Wahabism

[Skyrad 0]

It is my firm belif that Wahabism is an evil perversion of Islam and I would like to see Wahabi Mosques in the UK closed and those that preach the hatred of Wahabism arrested and proscecuted wherever possible. All those from overseas regardless of what punishment they face in their country of origin deported. This creeping evil in the world needs to be erradicated. I'm so pissed off at the amount of twisted converts to Islam who are seduced by this evil perversion of Islam. I'd like to see Wahibisim attacked wherever is raises its ugly head.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[piisfish 140]

speaker's corner anyone ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Amazon 7]

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I'd like to see Wahibisim attacked wherever is raises its ugly head.

But the Saudi's are our friends

[Skyrad 0]

LOL... Opps! Thought I was in SC

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Maybe your friends but with friends like that....

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy_Copland 0]

Basically you sat there, stewing in your own hate, blinded and navigated to Bonfire. Good going

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Skyrad 0]

You got a camera in here or something???

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[ryoder 1,590]

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It is my firm belif that Wahabism is an evil perversion of Islam...

You are correct. For anyone who has any doubt, read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Devil-Washington-Saudi-Crude/dp/1400050219

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Skyrad 0]

And from a Muslim website

http://www.shianews.com/hi/asia/news_id/0001727.php

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[dorbie 0]

The question I have is what rescued the West from this crap?

We used to go marching off under crosses butchering infidels in the name of God, if it wasn't Christians killing non-Christians it was Catholics killing Protestants & vice-versa.

I still see some of that stupidity lingering in places but by and large it's live & let live in the West and the sectarian idiots are seen for what they are.

So what's the difference between them & us? Is it the faith or the radicalised indoctrination that pervades their society. How the heck do you extinguish this brushfire?

IMHO Wahabism is just another symptom, eliminate it (if that's even possible) and you've only dealt with part of the problem.

[pincheck 0]

having just watched the Dispatches programs on c4 i can understand where your coming from there are a lot off wolves out there in sheep's clothing you wonder if there can be coexistence mate.I don't really care about race creed religion or colour it means nothing to me. I take people at face value treat me right and i will do the same to you but the stuff they where preaching behind the scenes is pure bile, which only gives credence to other extremist groups like the Bnp and that's another thing that i find deplorable and would not like to see on the rise but this group seem to be on a colision course and would not like to give fuel to.

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[billvon 3,173]

>So what's the difference between them & us?

Primarily 50 years or so of living in a different kind of society. Keep in mind that we were no angels when we first started out - we had slavery, no women's rights, child labor, witch trials etc. It took us a long time, but we had a good framework in place (the constitution) and we were usually amenable to listening to it over popular opinion.

Even so, it took us about 250 years to go from the Salem witch trials to the abolition of the last "official" discrimination against blacks. I think that we will see similar evolutions in the rest of the world, but it's not going to happen overnight, nor should we try to _force_ it to happen overnight. How do you think we would have reacted if China had invaded us in 1820 to "free the slaves?" I think we might have reacted poorly to that.

[dorbie 0]

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>So what's the difference between them & us?

Primarily 50 years or so of living in a different kind of society. Keep in mind that we were no angels when we first started out - we had slavery, no women's rights, child labor, witch trials etc. It took us a long time, but we had a good framework in place (the constitution) and we were usually amenable to listening to it over popular opinion.

Even so, it took us about 250 years to go from the Salem witch trials to the abolition of the last "official" discrimination against blacks. I think that we will see similar evolutions in the rest of the world, but it's not going to happen overnight, nor should we try to _force_ it to happen overnight. How do you think we would have reacted if China had invaded us in 1820 to "free the slaves?" I think we might have reacted poorly to that.

That's very U.S.-centric, most other nations in the West progressed along similar lines without a constitution drawn up by land grabbing, slave raping rebels.

I'm not advocating what you imply I am, each one of us is the total of our lifetime's experience, there's no genetic memory. We're moulded by the present, not the past and it didn't take me 250 years to get here. Cultural gestalt plays a big role but let's not fool ourselves that this is either inevitable or unavoidably slow. There have been some spectacular blotches on the copybook, for example Germany in 1930s. If gradual cultural change is the key then the pace of cultural change in the middle east seems to be far from gradual and accelerating faster than ever in exactly the wrong direction for now. Every opportunity for rational expression gets hijacked and perverted to make the situation worse.

[Skyrad 0]

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The question I have is what rescued the West from this crap?

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I don't think the west has been rescued from this crap, its just that we choose to ignore it. Also because we are living in the west we can see the complete picture. If you look at the west from outside alot of people see the worst of us too.

We used to go marching off under crosses butchering infidels in the name of God, if it wasn't Christians killing non-Christians it was Catholics killing Protestants & vice-versa.

