warpedskydiver 0 #1 January 13, 2007 School, Teen Clash Over Medieval Photo Saturday, January 13, 2007 7:19 AM EST The Associated Press By JUSTIN M. NORTON PORTSMOUTH, R.I. (AP) — Seventeen-year-old Patrick Agin often spends a week whittling a single arrow, and he's learning to make chain mail armor by hand. So when it came time to submit a senior yearbook photo, he selected a snapshot of himself wearing chain mail and slinging a prop sword over his shoulder. Portsmouth High School rejected the photo, citing a "zero tolerance policy" for weapons, and Agin and his family sued, claiming the school was violating his right to free speech. But Agin and others who spend their free time sword fighting and feasting on medieval-style meals also wonder why the school would discourage his passion for a hobby they say offers tens of thousands of people a way to learn about history through hands-on experience. "It's no different from wanting to appear in a Boy Scout uniform," said Tamara Griggs, a spokeswoman for the Society for Creative Anachronism, a group of 35,000 dues-paying members that stage mock battles, learn arts like calligraphy and conduct demonstrations in shopping malls. Agin belongs to the organization. During the winter, the society holds one-on-one combat events at churches and schools. In better weather, regional groups called "kingdoms" rent campgrounds and stage epic battles with as many as 1,000 soldiers per side. Portsmouth Principal Robert Littlefield said allowing a student to brandish a weapon in his senior portrait was against school policies. The school isn't obligated to provide a forum for every student's outside interests, he said. "I don't see our action as discouraging anyone's hobby," Littlefield said. "I don't see our yearbook as a vehicle where we guarantee everyone an opportunity to broadcast their hobby to our audience." The ACLU, which filed the suit in federal court in December, calls the zero tolerance policy inconsistent. It points out that the school's mascot, a patriot, is sometimes shown carrying a weapon. A federal judge asked the state education commissioner to offer a recommendation in the case. He is expected to do so within weeks. Agin came to the society through his mother, Heidi Farrington, who sews and sells re-enactment clothing to medieval fans. "They really appreciate people researching things, whether it's textiles or armor or food or any of the skills that would have been applicable," Farrington said. She said she learned to spin wool through the organization. She said the high school's decision sends a bad message about free thinking and individuality and could conceivably lead the school to ban masterpieces like Shakespeare's "Macbeth," which depicts a fatal stabbing. "The schools have gotten so into standardization that they are starting to push it on the kids," she said. Ed Morrill of New York, a regional director whose society alter ego is Viscount Edward Zifran of Gendy, called the group "a very good place for someone to come and learn something new." Morrill, who began attending society events in 1973, said a lot of people don't understand the group's appeal, but he does: "It's not your father's organization. It's something that's different but something that's socially acceptable." Society member Nicole Toscano understands the passion that would make someone pose for the yearbook in armor. The student at Simmons College in Boston joined the society at age 7 and works out to keep fit for mock sword fights. "It's just like any other sport or any martial art. I enjoy doing it just like I was playing football," said Toscano, who also practices calligraphy. Agin, who is considering joining the military after graduating this year, said he'll likely opt for a pink tuxedo, not armor, to wear to his senior prom. In the meantime, he plans to take part in more re-enactments. "I've actually been talking to a knight to become a squire," he said. Quote Somehow I would not be suprised if the school district in this case would not object if he appeared in a dress and belonged to the glory hole club, but a sword? OMG he must be stopped!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #2 January 13, 2007 QuoteSomehow I would not be suprised if the school district in this case would not object if he appeared in a dress and belonged to the glory hole club, but a sword? OMG he must be stopped!!! Hmm seemed to have worked for J.Edgar Hoover Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #3 January 13, 2007 Yes it did, he sucked his way to the top! hehehe FDR and he had "a thing going on" Just makes ya wanna hear "Me and Mrs. Jones" and puke huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #4 January 13, 2007 Was "Hoover" an assumed name perhaps? Name de plume? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #5 January 13, 2007 QuoteThe ACLU, which filed the suit in federal court in December, calls the zero tolerance policy inconsistent. It points out that the school's mascot, a patriot, is sometimes shown carrying a weapon. Thats just funny. One point for the ACLU IMO. Zero for the school Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #6 January 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe ACLU, which filed the suit in federal court in December, calls the zero tolerance policy inconsistent. It points out that the school's mascot, a patriot, is sometimes shown carrying a weapon. Thats just funny. One point for the ACLU IMO. Zero for the school I agree. Most "zero tolerance" policies have no place in reality.