How can we stop Bush?

[Amazon 7]

Actually yes.. I know it quite well.. the difference is how it was used under the differing administrations.

They quit using it a while back because there are newer better goodies out there now.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/carnivore.htm

You may have heard about Carnivore, a controversial program developed by the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to give the agency access to the online/e-mail activities of suspected criminals. For many, it is eerily reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." Although Carnivore was abandoned by the FBI in favor of commercially available eavesdropping software by January 2005, the program that once promised to renew the FBI's specific influence in the world of computer-communications monitoring is nonetheless intriguing in its structure and application.

[Andy9o8 2]

FWIW, if you really have such concerns about being targeted as a dissident, it may behoove you to remove your avatar and sanitize your profile. This is a very public forum, after all.

[Amazon 7]

DUDE.. dont you know there is an evil commie under every rock???

[kallend 2,151]

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Does the word "Carnivore" sound familiar?

Now that you know a bit about what Carnivore was, let's take a look at how it worked:
The FBI has a reasonable suspicion that someone is engaged in criminal activities and requests a court order to view the suspect's online activity.

A court grants the request for a full content-wiretap of e-mail traffic only and issues an order.
A term used in telephone surveillance, "content-wiretap" means that everything in the packet can be captured and used. The other type of wiretap is a trap-and-trace, which means that the FBI can only capture the destination information, such as the e-mail account of a message being sent out or the Web-site address that the suspect is visiting. A reverse form of trap-and-trace, called pen-register, tracks where e-mail to the suspect is coming from or where visits to a suspect's Web site originate.


The FBI contacts the suspect's ISP and requests a copy of the back-up files of the suspect's activity.

The ISP does not maintain customer-activity data as part of its back-up.

The FBI sets up a Carnivore computer at the ISP to monitor the suspect's activity. The computer consists of:
A Pentium III Windows NT/2000 system with 128 megabytes (MB) of RAM
A commercial communications software application
A custom C++ application that works in conjunction with the commercial program above to provide the packet sniffing and filtering
A type of physical lockout system that requires a special passcode to access the computer (This keeps anyone but the FBI from physically accessing the Carnivore system.)
A network isolation device that makes the Carnivore system invisible to anything else on the network (This prevents anyone from hacking into the system from another computer.)
A 2-gigabyte (GB) Iomega Jaz drive for storing the captured data (The Jaz drive uses 2-GB removable cartridges that can be swapped out as easily as a floppy disk.)

The FBI configures the Carnivore software with the IP address of the suspect so that Carnivore will only capture packets from this particular location. It ignores all other packets.

Carnivore copies all of the packets from the suspect's system without impeding the flow of the network traffic.

Once the copies are made, they go through a filter that only keeps the e-mail packets. The program determines what the packets contain based on the protocol of the packet. For example, all e-mail packets use the Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP).

The e-mail packets are saved to the Jaz cartridge.

Once every day or two, an FBI agent visits the ISP and swaps out the Jaz cartridge. The agent takes the retrieved cartridge and puts it in a container that is dated and sealed. If the seal is broken, the person breaking it must sign, date and reseal it -- otherwise, the cartridge can be considered "compromised."

The surveillance cannot continue for more than a month without an extension from the court. Once complete, the FBI removes the system from the ISP.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

How about Executive Order 12139... or even more interesting, EO 12949?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[idrankwhat 0]

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Kinda like your Bush fetish, no?

No. Not even close. If I were to attack Bush in the manner that Clinton was attacked I'd be going on about his past drug habits, his business failures, his eyes, his inability to make a coherent statement, his wife murdering her ex-boyfriend, his VP's defrauding of the taxpayer (actually that's a valid one so scratch that)....and then I'd start making stuff up. Bush's list of f ups has serious consequences to both the US and to the rest of world. Too bad it took so long for 1/2 of his supporters to realize that his presidency was a mistake.

