StreetScooby 5 #1 January 11, 2007 Islam has yet to have its reformation. If the troop increase in Bagdahd is successful in restricting the Maqtada(sp?) sect to a purely political stance, that reformation may occur. Without doubt, it will be violent in the near term, and we'll all be involved whether we want to be or not. Thoughts and/or Comments?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #2 January 11, 2007 Increasing troop levels in Baghdad may force a reformation of Islam? Sorry, I don't see it. More occupiers/harsher measures will, if anything, reinforce the claims of the radicals that we are invaders, not liberators. That will tend to rally the more violent extremists to the anti-US side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #3 January 11, 2007 Putting pressure on Muqtada Al Sadr and forcing him into a purely political stance would make little difference, he is nothing more than a face man for a much bigger power. The militia that carries his name however is responsible for a good portion of the violence goin on in Baghdad and they have been hiding behind the political screen for a while. Last time I was there we weren't allowed to touch them unless we took direct fire from them, we always found them doing all kinds of things but were always turned back by higher. Al Sadr is just playing the game to keep us off his back, it strikes me as funny though that someone who is only trying to act in a political sense would bring top insurgent cell leaders into his mosques to have meetings, or was the stack of weapons I pulled off his cell leaders when I rolled into one of their prayer time meetings actually political tools disguised as weapons?History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #4 January 11, 2007 If the Moqtada militia is not disarmed, then the Saudis are going to start funding the Sunni insurgency. It will be violent, in the near term.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #5 January 11, 2007 QuoteIncreasing troop levels in Baghdad may force a reformation of Islam? Sorry, I don't see it. More occupiers/harsher measures will, if anything, reinforce the claims of the radicals that we are invaders, not liberators. That will tend to rally the more violent extremists to the anti-US side. ___________________________________ Very insightful! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #6 January 12, 2007 QuoteIf the Moqtada militia is not disarmed, then the Saudis are going to start funding the Sunni insurgency. It will be violent, in the near term. Start? hahahahahaha Too late my friend, it has been going on for some time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #7 January 12, 2007 Well said bill! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #8 January 12, 2007 Quote Increasing troop levels in Baghdad may force a reformation of Islam? Sorry, I don't see it. More occupiers/harsher measures will, if anything, reinforce the claims of the radicals that we are invaders, not liberators. That will tend to rally the more violent extremists to the anti-US side. My point is - Islam needs an internal reformation, badly. That is may potentially happen via a "civil war" between Sunnis and Shias. Hopefully not, since that will impact just about everyone on the planet. Right now, it looks like we're on this path. If we don't disarm Moqtada, the Saudis have said they're going to fully support the Sunni insurgency (they told Cheney this when he went over for his last visit). By increasing US troop levels, the Shia militias are either going to participate in politics, or pick up guns and start shooting alot more. If they do not disarm, it's going to become very bloody. Eventually, the Sunnis and Shias need to have some sort of reconciliation. Probably after they get tired of killing each other.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #9 January 12, 2007 What you speak of is the real think tank liquid.The word on the street- this is what the politicians should be listening to. Not the crap rhetoric and political posturing in Washington. Question me this; What would be a good strategy to convince Al Sadr and the militias that the insugency is the real enemy of a viable, bearable, and prosperous future for themselves and their country? Do The Militants even have a concept of stability? obviously like most factions, I assume they just want control. Do they even give a shit about a better life or are they focused only on martyrdom the afterlife or the spread of Islam? What do the Militants want which could be used as a bargaining chip besides blood? I ask because sitting here in my warm house with good food and little or no violence outside, like most Americans I need information from the street to pressure the politicians with. good luck... stay low...Thanks for doing the job..Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #10 January 12, 2007 Excellent questions... Quote What would be a good strategy to convince Al Sadr and the militias that the insugency is the real enemy of a viable, bearable, and prosperous future for themselves and their country? It's hard to have rational discussions with poor, uneducated people. Quote Do The Militants even have a concept of stability? obviously like most factions, I assume they just want control. Yep, they come from a culture where bullies are allowed to win. Quote Do they even give a shit about a better life or are they focused only on martyrdom the afterlife or the spread of Islam? I think they're focused on martyrdom, not improving their current life, or the lives of their family members. Quote What do the Militants want which could be used as a bargaining chip besides blood? Islam does not want to live in peace with the rest of the world. I think that's being clearly demonstrated. Quote good luck... stay low...Thanks for doing the job.. Agreed. GQ_jumper thanks for defending our country.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #11 January 12, 2007 yes well thankyou for your opinions, but I am looking for not necessarily classified information from U.S. soldiers regarding the relationship between the sects and the insurgents which I think is the key to unraveling support for the insurgency. Once the insurgents are isolated and have no support or credibility they will loose their place in Iraq. likewise the non combatant residents of Iraq might stop hiding them. Everybody wants something, what do the Sunnis and Shia want?Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #12 January 12, 2007 Quote My point is - Islam needs an internal reformation, ... Eventually, the Sunnis and Shias need to have some sort of reconciliation. Probably after they get tired of killing each other. Or when they unite against the US. The problem isn't Islam, it's the Islamic extremists. Unfortunately our administration is doing everything in its power to appear to add validity to bin Laden's claims. There may be an "Islamic reformation" but I think it may look more like mainstream Islam migrating towards the fringe. 2008 can't come soon enough. We desperately need a diplomat. Anyone else catch this latest asswhoopin' that Olberman dealt out? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16583889/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
