Just because people like to whine

[billvon 3,132]

Sorry, should have put a smiley in it, but I hate those things.

[Butters 0]

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>My friend was flying out of Denver that day and when his flight got
>cancelled, he rented a car (a sedan I believe) and drove back to CA.

[rant on]
That's exactly the point! He saved himself, instead of waiting for the "nanny state" to save him. Why didn't those Katrina refugees just rent cars, drive to Dallas and save themselves? Why did they have to wait for someone to come help them?
[rant off]

Bill, do you really think the majority of the residents in the 9th ward have a credit card? (usually necessary to rent a car) or are you just yanking my chain?

After talking to a Houston, Texas resident this past week it sounded like the people that were displaced by Hurricane Katrina had plenty of weapons. Maybe they should start a weapons for cash program.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[billvon 3,132]

>Texas resident this past week it sounded like the people that
>were displaced by Hurricane Katrina had plenty of weapons.

Good point. They could have just hunted deer and lived on them for a while.

[Butters 0]

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>Texas resident this past week it sounded like the people that
>were displaced by Hurricane Katrina had plenty of weapons.

Good point. They could have just hunted deer and lived on them for a while.

Don't you read anything in the Speakers Corner ... guns are bad ... hunting is bad ...

PS: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16580807/

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Michele 1]

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Bill, do you really think the majority of the residents in the 9th ward have a credit card? (usually necessary to rent a car) or are you just yanking my chain?

Nope, he's trying to yank my chain. Which is peurile at best...but whatever.

As someone who has been through natural disasters (in the form of EQ's, quite a few times), I would think that preparations, evac plans, and if warning is given, a way to implement those plans (unlike EQ's...), I suspect I'd've left the area. But hey, I guess that's because I make so much money (last year's income: grand total: $0. Not even welfare). Or maybe it's because I am white (again, I don't understand the connection...). Or perhaps it's because I've been through them, and understand the aftermath of it, and how much fun it is to be in the city (NOT....reference the wonderful '92 riots...).

Apparently, I am to be castigated because I'm white. Or because, being white, I obviously have money (the same fallacy used in all blacks are poor...). Or maybe it's because I have the attitude (you can thank my liberal democrat Dad for it) that I take care of myself; only in the very worst situations do I accept help, and never from the government, as they are likely to not be there...).

Hrm. Good grief. I should have an attitude of entitlement because I'm white - after all, all white people are rich, right? So where the fuck is mine???

LOL, I'm going back to school to earn mine...not so that the gubmint can hand it to me. And that has nothing to do with my skin color...nor location.

And Mike, we are not allowed to criticize people if they're black, mexican, asian - or anything other than white. Didn't you read the racism memo? Only white folk can be criticized...sorta like only the US can be criticized for the ills of the world. Same sort of thing. So don't criticize anyone of any other color than white 'cause you'll be labeled a racist...even if you're totally correct in your criticism and it was not based on color in the first place.

And with that, I'm off to tackle some homework...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[downwardspiral 0]

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Sorry, should have put a smiley in it, but I hate those things.

lol I thought your reply was serious. I thought,"no way...Bill must be drunk or fell of his electric bike again."

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[billvon 3,132]

>Or maybe it's because I am white . . .

Why does it always have to devolve to race? I don't care what race the people in Denver or New Orleans are. I am glad the people in Denver did not experience the sort of widespread destruction that the people in New Orleans did. If they did, there would be the same sort of national outcry.

>Apparently, I am to be castigated because I'm white.

Michele, PLEASE stop playing the race card. Or start another thread about the subjugation you're experiencing. We're talking about national disasters, not race.

>Hrm. Good grief. I should have an attitude of entitlement because I'm white . . .

See above.

This has NOTHING TO DO with race. Again, if your home were destroyed, and the roads were gone, and you had no food or water, then you would not have made it through your own personal "natural disasters" as well as you did - no matter what color you are.

