Religion: Problem / Solution

[jakee 1,565]

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>You would like it better if "good" people like Ghandi went to heaven
>and "bad" people like Dahmer went to hell?

Well, if it's true that the Ghandis are going to hell and the Dahmers are going to heaven, I know where I'd rather be.

I see your point, but I've been around a lot of self-righteous people who think their poo doesn't stink. I'd rather be around the guy who knows he is not righteous (regardless of what he has done) and is humble before God, than somebody who thinks God owes them a favor because they were so good.

This just in - "Ghandi arrogant twat, should be more like Dahmer."

We now return to your scheduled programming.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[steveorino 7]

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This just in - "Ghandi arrogant twat, should be more like Dahmer."

We now return to your scheduled programming.

Truthfully, I don't know anything about Dahmer's confessions of Christ. His eternity is not in my hands. Mine is. As I have said here many times, I'm not good despite any good things I have done. Why? Because my measure of "goodness" is not Dahmer, Hitler, you, or even Ghandi. It is Christ. I don't measure up. I'm not depending on my goodness to save me, but rather I lean on the grace of God.

steveOrino

[ExAFO 0]

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This just in - "Ghandi arrogant twat, should be more like Dahmer."

We now return to your scheduled programming.

Truthfully, I don't know anything about Dahmer's confessions of Christ. His eternity is not in my hands. Mine is. As I have said here many times, I'm not good despite any good things I have done. Why? Because my measure of "goodness" is not Dahmer, Hitler, you, or even Ghandi. It is Christ. I don't measure up. I'm not depending on my goodness to save me, but rather I lean on the grace of God.

I like Kittens. They're small and fluffy.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[steveorino 7]

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This just in - "Ghandi arrogant twat, should be more like Dahmer."

We now return to your scheduled programming.

Truthfully, I don't know anything about Dahmer's confessions of Christ. His eternity is not in my hands. Mine is. As I have said here many times, I'm not good despite any good things I have done. Why? Because my measure of "goodness" is not Dahmer, Hitler, you, or even Ghandi. It is Christ. I don't measure up. I'm not depending on my goodness to save me, but rather I lean on the grace of God.

I like Kittens. They're small and fluffy.

Yeah, but they turn into cats!!!

steveOrino

[jakee 1,565]

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This just in - "Ghandi arrogant twat, should be more like Dahmer."

We now return to your scheduled programming.

Truthfully, I don't know anything about Dahmer's confessions of Christ. His eternity is not in my hands. Mine is. As I have said here many times, I'm not good despite any good things I have done. Why? Because my measure of "goodness" is not Dahmer, Hitler, you, or even Ghandi. It is Christ. I don't measure up. I'm not depending on my goodness to save me, but rather I lean on the grace of God.

Let us say for a moment that Dahmer, or any other serial killer you might like to think of, does now truely, absolutely believe in Jesus.

If you were in charge, by what you think is right, who would you rather see go into heaven? Forget God's guidlines, this is your decision - who would you let in?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[steveorino 7]

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Let us say for a moment that Dahmer, or any other serial killer you might like to think of, does now truely, absolutely believe in Jesus.

If you were in charge, by what you think is right, who would you rather see go into heaven? Forget God's guidlines, this is your decision - who would you let in?

If "I" was God? I'd say you get in heaven by being good, and I (God) would determine that. Of course you wouldn't know if you measured up until you got before my throne. That'd be your tough luck because "I" would not sacrifice my children for you, even if I knew they'd rise again.

One of many good reasons I'm not God.

steveOrino

[jakee 1,565]

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Let us say for a moment that Dahmer, or any other serial killer you might like to think of, does now truely, absolutely believe in Jesus.

If you were in charge, by what you think is right, who would you rather see go into heaven? Forget God's guidlines, this is your decision - who would you let in?

If "I" was God? I'd say you get in heaven by being good, and I (God) would determine that. Of course you wouldn't know if you measured up until you got before my throne. That'd be your tough luck because "I" would not sacrifice my children for you, even if I knew they'd rise again.

Not if you were God, if you were as you are now, but you had the power to decide who gets in. Would you be more inclined to admit Dahmer, a serial killer turned devout christian or Gandhi, all round good guy who just happens to be a heathen and false Idolator?

Just go with your instinct.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,080]

>I'd rather be around the guy who knows he is not righteous
> (regardless of what he has done) and is humble before God . . .

Me too. But I'd rather be around people like that because of what they do and whether they are self-righteous or not, not because of the specific words they use when they pray. That's a detail, and really not all that important in the grand scheme of things.

[steveorino 7]

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Let us say for a moment that Dahmer, or any other serial killer you might like to think of, does now truely, absolutely believe in Jesus.

If you were in charge, by what you think is right, who would you rather see go into heaven? Forget God's guidlines, this is your decision - who would you let in?

If "I" was God? I'd say you get in heaven by being good, and I (God) would determine that. Of course you wouldn't know if you measured up until you got before my throne. That'd be your tough luck because "I" would not sacrifice my children for you, even if I knew they'd rise again.