[Amazon 7]

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The FBI sets up a Carnivore computer at the ISP to monitor the suspect's activity.

And you tape a copy of the warrant to it.. and DO NOT TOUCH the damn thing



OH and as far as Mikes Executive orders go.. notice.. THEY ARE ON PAPER.. not some secret bullshit that they just go do because King George WANTS it.

[mnealtx 0]

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A court grants the request for a full content-wiretap of e-mail traffic only and issues an order.

The surveillance cannot continue for more than a month without an extension from the court. Once complete, the FBI removes the system from the ISP.

Which, of course, is why Janet Reno had a warrant for the wiretaps on Aldrich Ames' home... oh, that's right...she didn't.

I suppose that's why Gorelick testified to the Intelligence Committee in 1994, where she said this:

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The Department of Justice has consistently taken the position that the Fourth Amendment requires all searches to be reasonable, including those conducted for foreign intelligence purposes in the United States or against U.S. persons abroad. For the reasons I just mentioned, however, we believe that the warrant clause of the Fourth Amendment is inapplicable to such searches. We are satisfied, therefore, that Attorney General approval of foreign intelligence searches pursuant to the President’s delegation of authority in Executive order 12333 meets the requirements of the Constitution.

Pre-FISA case law relating to electronic surveillance in the Fifth, Ninth, Third, and Fourth Circuits have confirmed this view. Additionally, when the Supreme Court determined that warrant requirements applied to electronic surveillance for domestic intelligence purposes in the Keith case, it specifically declined to apply this holding to foreign powers or their agents.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Zipp0 1]

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FWIW, if you really have such concerns about being targeted as a dissident, it may behoove you to remove your avatar and sanitize your profile. This is a very public forum, after all.

Well, if they go after my avatar, Johnny Depp will soon lose his job... LOL

This was all a huge trolling expedition anyway. I work as a Wal Mart greeter.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Well, if they go after my avatar, Johnny Depp will soon lose his job... LOL

And quite appropriate for this thread, a real exercise in fear and loathing

[kallend 2,151]

Can we take it, then, that you approve of warrantless domestic eavesdropping on US citizens?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DaVinci 0]

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WHEN an administration goes outside the law.... wiretaps.. domestic surveilance....not following the will of the WILL of the people.. then the government deserves to be slapped down.. FAST and HARD.

Will of the people is not a law.

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WHEN an administration goes outside the law.... wiretaps.. domestic surveilance....LYING UNDER OATH... then the government deserves to be slapped down.. FAST and HARD.

But you defended lying under oath..Saying it was just a blow job. But it was still lying under oath and still illegal. And unlike all your other claims it was proven to be true, not just speculation. So either be for the law, or actually state your true opinion which is for it when you feel like it.

[mnealtx 0]

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Can we take it, then, that you approve of warrantless domestic eavesdropping on US citizens?

Nope...just showing, like usual, that BOTH sides do it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DaVinci 0]

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Considering my job (goverment) I am afraid to protest. I am sure that with the present administration I would be photographed, identified, and then told I lost my access, and am no longer needed.

I wish I didn't like my job, the benefits, and job security......

Then you do not care enough. You trade security for standing up for what your believe. Frankly I think several members of Congress did the same thing.

[Amazon 7]

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Nope...just showing, like usual, that BOTH sides do it.

Clinton surveilance.. BAD...
Bush Massive surveillance andsmear campaigns agains his political foes..... GOOOD

[sundevil777 102]

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But you defended lying under oath..Saying it was just a blow job. But it was still lying under oath and still illegal. And unlike all your other claims it was proven to be true, not just speculation. So either be for the law, or actually state your true opinion which is for it when you feel like it.

And it wasn't just that he lied about getting a blowjob, the important thing is that he was asked the question because of an investigation regarding sexual misconduct with another woman. I think there was some witness tampering going on also.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kallend 2,151]

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Can we take it, then, that you approve of warrantless domestic eavesdropping on US citizens?