So please stop talking about New Orleans as if the racial composition of the place is what caused the disaster. The city was full of people (not blacks, not whites, not poor, not rich, not democrats, not republicans, but people) who experienced perhaps the worst (or second worst) US natural disaster of the 20th century. It has almost nothing to do with the people of Denver weathering a snowstorm, and it has almost nothing to do with the disasters you experienced.

[NCclimber 0]

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People see what they want to see.

Believe it or not, there are people out there who are capable of discussing Katrina, New Orleans and the aftermath without dragging race/racism into it.

You mean the ones who view it as 'well, golly gee, they were both fives'?

No. I was thinking of intelligent, mature adults.

cite please

Billvon seems likely.

[kelpdiver 2]

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if emergency services waited around until 1000 people froze to death before they took action, their surviving family members might raise a similar sort of ruckus as the one you heard after Katrina.

But that's the point, isn't it? That people waited...and in CO, no-one waited. They just acted.

Maybe it's just me. But a catagory 5 on a scale of 5, regardless of if it's rain or snow, is pretty bad. And yet...well...people did what they had to do to make sure their communities survived and came together to help each other.

4 feet of snow is hardly a natural disaster. Well, if it happened in Washington DC it would be, but Denver gets heavy storms every year. This one was merely a bit bigger. So people don't need to learn what to do - they've done it every year they lived there.

If you want a Katrina equilivient, it would be if a "Cat 5" avalanche swept into the city, burying thousands under the snow, and making thousands of other homes uninhabitable. Then you have a race against time - people freezing to death - with about the same timelines as people drowning in NO. And you can have people mugging each other for down jackets.

[Butters 0]

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if emergency services waited around until 1000 people froze to death before they took action, their surviving family members might raise a similar sort of ruckus as the one you heard after Katrina.

But that's the point, isn't it? That people waited...and in CO, no-one waited. They just acted.

Maybe it's just me. But a catagory 5 on a scale of 5, regardless of if it's rain or snow, is pretty bad. And yet...well...people did what they had to do to make sure their communities survived and came together to help each other.

4 feet of snow is hardly a natural disaster. Well, if it happened in Washington DC it would be, but Denver gets heavy storms every year. This one was merely a bit bigger. So people don't need to learn what to do - they've done it every year they lived there.

If you want a Katrina equilivient, it would be if a "Cat 5" avalanche swept into the city, burying thousands under the snow, and making thousands of other homes uninhabitable. Then you have a race against time - people freezing to death - with about the same timelines as people drowning in NO. And you can have people mugging each other for down jackets.

Only if you know about the avalanche days ahead of time.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[billvon 3,132]

>Only if you know about the avalanche days ahead of time.

Well, New Orleans knew about the hurricane, but did not anticipate the levee breaches (which caused most of the damage.) In your example, they'd have warning of the approaching storm, but not of the avalanche.

[Butters 0]

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>Only if you know about the avalanche days ahead of time.

Well, New Orleans knew about the hurricane, but did not anticipate the levee breaches (which caused most of the damage.) In your example, they'd have warning of the approaching storm, but not of the avalanche.

True.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Royd 0]

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This has NOTHING TO DO with race. Again, if your home were destroyed, and the roads were gone, and you had no food or water, then you would not have made it through your own personal "natural disasters" as well as you did - no matter what color you are.

But somehow, the general attitude of the populace speaks for itself.

If my property were torn up by a hurricane or tornado, and the govt. were willing to provide me with food and shelter, I wouldn't be sitting on my ass waiting for the next hand out.

I would get my tools, and get to work, tearing things apart to the point that I could put it back together.

How much potential manpower has sat in a hotel for as long as possible, drawing a govt. handout, because they felt like they deserved it, and then complained when the money was shut off.

These people could have pooled their money, talent and energy, and been well on their way to recovery by now.

I could build a 1,000 sq.ft. house by myself in about 8 months.

