billvon 3,132 #26 January 11, 2007 >But a catagory 5 on a scale of 5, regardless of if it's rain or snow . . . Do you honestly think that a natural disaster that destroys your home is the same as one that just gets the roof wet? What destroyed most of New Orleans was not the hurricane, but the Gulf of Mexico. If Denver was underwater after the snowstorm, the two might be comparable. >Communities helping others...not waiting for a government to send >aid, because that might never get there. Yep. Now put yourself in that position. Your home has been destroyed. 10,000 other homes have been destroyed. You and 20,000 people are standing around. You can't go anywhere because the roads are simply gone, and no one can get to you for the same reason. Boats can't get to you because bodies and debris keep fouling the props. You (and everyone else) has no water or food. How do you help your neighbors? What do _you_ do, so as not to be labeled a lazy survivor just waiting for someone else to help you? Or put yourself in the position of someone just outside the disaster area. You don't have a helicopter. The roads are closed (and indeed many are gone.) The water is a toxic mess. You have a rowboat, but the water is still moving pretty fast. What do _you_ do, so later some poster on a board won't call you "someone who refuses to help their neighbors?" Blaming the victims of Katrina for not helping themselves makes about as much sense as blaming the victims of 9/11 for not simply leaving the building before it collapsed. (And blaming the surrounding communities is like blaming the rest of Manhattan for not going into the towers and carrying everyone out.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #27 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIn fact, North Dakota would not exist were it not for the federal government. The state receives the highest percentage of federal farm subsidies among them all. Three out of four North Dakota farmers receive this aid. There is a difference between a farmer being subsidised and a person receiving welfare. You don't say. Way to miss the point. What point was missed. You were comparing people who recieve welfare and people who are subsidised as if the two were the same thing. Right. Poor people on welfare receive taxpayers' money to continue doing what they are doing, whereas wealthy farmers receiving subsidies just receive taxpayers' money to continue doing what they are doing. Big difference.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #28 January 11, 2007 Quote Do you have any statistics to prove that large farming corporations (making millions with government connections) are the ones receiving the majority of subsidizing verse small family farms? From the article I posted.. Thus, large farms and agribusinesses--which not only have the most acres of land, but also, because of their economies of scale, happen to be the nation's most profitable farms--receive the largest subsidies. Meanwhile, family farmers with few acres receive little or nothing in subsidies. In other words, far from serving as a safety net for poor farmers, farm subsidies comprise America's largest corporate welfare program. You might also look at the graphs....the top recipients all seem to be doing very very well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #29 January 11, 2007 Coming from farm country, and the son of a farmer some of these guys are millionaires - but only because of land value and equipment value as far as money in the bank and yearly income, these "millionaires" are making subsistance and sometimes a little better than it. And, then, as soon as he dies, the kids can't keep the farm because this 'millionaire' can't afford to pass on the farm due to inheritance taxes... And this guy is very well connected politically.... to his brother or uncle who serves on the school board and the city council. Heck some of them even have the time during their 16 hour work days to eventually learn the name of their congressmen. NOT THAT'S CONNECTIONS. I love it when the small businessman farmer is lumped in with the multi-state corporate farming groups. Which I believe is basis of Amazon's angst here, she's not against the little guy in this one. My only fault with some of the small property farmers is that it's not a very viable business and they should find something lucrative - since the city bias and the government are making it next to impossible to stay in business unless you are a large corporate own operation. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #30 January 11, 2007 QuoteRight. Poor people on welfare receive taxpayers' money to continue doing what they are doing, whereas wealthy farmers receiving subsidies just receive taxpayers' money to continue doing what they are doing. Big difference. Do you have any statistics to prove that wealthy farmers are the ones receiving the majority of subsidizing?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #31 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteThere is a difference between a farmer being subsidised and a person receiving welfare. YEs there sure is... Welfare is keeping poor people alive with help for those who in most cases have nothing.. own no property etc... but are too stupid to keep their dicks in their pants so they have flocks of children who can then guarantee them more money from the program. Farm subsidies are paid to.. USUALLY large landowners who own vast tracts of land... and are paid to plant certain crops or not based on what the Agriculture Department feels will help the economy. Many times.. those landowners are multimillionaires.. but are VERY well connected politically. Do you have any statistics to prove that large farming corporations (making millions with government connections) are the ones receiving the majority of subsidizing verse small family farms? The guy I regularly fly with owns a farm in southern Illinois. He receives a sizeable annual payment from the feds on condition that he grows NOTHING. Nice to think that some of my tax dollars go to make him even wealthier than he already is.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #32 January 11, 2007 Quotegiving someone taxpayers' money to produce a product. if the product isn't profitable, then a business change is a better choice - it's hard for a typ farmer to do that, but it can be done. I don't want to subsidize the local hardware store with tax money either. as far as the government paying for us to plow sorghum back into the turf for whiny environmental reasons, I think that's a crock too. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #33 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteBut I don't think that addresses your implicit statement of 'stupid niggers'. Exactly. All the criticism, both direct and comparative, of New Orleans, and its residents, and its mayor, etc., in the wake of Katrina has definite racist undertones. These e-mails are just one installment in the process. But it's oh-so-taboo to say it aloud now isn't it? People see what they want to see. Believe it or not, there are people out there who are capable of discussing Katrina, New Orleans and the aftermath without dragging race/racism into it. Can you imagine? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #34 January 11, 2007 QuoteI love it when the small businessman farmer is lumped in with the multi-state corporate farming groups. Which I believe is basis of Amazon's angst here, she's not against the little guy in this one. Bingo...I have NO problem whatsoever helping the family farms stay in business... I do have issues with the government helping agibusinsess to put those family farms out of business... AND then control the food supply of the nation so completely... that could be a VERY good way to controll the masses in the future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #35 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteRight. Poor people on welfare receive taxpayers' money to continue doing what they are doing, whereas wealthy farmers receiving subsidies just receive taxpayers' money to continue doing what they are doing. Big difference. Do you have any statistics to prove that wealthy farmers are the ones receiving the majority of subsidizing? What does that have to do with anything? If they are wealthy enough to own a farm they are certainly wealthier than any welfare recipient.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #36 January 11, 2007 QuoteThe guy I regularly fly with owns a farm in southern Illinois. He receives a sizeable annual payment from the feds on condition that he grows NOTHING. Nice to think that some of my tax dollars go to make him even wealthier than he already is. I think our esteemed President Carter received a significant amount of federal subsidies to not grow peanuts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #37 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe guy I regularly fly with owns a farm in southern Illinois. He receives a sizeable annual payment from the feds on condition that he grows NOTHING. Nice to think that some of my tax dollars go to make him even wealthier than he already is. I think our esteemed President Carter received a significant amount of federal subsidies to not grow peanuts. Maybe we should pay Ford not to make cars. They lose money on every one anyway.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #38 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe guy I regularly fly with owns a farm in southern Illinois. He receives a sizeable annual payment from the feds on condition that he grows NOTHING. Nice to think that some of my tax dollars go to make him even wealthier than he already is. I think our esteemed President Carter received a significant amount of federal subsidies to not grow peanuts. Maybe we should pay Ford not to make cars. They lose money on every one anyway. Maybe we should pay university professors not to teach. Or is that already a part of the system? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #39 January 11, 2007 >Maybe we should pay university professors not to teach. Well, based on how much gets posted here, an awful lot of us are getting paid not to work! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #40 January 11, 2007 Quote>Maybe we should pay university professors not to teach. Well, based on how much gets posted here, an awful lot of us are getting paid not to work! HEY!!! oh yeah... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #41 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe guy I regularly fly with owns a farm in southern Illinois. He receives a sizeable annual payment from the feds on condition that he grows NOTHING. Nice to think that some of my tax dollars go to make him even wealthier than he already is. I think our esteemed President Carter received a significant amount of federal subsidies to not grow peanuts. Maybe we should pay Ford not to make cars. They lose money on every one anyway. Maybe we should pay university professors not to teach. Or is that already a part of the system? I'm sure that if we gave "A" grades without requiring students to attend class or take any exams, we could improve our popularity, but the employers of our alums might be a bit disappointed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #42 January 11, 2007 QuoteI'm sure that if we gave "A" grades without requiring students to attend class or take any exams, we could improve our popularity, but the employers of our alums might be a bit disappointed. And why not? You're going to hurt their self-esteem if you fail them or stress them out with testing. Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #43 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'm sure that if we gave "A" grades without requiring students to attend class or take any exams, we could improve our popularity, but the employers of our alums might be a bit disappointed. And why not? You're going to hurt their self-esteem if you fail them or stress them out with testing. Oh dear.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #44 January 11, 2007 The guy I regularly fly with owns a farm in southern Illinois. He receives a sizeable annual payment from the feds on condition that he grows NOTHING. Nice to think that some of my tax dollars go to make him even wealthier than he already is. Quote I agree that there are flaws in the system, but it seems a few people on here are pointing to everyone who gets paid for this as being rich landowners making a hefty living off the government. My father gets paid to not grow certain crops, I saw the amount of his payments, it's a mere fraction of what he would make if he really were growing those crops, the only good that money does him is give him a bit more to help work the cattle he raises. Subsidies are not completely wasted on the rich, take a drive around my home county sometime, you'll see plenty of ranchers that are barely scraping by and they are all in the system.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #45 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteBut I don't think that addresses your implicit statement of 'stupid niggers'. Exactly. All the criticism, both direct and comparative, of New Orleans, and its residents, and its mayor, etc., in the wake of Katrina has definite racist undertones. These e-mails are just one installment in the process. But it's oh-so-taboo to say it aloud now isn't it? People see what they want to see. Believe it or not, there are people out there who are capable of discussing Katrina, New Orleans and the aftermath without dragging race/racism into it. You mean the ones who view it as 'well, golly gee, they were both fives'? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #46 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBut I don't think that addresses your implicit statement of 'stupid niggers'. Exactly. All the criticism, both direct and comparative, of New Orleans, and its residents, and its mayor, etc., in the wake of Katrina has definite racist undertones. These e-mails are just one installment in the process. But it's oh-so-taboo to say it aloud now isn't it? People see what they want to see. Believe it or not, there are people out there who are capable of discussing Katrina, New Orleans and the aftermath without dragging race/racism into it. You mean the ones who view it as 'well, golly gee, they were both fives'? No. I was thinking of intelligent, mature adults. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #47 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBut I don't think that addresses your implicit statement of 'stupid niggers'. Exactly. All the criticism, both direct and comparative, of New Orleans, and its residents, and its mayor, etc., in the wake of Katrina has definite racist undertones. These e-mails are just one installment in the process. But it's oh-so-taboo to say it aloud now isn't it? People see what they want to see. Believe it or not, there are people out there who are capable of discussing Katrina, New Orleans and the aftermath without dragging race/racism into it. You mean the ones who view it as 'well, golly gee, they were both fives'? No. I was thinking of intelligent, mature adults. cite please----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites downwardspiral 0 #48 January 11, 2007 Um that letter is BS. I know a couple people that were "stuck" in that storm and they said that the news totally blew the strength of the storm out of proportion. Surprising? Hardly. My friend was flying out of Denver that day and when his flight got cancelled, he rented a car (a sedan I believe) and drove back to CA. lol suckerswww.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #49 January 11, 2007 >My friend was flying out of Denver that day and when his flight got >cancelled, he rented a car (a sedan I believe) and drove back to CA. [rant on] That's exactly the point! He saved himself, instead of waiting for the "nanny state" to save him. Why didn't those Katrina refugees just rent cars, drive to Dallas and save themselves? Why did they have to wait for someone to come help them? [rant off] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #50 January 11, 2007 Quote>My friend was flying out of Denver that day and when his flight got >cancelled, he rented a car (a sedan I believe) and drove back to CA. [rant on] That's exactly the point! He saved himself, instead of waiting for the "nanny state" to save him. Why didn't those Katrina refugees just rent cars, drive to Dallas and save themselves? Why did they have to wait for someone to come help them? [rant off] Bill, do you really think the majority of the residents in the 9th ward have a credit card? (usually necessary to rent a car) or are you just yanking my chain? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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jenfly00 0 #45 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteBut I don't think that addresses your implicit statement of 'stupid niggers'. Exactly. All the criticism, both direct and comparative, of New Orleans, and its residents, and its mayor, etc., in the wake of Katrina has definite racist undertones. These e-mails are just one installment in the process. But it's oh-so-taboo to say it aloud now isn't it? People see what they want to see. Believe it or not, there are people out there who are capable of discussing Katrina, New Orleans and the aftermath without dragging race/racism into it. You mean the ones who view it as 'well, golly gee, they were both fives'? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #46 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBut I don't think that addresses your implicit statement of 'stupid niggers'. Exactly. All the criticism, both direct and comparative, of New Orleans, and its residents, and its mayor, etc., in the wake of Katrina has definite racist undertones. These e-mails are just one installment in the process. But it's oh-so-taboo to say it aloud now isn't it? People see what they want to see. Believe it or not, there are people out there who are capable of discussing Katrina, New Orleans and the aftermath without dragging race/racism into it. You mean the ones who view it as 'well, golly gee, they were both fives'? No. I was thinking of intelligent, mature adults. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #47 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBut I don't think that addresses your implicit statement of 'stupid niggers'. Exactly. All the criticism, both direct and comparative, of New Orleans, and its residents, and its mayor, etc., in the wake of Katrina has definite racist undertones. These e-mails are just one installment in the process. But it's oh-so-taboo to say it aloud now isn't it? People see what they want to see. Believe it or not, there are people out there who are capable of discussing Katrina, New Orleans and the aftermath without dragging race/racism into it. You mean the ones who view it as 'well, golly gee, they were both fives'? No. I was thinking of intelligent, mature adults. cite please----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #48 January 11, 2007 Um that letter is BS. I know a couple people that were "stuck" in that storm and they said that the news totally blew the strength of the storm out of proportion. Surprising? Hardly. My friend was flying out of Denver that day and when his flight got cancelled, he rented a car (a sedan I believe) and drove back to CA. lol suckerswww.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #49 January 11, 2007 >My friend was flying out of Denver that day and when his flight got >cancelled, he rented a car (a sedan I believe) and drove back to CA. [rant on] That's exactly the point! He saved himself, instead of waiting for the "nanny state" to save him. Why didn't those Katrina refugees just rent cars, drive to Dallas and save themselves? Why did they have to wait for someone to come help them? [rant off] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #50 January 11, 2007 Quote>My friend was flying out of Denver that day and when his flight got >cancelled, he rented a car (a sedan I believe) and drove back to CA. [rant on] That's exactly the point! He saved himself, instead of waiting for the "nanny state" to save him. Why didn't those Katrina refugees just rent cars, drive to Dallas and save themselves? Why did they have to wait for someone to come help them? [rant off] Bill, do you really think the majority of the residents in the 9th ward have a credit card? (usually necessary to rent a car) or are you just yanking my chain? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