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Some would argue that we are on the third crusade. And Northern Ireland still boils over at times (Currently writing this from Belfast)until a very few years ago secatarian murder here was common.

I still see some of that stupidity lingering in places but by and large it's live & let live in the West and the sectarian idiots are seen for what they are.

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People who belive that abortion clinic staff deserve to die exist in more than ones or twos. The Westborough Baptist church belive pretty much the same as the Wahibists yet knowing they are wack jobs doesn't change the fact they still exist (and by no means are alone in their thinking) People in the US government belive in End time theory and they are running the country, knowing they are wack jobs still doesnt change the fact they exist and are active. The majority of people in the middle east also know that the Wahabists are a sick perversion but they still exist.

So what's the difference between them & us? Is it the faith or the radicalised indoctrination that pervades their society. How the heck do you extinguish this brushfire?

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Mainly its the perspective from the position from which you view the ground

IMHO Wahabism is just another symptom, eliminate it (if that's even possible) and you've only dealt with part of the problem.

Agreed although I suspect that we might disagree on what the rest of the problem is.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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most other nations in the West progressed along similar lines without a constitution drawn up by land grabbing, slave raping rebels.

LMAO

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Don't forget the Communist regime of the Soviet Union or the Fascist regime of Spain. Wahabism may not be as far behind as you may think. It is a modern idology not an ancient one which has its roots more firmly placed in Marxist theory than in the Quran. The basic idea that world revolution will come through the actions of the revolutioary vanguard through violent action has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with Marxism.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[dorbie 0]

You can always argue that one set of craziness equates to another, but I just don't buy your argument for equivalence. Like most messes in the real world, there are degrees and one has to apply some level of judgement rather than running around with annecdotes pretending an Insane Asylum is just like a University because you can point to a few dippy faculty members.

I don't expect any society can eliminate crazies and conflict but some do a better job than others.

[billvon 3,173]

>That's very U.S.-centric . . .

Yes, because that's what I'm most familar with. Many other countries have seen similar developments.

>most other nations in the West progressed along similar lines without a
>constitution drawn up by land grabbing, slave raping rebels.

Right, but most have their own explicit list of rights and a court system to make sure they are not violated.

>We're moulded by the present, not the past and it didn't take me 250
>years to get here.

?? I'd argue that you were molded a great deal by the past (your parents) and in turn by their past (how they were raised.) Society evolves with time. If you tried to claim that blacks should be allowed to marry whites in 1810, you'd have been laughed out of congress. Even in 1950 it caused a lot of strife. We accept it now because society is different, even though our constitution didn't change appreciably.

>If gradual cultural change is the key then the pace of cultural change in
>the middle east seems to be far from gradual and accelerating faster than
>ever in exactly the wrong direction for now. Every opportunity for rational
>expression gets hijacked and perverted to make the situation worse.

I think you're seeing extremists instead of the average, and a lot of that extremism is reaction to foreign events instead of internal change. But it is making other progress nearly impossible. It is a problem they will have to deal with to let their society evolve into one that hews closer to their ideals.

[dorbie 0]

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most other nations in the West progressed along similar lines without a constitution drawn up by land grabbing, slave raping rebels.

LMAO

The irony is Jefferson is my favorite founding father.

[dorbie 0]

Well look at the way Nazi Germany and Bushido Japan were turned around after WWII. I expect the modern press would strenuously object to the methods employed to do that at the time.

P.S. and a couple of generations of Hitler youth could really have gotten the ball rolling for generations to come if they'd gotten away with it. Seems like it's easier to roll downhill or at least the downhill advocates are prepared to employ methods of indoctrination.

[Skyrad 0]

Ok, so do you have any suggestions of the best way to deal with Wahabisim?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[billvon 3,173]

>Ok, so do you have any suggestions of the best way to deal with Wahabisim?

I'd treat it like we treat the Army of God. Arrest the people who kill doctors. i.e. attack the criminals, not the nuts who buy into that nonsense.

[dorbie 0]

That only works when the nuts are few & far between and when you have good enforcement.

Arresting suicide bombers isn't an option and the problem unfortunately does not solve itself in the way one might hope.

[dorbie 0]

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Ok, so do you have any suggestions of the best way to deal with Wahabisim?

I think you have to shut it down at the source, the problem is not at the tip of the tentacle, it's in the centers of learning and dissemination. You either transform the message at it's source or you eliminate it. That is something we are poorly equipped as a society to accept as a solution.

Even if you did the time to have acted was a few decades ago. This problem has metastasized beyond the point of even difficult solutions.

[Amazon 7]

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I'd treat it like we treat the Army of God. Arrest the people who kill doctors. i.e. attack the criminals, not the nuts who buy into that nonsense.

I think the Bush Family might have a problem with that.... since they have SOO many financial ties to the people who are promulgating the problem in the SAUD Family.