FINALLY!

[Douva 0]

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Bollox!!!

How can you say the actions of the fearful person harm everybody!

From your description, upon seeing the mysterious white powder, the prepared person dons his respirator.....then what? Checks he/she has a round in the chamber? Then watches everybody who didn't happen to be carrying a respirator to work die?

Paranoid? YES!!!

I'll take my chances!!!!

It's the fucking 'prepared' person in your context who is actually fearful!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!

Anyway, have a great weekend.

The actions of the fearful person harm everybody because they needlessly disrupt the "system" and perpetuate unwarranted fear.

I never said anything about the prepared person seeing a white powder; you made the mistaken assumption that that was what I was getting at. If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I was listing things a prepared person might POTENTIALLY own, not things a prepared person carries with him at all times. But if the prepared person did see a white powder, he'd probably stop and ask himself, "Do I have reason to believe terrorists might have planted a biological or chemical agent here, or is it considerably more likely that this white powder is from another, much less harmful source?" The prepared person isn't living in a world of paranoid delusions; therefore, he needs neither his gun nor his gas mask to deal with the white powder.

Why do you say the prepared person in my context is fearful? Because he owns objects he may never use?

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[kallend 2,150]

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The difference between the prepared person and the fearful person.

The prepared person owns a gun or a gas mask or a million other things he probably won't need but might.

I can't afford a million things I probably won't need, nor do I have the strength to carry a million mostly unnecessary things around with me, so I prioritize. I suspect most others do too.

Based on the experience of my 61 years on this Earth (even living and working in Chicago!!) I have found no need to carry a gun, so a gun is down near the bottom of the million things on my probably not needed list.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Douva 0]

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>The prepared person owns a gun or a gas mask or a million other things he probably won't need but might.
>The fearful person calls for the evacuation of a building, airport, or freeway because he sees a white powder or an unattended parcel.

The wise person plans his life so he needs neither gun nor gas mask. That would include leaving the building if he thinks there's a bomb (or a terrorist) in it. He might also carry a gun - but even a gun owner would be well advised to walk away from a bomb (or a fight.)

There are all sorts of people. Some people use guns as a substitute for common sense. Some people use guns as a backup for common sense. Some people have neither. Some people have only common sense, and it serves them well.

>Society sometimes confuses these two people . . .

That's because some fearful people carry guns, and some courageous people do not. The two are neither synonyms nor antonyms.

I never said anything about the prepared person encountering a bomb or a terrorist or a chemical agent. I simply used people who panic at the sight of white powder and mysterious packages as EXAMPLES of fearful people. There are white powders and mysterious packages in life; the world needs to get used to that.

The idea that you can plan your life so well that you'll never need to defend yourself or protect yourself is ridiculous. Most people who own guns do not view them as a substitute for common sense. Most of them understand that common sense is a great tool but a poor substitute for a gun when you really need a gun.

The last sentence of your response almost sounds like you're trying to twist my argument about prepared people and fearful people into an argument about courageous people and cowards. Owning a gun has nothing to do with being courageous, and living in a world of fearful paranoia has nothing to do with being a coward. The prepared person simply has a broad enough view on history and life to know that his 18 to 98 years of life experiences are not indicative of the way things have always been, nor are they indicative of the way things will always be.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

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The difference between the prepared person and the fearful person.

The prepared person owns a gun or a gas mask or a million other things he probably won't need but might.

I can't afford a million things I probably won't need, nor do I have the strength to carry a million mostly unnecessary things around with me, so I prioritize. I suspect most others do too.

Based on the experience of my 61 years on this Earth (even living and working in Chicago!!) I have found no need to carry a gun, so a gun is down near the bottom of the million things on my probably not needed list.

I really don't care if you own or carry a gun or not. I just hope you're not so arrogant as to suggest that the life experiences of one American man, from 1945-2006, are sufficient evidence that no civilian, including yourself, will have need of a gun in 2007 or 2017 or 2027, because you have no way of knowing that. Fifteen years ago, most people thought they would never have need of the Internet. After all, they'd gone their whole lives without it, and their parents had gone their whole lives without it, and their grandparents had gone their whole lives without it--Why would they ever need a frivolous luxury like that?

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[moodyskydiver 0]

To PrarieDoug:

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Just curious... Is there a particular threat that makes you feel safer with a concealed handgun?

The threat of violence.But I ALSO want to carry simply b/c it is my constitutional RIGHT to do so.period.

Zipp0:

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He's bipolar - of course there are threats! (mainly the CIA and Major League Baseball)

Neither of those bother me..I actually like the Astros.BUT what does bother me is when talking about guns everyone assuming I'm a HE when I'm a SHE.

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Now, before someone jumps all over me, that was a friggin joke!

What bothers me, are the uneducated people out there who believe people aflicted with Bipolar Disorder cannot function as the rest of society.It is simply a mood disorder caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.Meds help fix this.The situation you described is more typical of a paranoid schizophrenic.So, if people insist on joking about a psychiatric disorder, please atleast be knowlegeable of what your bashing,otherwise,it makes you look like an uneducated moron.

vortexring:

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Can I ask how you think you would react, if, on carrying your concealed handgun, I suddenly appeared in your face, pointing a pistol into it, and demanded all your money?
Wouldn't do you much good would it?
Or would you shoot me when I legged it?