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #7 January 13, 2007 Reminds me of the days when my older daughter was in Drama Club, she was cast as one of the Sheriff of Nottingham's lackies in a Robin Hood play. They were professionally coached in the art of stage combat, i.e. how to put on a convincing swordfight while hopefully not hurting each other too badly with stage swords made of metal tubing. I wonder if this idiot high school would even allow such a play, or would the kids have to "fight" empty handed, Monty Python style ? Or would Robin and the Sheriff's men have some kind of "Diversity Day" to celebrate their differences with some kind of sissy dance around a maypole ? Sounds like more idiot school officials on the loose, they can't find useful jobs so they take it out on the kids. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance for our liberties - and the kids are learning it. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #8 January 13, 2007 see attached... witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #9 January 13, 2007 QuoteReminds me of the days when my older daughter was in Drama Club, she was cast as one of the Sheriff of Nottingham's lackies in a Robin Hood play. They were professionally coached in the art of stage combat, i.e. how to put on a convincing swordfight while hopefully not hurting each other too badly with stage swords made of metal tubing. I wonder if this idiot high school would even allow such a play, or would the kids have to "fight" empty handed, Monty Python style ? Or would Robin and the Sheriff's men have some kind of "Diversity Day" to celebrate their differences with some kind of sissy dance around a maypole ? Sounds like more idiot school officials on the loose, they can't find useful jobs so they take it out on the kids. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance for our liberties - and the kids are learning it. The schools haven't gotten THAT intolerant. I believe most still allow prop weapons in stage productions. When I was in 6th grade, we did a production of Robin Hood, and I brought two REAL swords to school for use as props. I'm pretty sure that would not fly anymore. };^)I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nanook 1 #10 January 13, 2007 I wonder if that school will let a guy dressed up as Mr. Spock carrying a phaser submit his photo._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,150 #11 January 13, 2007 Quote Sounds like more idiot school officials on the loose, they can't find useful jobs so they take it out on the kids. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance for our liberties - and the kids are learning it. In general, school policies like zero tolerance come from the elected school boards, not from the principal or teachers. Teachers who violate policy can be dismissed, even if they have tenure, and even if they do it on the grounds of "common sense". Would you sacrifice your job over a kid's desire to wear fancy dress?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #12 January 14, 2007 QuoteI wonder if that school will let a guy dressed up as Mr. Spock carrying a phaser submit his photo. No because that is the same getup the Principal had on in his picture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #13 January 14, 2007 QuoteDuring the winter, the society holds one-on-one combat events at churches and schools. In better weather, regional groups called "kingdoms" rent campgrounds and stage epic battles with as many as 1,000 soldiers per side. I wanna roll with... the gangstas... But so far... they all think I'm too white and nerdy. Think I’m just too white and nerdy... Think I’m just too white and nerdy... I’m just too white and nerdy. Really really white and nerdy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nanook 1 #14 January 14, 2007 QuoteNo because that is the same getup the Principal had on in his picture. OOOOHH!! This is a Dork-conspiracy!! I've seen this thing happen between Trekkies and Star-wars types. Gets ugly. Nothing says "Gosh, I really want to step over this ledge with this rope around my neck." like being caught between two nerds from different "Dimensions" at each other for dork-dominance._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nanook 1 #15 January 14, 2007 Seriously though, I think this is bullshit. This is a lifestyle for a lot of those SCA types. Let him have his photo that best represents him. These schools are getting a little too sensitive._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites takeflightAZ 0 #16 January 15, 2007 This might be another one of those ever-increasing instances where an administration, perhaps through a fear driven "zero tolerance" policy creates a scandal that otherwise wouldn't have been one. I bet you a buck the rather un-PC mascot of this school (a Patriot) will someday also be changed by the PC horde as well, ultimately change it to something very PC-safe but historically/culturally meaningless like the "Portsmouth High Ravens" or something. Zzzz. Just a hunch."Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be overcome." - Samuel Johnson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #17 January 15, 2007 Not saying I support the school on this one, the kid is doing something that has a learning value to it, but to play the devil's advocate, imagine the door that this would open for someone who wanted to express their passion for a less constructive hobby. I'm sure there is a kid in this high school aspiring to be the next great ganster rapper who is just itching to submit a photo which could be the cover of his first album, a pic with him holding an uzi, there's plenty of other examples that come to mind, this was just the first. I think both sides need to meet in the middle on this one, the no tolerance policy is just too much for anyone's good.