still, possibly better than no marriage.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Zipp0 1]

Taking the cards and putting her on an 'allowance" is not the answer. Does she work? Maybe she needs to get a job so that she can buy the things that she wants or needs.

I can't imagine how it would be to be beholden to my wife for everything, and not able to spend money.

What she did was not responsible, but it is understandable. And plus, if he wasn't spending any money, just pay off the credit cards with the saving he should have banked, and call it even.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[vortexring 0]

Also - in addition to general counseling, this guy - er, bloke - needs legal advice, even if only to know what position he's in and what options he has to choose from. Does the UK military offer its members civil-law legal services? If so, he most definitely should avail himself of them, the sooner the better.

[Zipp0 1]

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Also - in addition to general counseling, this guy - er, bloke - needs legal advice, even if only to know what position he's in and what options he has to choose from. Does the UK military offer its members civil-law legal services? If so, he most definitely should avail himself of them, the sooner the better.

To a certain extent yes - I'm assuming that if he does decide to leave her he'll worry like a bastard over informing the divorce courts on the credit card 'problem,' because she will be done for fraud.(Won't she?) And I think eventually he will have to tell them, if he goes down the bitter divorce road.

Anyway - it's nice to get some feedback. It is a puzzling situation; to try and suggest suitable solutions where the emotional and logic elements clash with one another.

[vortexring 0]

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Taking the cards and putting her on an 'allowance; is not the answer. Does she work? Maybe she needs to get a job so that she can but the things that she wants or needs.

I can't imagine how it would be to be beholden to my wife for everything, and not able to spend money.

What she did was not responsible, but it is understandable. And plus, if he wasn't spending any money, just pay off the credit cards with the saving he should have banked, and call it even.

Well, she isn't working as their youngest is almost two.
Whilst he was away (and at home) she has full access to the account his pay goes into - so no savings there. And again, another area she'll have be denied access to.
So when he's away on op's or even short exercises, he's got all the hassle of setting up standing orders to then be paid into one of her seperate accounts.

I dunno - maybe he should just chop her hands off.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[wmw999 2,602]

They can't NOT afford counseling if they want to stay married. I don't know if the UK has consumer credit counseling services, but this would be a place to start to go. She has to understand the consequences, and working through the budget, and giving up fun things, in order to pay off the debt is reasonable.

She'll need to do more cooking from scratch, and less buying of ready-made food and pretty clothing (including for the girls).

Again, in the US someone can set up a credit card with a limit on it for someone. If she'll agree to it (and she should), maybe he could give her access to a credit card with a limit, instead of the full account and credit card.

This completely sucks. But before leaving her, if he can find some sort of credit counseling service, it would be good to try that first.

Good luck to him; you're a good friend for trying to give him some resources. He should tell her, in words, just how hurt and angry he is, and how this has affected him.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Botellines 0]

Many couples open a joint account for general expenses while retaining their own personal private account. Their paycheck goes to the individual account and they transfer some money to the joint account at the beggining of the month and they plan the monthly budget accordingly.

Even if she doesn´t work and she doesn´t contribute to the joint account your friend can retain the extra money in his individual account instead of giving her full access to the whole paycheck. Of course it would only work if the joint account has a debit card and not a credit card.

This is only a quick fix while they work out the real problems.