Not if you were God, if you were as you are now, but you had the power to decide who gets in. Would you be more inclined to admit Dahmer, a serial killer turned devout christian or Gandhi, all round good guy who just happens to be a heathen and false Idolator?

Just go with your instinct.

Instinctively? If I am NOT God? I guess I'd make fewer mistakes if I let the ghandi types go in over the "repentant Dahmers" of this world. I'm glad I'm NOT God.

steveOrino

[kallend 2,113]

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This just in - "Ghandi arrogant twat, should be more like Dahmer."

We now return to your scheduled programming.

Truthfully, I don't know anything about Dahmer's confessions of Christ. His eternity is not in my hands. Mine is. As I have said here many times, I'm not good despite any good things I have done. Why? Because my measure of "goodness" is not Dahmer, Hitler, you, or even Ghandi. It is Christ. I don't measure up. I'm not depending on my goodness to save me, but rather I lean on the grace of God.

Let us say for a moment that Dahmer, or any other serial killer you might like to think of, does now truely, absolutely believe in Jesus.

If you were in charge, by what you think is right, who would you rather see go into heaven? Forget God's guidlines, this is your decision - who would you let in?

Why not discuss Karla Faye Tucker - who did become a Christian before GWB signed her death warrant

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,565]

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Let us say for a moment that Dahmer, or any other serial killer you might like to think of, does now truely, absolutely believe in Jesus.

If you were in charge, by what you think is right, who would you rather see go into heaven? Forget God's guidlines, this is your decision - who would you let in?

If "I" was God? I'd say you get in heaven by being good, and I (God) would determine that. Of course you wouldn't know if you measured up until you got before my throne. That'd be your tough luck because "I" would not sacrifice my children for you, even if I knew they'd rise again.

Not if you were God, if you were as you are now, but you had the power to decide who gets in. Would you be more inclined to admit Dahmer, a serial killer turned devout christian or Gandhi, all round good guy who just happens to be a heathen and false Idolator?

Just go with your instinct.

Instinctively? If I am NOT God? I guess I'd make fewer mistakes if I let the ghandi types go in over the "repentant Dahmers" of this world. I'm glad I'm NOT God.

So essentially you disagree with God on who should be allowed into heaven? Interesting.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pajarito 0]

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Why not discuss Karla Faye Tucker - who did become a Christian before GWB signed her death warrant

Just tuned back in… This whole line of discussion is ridiculous. Only God knows your heart…ultimately. One cannot be saved (e.g. be a Christian and not just one in name) without sincere repentance and faith. Do I believe one can be involved in a deathbed conversion? Yes. However, do I think it is very probable or happens very often? No. Karla Faye Tucker may have claimed to be a Christian in the end. I’m sure many do. Whether she was truly saved, however, is questionable. That decision is God’s alone.

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Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. Not every one that says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in your name have cast out devils? And in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:20-23

Anyway, whether she “became a Christian” before being executed is irrelevant. We live in this society and it has laws. Murder has consequences and the death penalty is the law of the land. She received justice here and she will also receive justice where she is going (or already is).

[jakee 1,565]

I wholeheartedly agree. Your notion of judgement is completely ridiculous.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pajarito 0]

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I wholeheartedly agree. Your notion of judgement is completely ridiculous.

It's not my notion.

[steveorino 7]

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So essentially you disagree with God on who should be allowed into heaven? Interesting.

Why is that interesting? You set the rules that I could not have the wisdom and insight of God. You said I was to make my decision instinctively. I seriously doubt without His infinite wisdom that I would make the same decisions God would make on a lot of things. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9

steveOrino

[jarrodh 0]

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Do you feel that religion is more of a problem or a solution?

If youve read any history book that covers that past 2006 years you can clearly see that religion is the problem.

Take the modern suicide bomber for example. Do you think that any sane young man would willingly blow himself up in the middle of a crowded market, without a promise of a glorious afterlife guaranteed by his radical sect?

If you take religion out of this young mans life then he has no reason/desire to kill himself/others as a martyr in the name of Allah. Therefore religion (however radical it may be) is the problem.

It is clear however that if one was to practice the teachings of the Quran, New Testament , or the Torah as a means to enrich ones lives then religion wouldnt be the problem it would be a solution. However since religion has been twisted and manipulated since its beginning it will continue to be the source of some of the worlds many problems, not the solution.

2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!!

[rhys 0]

I would like to add:

If all the religons put together would change the emphasis from respecting the creator to respecting what has been created then there would not be a problem.

This world is being fucked by Christians, athiests, hindus, buddists.... absolutely everyone.

This earth our moon and our sun is what needs to be worshipped. and I think all will agree that without these things life would not exist as we know it. and is therefore the substance and creator of life itself.

How does praying at night for your and others sins, stop the problem that the un nessecary packaging and toxins that you have just disposed of go away?

IT DOESN"T

live life, love life and respect life. IN ALL FORMS not just the Human form.

In conclusuion.