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,150 #18 January 15, 2007 QuoteThis might be another one of those ever-increasing instances where an administration, perhaps through a fear driven "zero tolerance" policy creates a scandal that otherwise wouldn't have been one. I bet you a buck the rather un-PC mascot of this school (a Patriot) will someday also be changed by the PC horde as well, ultimately change it to something very PC-safe but historically/culturally meaningless like the "Portsmouth High Ravens" or something. Zzzz. Just a hunch.[.shocked] If you think about it for a moment you will realize that zero tolerance policies have nothing to do with PC and everything to do with school boards pre-emptively defending themselves from lawsuits brought by parents.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bch7773 0 #19 January 15, 2007 QuoteNot saying I support the school on this one, the kid is doing something that has a learning value to it, but to play the devil's advocate, imagine the door that this would open for someone who wanted to express their passion for a less constructive hobby. I'm sure there is a kid in this high school aspiring to be the next great ganster rapper who is just itching to submit a photo which could be the cover of his first album, a pic with him holding an uzi, there's plenty of other examples that come to mind, this was just the first. I think both sides need to meet in the middle on this one, the no tolerance policy is just too much for anyone's good. thats what I thought. A picture banning a sword is stupid, but you obviously have to draw the line somewhere... if a picture of a sword, then allow a picture of a toy gun, then allow a picture of a real gun, then allow a picture of you pointing a real gun at your head. Then some idiot at your school commits suicide with a gun to the head and the parents try to sue the school for $20 billion. Where do you draw the line? Somebody will probably find a picture of someone "dressing gangsta" with a glock not appropriate for school, so how do you argue thats not ok, and a sword is ok? MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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Amazon 7 #2 January 13, 2007 QuoteSomehow I would not be suprised if the school district in this case would not object if he appeared in a dress and belonged to the glory hole club, but a sword? OMG he must be stopped!!! Hmm seemed to have worked for J.Edgar Hoover Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #3 January 13, 2007 Yes it did, he sucked his way to the top! hehehe FDR and he had "a thing going on" Just makes ya wanna hear "Me and Mrs. Jones" and puke huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #4 January 13, 2007 Was "Hoover" an assumed name perhaps? Name de plume? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #5 January 13, 2007 QuoteThe ACLU, which filed the suit in federal court in December, calls the zero tolerance policy inconsistent. It points out that the school's mascot, a patriot, is sometimes shown carrying a weapon. Thats just funny. One point for the ACLU IMO. Zero for the school Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #6 January 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe ACLU, which filed the suit in federal court in December, calls the zero tolerance policy inconsistent. It points out that the school's mascot, a patriot, is sometimes shown carrying a weapon. Thats just funny. One point for the ACLU IMO. Zero for the school I agree. Most "zero tolerance" policies have no place in reality.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #7 January 13, 2007 Reminds me of the days when my older daughter was in Drama Club, she was cast as one of the Sheriff of Nottingham's lackies in a Robin Hood play. They were professionally coached in the art of stage combat, i.e. how to put on a convincing swordfight while hopefully not hurting each other too badly with stage swords made of metal tubing. I wonder if this idiot high school would even allow such a play, or would the kids have to "fight" empty handed, Monty Python style ? Or would Robin and the Sheriff's men have some kind of "Diversity Day" to celebrate their differences with some kind of sissy dance around a maypole ? Sounds like more idiot school officials on the loose, they can't find useful jobs so they take it out on the kids. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance for our liberties - and the kids are learning it. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #8 January 13, 2007 see attached... witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #9 January 13, 2007 QuoteReminds me of the days when my older daughter was in Drama Club, she was cast as one of the Sheriff of Nottingham's lackies in a Robin Hood play. They were professionally coached in the art of stage combat, i.e. how to put on a convincing swordfight while hopefully not hurting each other too badly with stage swords made of metal tubing. I wonder if this idiot high school would even allow such a play, or would the kids have to "fight" empty handed, Monty Python style ? Or would Robin and the Sheriff's men have some kind of "Diversity Day" to celebrate their differences with some kind of sissy dance around a maypole ? Sounds like more idiot school officials on the loose, they can't find useful jobs so they take it out on the kids. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance for our liberties - and the kids are learning it. The schools haven't gotten THAT intolerant. I believe most still allow prop weapons in stage productions. When I was in 6th grade, we did a production of Robin Hood, and I brought two REAL swords to school for use as props. I'm pretty sure that would not fly anymore. };^)I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #10 January 13, 2007 I wonder if that school will let a guy dressed up as Mr. Spock carrying a phaser submit his photo._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #11 January 13, 2007 Quote Sounds like more idiot school officials on the loose, they can't find useful jobs so they take it out on the kids. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance for our liberties - and the kids are learning it. In general, school policies like zero tolerance come from the elected school boards, not from the principal or teachers. Teachers who violate policy can be dismissed, even if they have tenure, and even if they do it on the grounds of "common sense". Would you sacrifice your job over a kid's desire to wear fancy dress?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #12 January 14, 2007 QuoteI wonder if that school will let a guy dressed up as Mr. Spock carrying a phaser submit his photo. No because that is the same getup the Principal had on in his picture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #13 January 14, 2007 QuoteDuring the winter, the society holds one-on-one combat events at churches and schools. In better weather, regional groups called "kingdoms" rent campgrounds and stage epic battles with as many as 1,000 soldiers per side. I wanna roll with... the gangstas... But so far... they all think I'm too white and nerdy. Think I’m just too white and nerdy... Think I’m just too white and nerdy... I’m just too white and nerdy. Really really white and nerdy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #14 January 14, 2007 QuoteNo because that is the same getup the Principal had on in his picture. OOOOHH!! This is a Dork-conspiracy!! I've seen this thing happen between Trekkies and Star-wars types. Gets ugly. Nothing says "Gosh, I really want to step over this ledge with this rope around my neck." like being caught between two nerds from different "Dimensions" at each other for dork-dominance._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #15 January 14, 2007 Seriously though, I think this is bullshit. This is a lifestyle for a lot of those SCA types. Let him have his photo that best represents him. These schools are getting a little too sensitive._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
takeflightAZ 0 #16 January 15, 2007 This might be another one of those ever-increasing instances where an administration, perhaps through a fear driven "zero tolerance" policy creates a scandal that otherwise wouldn't have been one. I bet you a buck the rather un-PC mascot of this school (a Patriot) will someday also be changed by the PC horde as well, ultimately change it to something very PC-safe but historically/culturally meaningless like the "Portsmouth High Ravens" or something. Zzzz. Just a hunch."Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be overcome." - Samuel Johnson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #17 January 15, 2007 Not saying I support the school on this one, the kid is doing something that has a learning value to it, but to play the devil's advocate, imagine the door that this would open for someone who wanted to express their passion for a less constructive hobby. I'm sure there is a kid in this high school aspiring to be the next great ganster rapper who is just itching to submit a photo which could be the cover of his first album, a pic with him holding an uzi, there's plenty of other examples that come to mind, this was just the first. I think both sides need to meet in the middle on this one, the no tolerance policy is just too much for anyone's good.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #18 January 15, 2007 QuoteThis might be another one of those ever-increasing instances where an administration, perhaps through a fear driven "zero tolerance" policy creates a scandal that otherwise wouldn't have been one. I bet you a buck the rather un-PC mascot of this school (a Patriot) will someday also be changed by the PC horde as well, ultimately change it to something very PC-safe but historically/culturally meaningless like the "Portsmouth High Ravens" or something. Zzzz. Just a hunch.[.shocked] If you think about it for a moment you will realize that zero tolerance policies have nothing to do with PC and everything to do with school boards pre-emptively defending themselves from lawsuits brought by parents.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #19 January 15, 2007 QuoteNot saying I support the school on this one, the kid is doing something that has a learning value to it, but to play the devil's advocate, imagine the door that this would open for someone who wanted to express their passion for a less constructive hobby. I'm sure there is a kid in this high school aspiring to be the next great ganster rapper who is just itching to submit a photo which could be the cover of his first album, a pic with him holding an uzi, there's plenty of other examples that come to mind, this was just the first. I think both sides need to meet in the middle on this one, the no tolerance policy is just too much for anyone's good. thats what I thought. A picture banning a sword is stupid, but you obviously have to draw the line somewhere... if a picture of a sword, then allow a picture of a toy gun, then allow a picture of a real gun, then allow a picture of you pointing a real gun at your head. Then some idiot at your school commits suicide with a gun to the head and the parents try to sue the school for $20 billion. Where do you draw the line? Somebody will probably find a picture of someone "dressing gangsta" with a glock not appropriate for school, so how do you argue thats not ok, and a sword is ok? MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