Nope...just showing, like usual, that BOTH sides do it.

Let's see your PROOF that Reno violated FISA. Bush has admitted that his administration does.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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70% of Americans do not want the escalation in Iraq planned by the President.

Congressional Democrats and many Republicans have come out against the plan. It has been called reckless and incorrect.

The military commanders on the ground, who Bush pledged to listen to, said that more troops were not the answer. They have now been replaced, and ignored.

The Iraq study group, a bipartisan effort to find answers to these questions, has been mostly ignored.

The President has all but promised military action in the very near future against Iran and Syria, and has sent a carrier battle group into the Persian Gulf to back his rhetoric.

Given these facts, and the fact that congress seems afraid, unwilling, or unable to act, what can be done to stop this madness?

Can't, and that is as it should be according to the constitution.

I for one am glad he is the President (for this topic anyway) The Churchhill of our time I think

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SpeedRacer 1]

Except that Churchill devoted his country's military to fighting the enemy who had actually bombed Britain. slight difference there.

Speed Racer
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[rushmc 23]

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Except that Churchill devoted his country's military to fighting the enemy who had actually bombed Britain. slight difference there.

No difference for my point. Churchhill was lambasted early on. He turned out to be correct.


Bush is right here. The Islamofacists are going to keep trying to kill us. Going into Iraq has not changed that.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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>How can we stop Bush?

Vote for someone else next time.

Whatever sad consequences his folly will have for our country and our military, at least it's a godsend to someone - the democrats. At this point Ted Kennedy could run for president and win on the simple platform "I'm not Bush."

The problem is that he wouldn't be running against Bush. As bad as the Administration has performed, I'm still looking for the Democrat that can take advantage. I guess Clinton came out of relative obscurity, so it could repeat, but beating McCain may be a tall order.

[livendive 8]

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During the Vietnam war, Americans took to the streets en masse. A generation later, nobody has the balls to do that anymore. In a democracy, people tend to get the government they deserve.

That. We, the American populace, have become pussified where our government is concerned and a power hungry fucktard like Bush is what we deserve for it. In a perfect world, he'd choke on another cracker and we'd get an actual leader, someone with the wisdom to heal both our foreign and domestic ills, but in the real world we'd likely just get a different fucktard.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[kelpdiver 2]

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During the Vietnam war, Americans took to the streets en masse. A generation later, nobody has the balls to do that anymore. In a democracy, people tend to get the government they deserve.

I can't swing a dead cat without running into a vigil of sorts. Of course, here it's singing to the choir, so close to a waste of time.

I can't figure out the logic behind Bush's move to upsize his disaster. possible theories:

1- make it really bad now, so it looks better in comparison in December when the election cycle begins in earnest.
2- force Pelosi and the Democrats to kill his move, with the hope that they will then be blamed for the ongoing mess.

[rushmc 23]

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During the Vietnam war, Americans took to the streets en masse. A generation later, nobody has the balls to do that anymore. In a democracy, people tend to get the government they deserve.

I can't swing a dead cat without running into a vigil of sorts. Of course, here it's singing to the choir, so close to a waste of time.

I can't figure out the logic behind Bush's move to upsize his disaster. possible theories:

1- make it really bad now, so it looks better in comparison in December when the election cycle begins in earnest.
2- force Pelosi and the Democrats to kill his move, with the hope that they will then be blamed for the ongoing mess.

How about because it is the right thing to do?

The major violence over there is in a very small part of the country. (where the media likes to go) the rest of the country is realativily stable and calm. While there have been spikes the trend for attacks and violence have been dropping for both US and Iraqis. One place really left to clean up so why not go and do it?

Leaving is not an option at this point. Not going at all would have been a long term error in judgement IMO


Flame on!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,151]

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I for one am glad he is the President (for this topic anyway) The Churchhill of our time I think

Winnie must be spinning in his grave at the thought.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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