[Royd 0]

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If you want a Katrina equilivient, it would be if a "Cat 5" avalanche swept into the city, burying thousands under the snow, and making thousands of other homes uninhabitable. Then you have a race against time - people freezing to death - with about the same timelines as people drowning in NO. And you can have people mugging each other for down jackets.

Generally, people who live in cold climates stay prepared for emergencies. The cold can kill you in short order if you're not prepared for it.

[Michele 1]

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Michele, PLEASE stop playing the race card. Or start another thread about the subjugation you're experiencing. We're talking about national disasters, not race.

Wow, Bill...I'm not playing the race card. If you'd look, you'll see race entered into the conversation a long time ago. And 'twas not introduced by me. And if you'd look, and read the posts, you might realize I was not playing any race card...and I resent your attempt to paint me as a racist. I am far from that...and I know you know that. Your word twisting and mischaracterization is, while typical, abhorent and appalling. So please, read before you post, and understand the reason I posted this - stating plainly that there isn't anything racial...nor financial...about being able to be prepared and to heed warnings when given of impending national disasters, as well as unpredictable ones (such as EQs). (and thanks to the poster who pmd me about this...).

Furthermore, I am experiencing no subjugation, and thus will not start a thread about it. Please re-read, and if you are having comprehension issues, I'll try to explain further my intentions. But I know you know what I mean, and I also know your posting style well enough to call twisting when I see it.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Michele 1]

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So people don't need to learn what to do - they've done it every year they lived there.

you mean like hurricanes?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[billvon 3,132]

>How much potential manpower has sat in a hotel for as long as
>possible, drawing a govt. handout, because they felt like they
>deserved it, and then complained when the money was shut off.

A significant fraction of the population. If 100,000 homes in Colorado were destroyed, and the area rendered almost unlivable, you'd probably see a similar percentage of people who prefer living in a hotel in Boulder for free, rather than trying to figure out which end of a sawzall does the cutting.

>These people could have pooled their money, talent and
>energy, and been well on their way to recovery by now.

And a great many did. They're not as interesting as new stories, so you don't hear about them as much. But they're out there.

>I could build a 1,000 sq.ft. house by myself in about 8 months.

With what? Let's say you lost your home to the flood and everything in it. The school you worked at has been destroyed as well. You didn't have insurance (most poor people don't.) You are left with no money, no tools and no job. You'd get a job, but most of the schools in the area are closed. So you get a job as a bellhop in a hotel, because those are the only businesses remaining.

How long would it take you to rebuild your home working 20 hours a week for $6 an hour and living in a FEMA trailer? Even if you had the skill (most people don't) it would be months before you could even buy the tools you'd need, much less the construction materials. (Which by the way are impossible to find; everyone needs them.)

Plus which, rebuilding your home in the exact same flood-prone area might not be considered the smartest thing to do. If there was another flood, people who rebuild might be called some other bad names for being dumb enough to rebuild in a flood zone. You might even consider moving to a safer area - which is what a lot of people did. Would that make you one of the lazy ne'er-do-wells who doesn't even care enough to rebuild their home?

There are a lot of reasons New Orleans is taking a long time to recover. One of the reasons is NOT that everyone there is black and lazy.

[billvon 3,132]

>Wow, Bill...I'm not playing the race card.

Then why did you mention you were white three times and compare yourself to the people of New Orleans? Your skin color really isn't an issue, and I don't think that has anything to do with the discussion.

I think the biggest difference between you and the people in New Orleans is that most of them had their homes, jobs and possessions destroyed. You didn't. That's the biggest difference, and that's why you've made it through your disasters better than they made it through theirs. It has nothing to do with your color, your income, the political affiliation of your parents or whether whites or blacks can be criticized. It has everything to do with what actually happened to them.

>I am far from that...and I know you know that.

I know - which is why I was suprised to see your references to it.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Only if you know about the avalanche days ahead of time.

Actually, people in relevent areas often do. My mom has a house in the Sierras outside of Bishop. CA. This is a small 'town' at the end of where Caltrans will plow the road leading to Bishop Lakes, at about 9000ft. They all live in an area defined as a 100 year avalanche zone or worse.