Yes religion is the problem. regardless of the faith.

humans are a mare stich in time and life will be much more abundant once humans are gone.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[philh 0]

"I don't measure up. I'm not depending on my goodness to save me, but rather I lean on the grace of God. "
So you dont measure up to a supposed perfect god who you believ created an imperfect being? Well so what? Why should you measure up? If god creates imperfect being he shouldnt be suprised if they act imperfectly.
The fact that the Christian serial killer gets to heaven but the non christian (insert your conception of god person here) goes to hell shows us that Christiainty (and other mono theistic religions do the same ) favours belief over compassion as its higher moral principle. In other words we dont really care what you do, we care what you believe. Is it any wonder then that people end up killing people and repressing people in the name of religion? This is not a coicindence. It is an extension of this sort of thinking. If the god of mono theists came out and said I dont care if you believe in me or not just dont hurt innocent people we might live in a different world. But the god of mono theists infact says the opposite, more importannt than anything else is belive in me, bow down and worship me. The actions of suicide bombers are a direct result of this philosophy. Its not just limited to Muslim suicide bombers either. If you are a Catholic Inquisitor torturing people to save (in your mind ) their immortal souls your tortute will make sense to you.
Its clear then that religion itself is the problem. its a philosophy that rewards a Christian mass murderer and punishes a non christian man of peace or science or art. So ultimatley the "crime" of non belief is greater than the crime of mass murder in religious thought. If the world sees how awful this is ,it might be a better place.

[pajarito 0]

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The fact that the Christian serial killer gets to heaven

There is no such person.

[philh 0]

Yes there is , here is jeff Dahmers pastors own words:

Jeff was judged not by his faith, but by his crimes. The questioner always seemed to hope I’d answer: “No, he wasn’t sincere.” The questioner seemed to be looking for a way to reject Jeffrey as a brother in Christ instead of seeing him as a sinner who has come to God. The subtext of such questions was simple. They didn’t want to think of Jeff as a brother. Such ungraciousness is contrary to the Christian spirit.

for the whole article read:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/203/story_20399_1.html

[pajarito 0]

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Yes there is , here is jeff Dahmers pastors own words:

Jeff was judged not by his faith, but by his crimes. The questioner always seemed to hope I’d answer: “No, he wasn’t sincere.” The questioner seemed to be looking for a way to reject Jeffrey as a brother in Christ instead of seeing him as a sinner who has come to God. The subtext of such questions was simple. They didn’t want to think of Jeff as a brother. Such ungraciousness is contrary to the Christian spirit.

Baptism is simply a demonstration of obedience to the Word of God. It is an outward sign to the world of the inward change that is claimed by that person to have taken place. Baptism does NOT in and of itself mean that one is saved. Signs of a growing and maturing Christian should follow a true conversion. If not, then one should re-examine themselves. Belief can exist without repentance. However, without repentance, there is no salvation.

Some quotes from the article:

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“I feel very, very bad about the crimes I’ve committed. In fact, I think I should have been put to death by the state for what I did.”

“I agree with you,” I said. “You should have been put to death by the state for the crimes you committed.”

He replied, “If that is true, am I sinning against God by continuing to live?”

“Yes, I admit I’ve thought of suicide. But when I thought I should take my life, I just couldn’t do it,” he confessed. "My main concern is that I do the right thing,“ he replied.

None of the above clarifies whether his sorrow was vertical (e.g. sins against God) and not just horizontal (e.g. wrongs against people). He never says that he sinned against God but simply that he’s sorry for what he’s done. His guilt may very well have been sincere. However, feeling very bad about crimes committed and wrongdoings to others is very different from feeling horrible for crimes committed against God. He should have felt bad about the things he’d done. That still does not pay for his crimes against God.

Even a willingness to “do the right thing” from now on doesn’t cover what’s already been done. Righteousness cannot come from “anything” we do. Only through repentance and faith. I have no idea what Jeffrey may have really meant by what he said in the article and only God knows his heart. I’m just saying that the key signs of vertical repentance and faith in the Savior are not present in the article you referenced.

By the way, what he did disgusts me but I hope that his conversion was sincere.

[philh 0]

So assuming his repentence was sincere is he more likely to go to heaven than a non Christian who hasnt murdered anyone, yes or no?

[pajarito 0]

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So assuming his repentence was sincere is he more likely to go to heaven than a non Christian who hasnt murdered anyone, yes or no?

Repentance & faith are required. Speaking hypothetically about Jeffrey Dahmer is silly and evidence is not shown in your example.

[kallend 2,113]

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So assuming his repentence was sincere is he more likely to go to heaven than a non Christian who hasnt murdered anyone, yes or no?

Repentance & faith are required. Speaking hypothetically about Jeffrey Dahmer is silly and evidence is not shown in your example.

Which is why I suggested Karla Faye Tucker - who apparently DID repent- no hypothetical required.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Zenister 0]

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>You would like it better if "good" people like Ghandi went to heaven
>and "bad" people like Dahmer went to hell?

Well, if it's true that the Ghandis are going to hell and the Dahmers are going to heaven, I know where I'd rather be.

/signed.

if Heaven means having to deal with the MAJORITY of Christians i've met for all Eternity, i'll take Hell as well.. (although there are some few i will miss)

still the 2nd level sounds like a FF'er paradise anyway. obviously God doesnt jump, but Satan does

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.