Last year's winter had some substantial snowfall and the residents were encouraged on two occasions to stay down in the valley below. Avalache risk isn't hard to predict - when you have a thick layer of recent snow on top of an ice slab, it doesn't take much more snow to set the layer loose.

Few did - it's considered a hassle and it would be unusual for the worst case scenario. Rather like the chances of the levees collapsing. The hurricane was bad, but the water unleashed was much worse.

[Royd 0]

>I could build a 1,000 sq.ft. house by myself in about 8 months.

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With what? Let's say you lost your home to the flood and everything in it. The school you worked at has been destroyed as well. You didn't have insurance (most poor people don't.) You are left with no money, no tools and no job

If the govt. is willing to supplement my money supply for a period of time, enough to buy tools and food, and those FEMA trailers are not pieces of garbage, I should be able to step up to the plate and get busy.

I believe that back in the day, they called it a grubstake.

If you multiply that by thousands, there's really little excuse for being where you were at 18 months ago.

Admittedly, the concept of community would go a long way toward solving the problem.

[Michele 1]

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I think the biggest difference between you and the people in New Orleans is that most of them had their homes, jobs and possessions destroyed. You didn't. That's the biggest difference, and that's why you've made it through your disasters better than they made it through theirs. It has nothing to do with your color, your income, the political affiliation of your parents or whether whites or blacks can be criticized. It has everything to do with what actually happened to them.

I lost quite a bit in the '94 quake, Bill...I was renting, so didn't bear the cost of replacing a home, but...

Your assumption that I was speaking to only the black people in NO is pretty assumptive...I know there were white people there, too...and yet they didn't do a damned thing either. It's the ideology that I'm addressing; the "I'll wait for help, because I didn't/don't want to/see no reason to prepare..." that I'm talking about. And you well know it.

Why are you not challenging those who used the race card earlier in the post? That's interesting...and rather telling...but oh well. You know damned well I'm not a racist; to insinuate such, when it is NOT what I wrote, is, imho, a PA. I expect you to do better...aren't you always admonishing to play the ball and not the player? Deliberately mischaracterizing my statement to make me out to have race issues - when I'm not even the one who brought it into the conversation - indicates you have a personal problem with me...So Bill, play the ball, not the player.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[billvon 3,132]

>If the govt. is willing to supplement my money supply for a period of
>time, enough to buy tools and food, and those FEMA trailers are not pieces
>of garbage, I should be able to step up to the plate and get busy.

I agree. The government has just (as in last week) started paying out the first of that reconstruction money. So I'd expect to see more rebuilding soon. A lot of people are stuck without it though.

> If you multiply that by thousands, there's really little excuse for being
> where you were at 18 months ago.

Well, not getting the money for 18 months is a pretty good one.

[billvon 3,132]

>Why are you not challenging those who used the race card earlier in the
>post?

Perhaps you have not read the rest of the thread!

>You know damned well I'm not a racist; to insinuate such, when it is
>NOT what I wrote, is, imho, a PA.

If you didn't want to talk about your being white, then you shouldn't have posted about it. I don't think you're a racist and I am suprised you brought your race into the discussion. I imagine you had your reasons.

>indicates you have a personal problem with me...

If you want to discuss my "problem" with you, I suggest you take it to PM's. If not, feel free to discuss the topic, and not your feelings toward me. (Not that I don't like talking about me, but such things are pretty boring to other posters!)

[spudboy 0]

I lived in Northridge at the time of the quake, there was over $100,000 damage to my home, fortunately my insurance covered my losses, insurance does not cover floods like the one in NO, if you did not die in the quake then it is absolutely ludicrous for you to compare your experience to that of the people in NO, where there was complete devastation rather than a major incovenience

[DaVinci 0]

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But I don't think that addresses your implicit statement of 'stupid niggers'

I don't know where the fuck you get off trying to put those words in my mouth.

Mods how the fuck is that not an attack?