If I stay aware of my surroundings and the people in them this would likely not happen.If/When I have a bad feeling about someone or their behavior I always put my hand on my gun just in case,but I never pull it nor will I unless I believe I am in eminant danger and am willing to pull the trigger.Just like during a jump, you condition yourself and your mind to work very fast in assessing a situation and making decisions.

But, by TX law, if you got my wallet and ran,I'd still have the right to pursue you.I can use all means nessary to protect life and property.Would I pursue you? Maybe,depending on the circumstances.Would I shoot you if you ran? Yeah, I might.

"...just an earthbound misfit, I."

[dorbie 0]

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The difference between the prepared person and the fearful person.

The prepared person owns a gun or a gas mask or a million other things he probably won't need but might.

The fearful person calls for the evacuation of a building, airport, or freeway because he sees a white powder or an unattended parcel.

Society sometimes confuses these two people...

Well it seems to me that it's all the prepared people that are the fearful ones around here. There's no end to badge wearing gun totting highly prepared people in the USA raising alarms, evacuating buildings, confiscating nail clippers and implementing any other half-assed scheme that pops into their head with the utmost seriousness and sense of self-importance. What's more they've used my tax dollars to do all their preparing, thanks!

Preparing is a no-brainer when you get to play Roger Ramjet on someone else's dime.

[billvon 3,120]

>The idea that you can plan your life so well that you'll never need to
> defend yourself or protect yourself is ridiculous.

And the idea that you will someday need a gun to defend your life is ridiculous as well. I've made it 40 years without needing a gun. Most people make it their entire lives. I am more likely to need a fourth parachute (in case my first three fail) than to need a gun - and I don't use four parachutes when I jump.

However, if you choose to carry a gun, or to jump with four parachutes, that's your choice. It may even help you someday - I recall one jumper at Nationals this year who could possibly have used an additional parachute even though he had three already out.

Consider, however, how you would treat someone who showed up at your dropzone and contrasted people who were prepared, and jumped with four parachutes, to fearful skydivers. I suspect you would think them a bit silly.

>Most people who own guns do not view them as a substitute for
>common sense.

I agree, although I have seen several examples that indicate it happens with some frequency.

>The last sentence of your response almost sounds like you're trying
> to twist my argument about prepared people and fearful people into
> an argument about courageous people and cowards.

In the beginning of your post you contrasted prepared people with fearful people. They are not opposites. Some of the most prepared people prepare themselves well because they _do_ fear things. A person who flees an area where there might be a fight is wiser than a person who remains there because he has a gun. Indeed, one could argue that the person who flees is better prepared; he has the common sense to avoid situations where he needs his guns.

[Douva 0]

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The difference between the prepared person and the fearful person.

The prepared person owns a gun or a gas mask or a million other things he probably won't need but might.

The fearful person calls for the evacuation of a building, airport, or freeway because he sees a white powder or an unattended parcel.

Society sometimes confuses these two people, praising the fearful person for being alert and not taking any chances, while chastising the prepared person for being a paranoid fool. Ignored is the fact that the actions of the fearful person harm everybody, while the actions of the prepared person harm nobody (unless, of course, he crosses the line and begins behaving like a fearful person).

It occurs to me that the point of my original post has been seriously misinterpreted, so just to clarify, I was trying to dispel the notion that people carry guns because they're fearful, when in fact, most people carry guns because they want to be prepared. I was NOT suggesting that all people who don't carry guns are fearful or that people who do carry guns are somehow mentally superior.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

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In the beginning of your post you contrasted prepared people with fearful people. They are not opposites. Some of the most prepared people prepare themselves well because they _do_ fear things. A person who flees an area where there might be a fight is wiser than a person who remains there because he has a gun. Indeed, one could argue that the person who flees is better prepared; he has the common sense to avoid situations where he needs his guns.

As stated in my previous post, I think the point of my original post was misinterpreted. I was trying to point out that carrying a gun is not what makes a person a fearful person; being afraid of everything is what makes a person a fearful person. We've both made the same point, in a roundabout way--You can carry a gun without being a paranoid nut.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[billvon 3,120]

>I was trying to point out that carrying a gun is not what makes
>a person a fearful person; being afraid of everything is what makes
>a person a fearful person.

OK, gotcha. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Douva 0]

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>I was trying to point out that carrying a gun is not what makes
>a person a fearful person; being afraid of everything is what makes
>a person a fearful person.

OK, gotcha. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

My fault. I interjected my definitions of a "prepared person" and a "fearful person" without first explaining why I was defining them. I've edited the first post to make it a little clearer.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Taikoen 0]

As a Texan, should I be concerned when someone named "moodyskydiver" posts that he's FINALLY glad he got his concealed handgun license because he's bi-polar and on meds...?

I'm new, so please don't hunt me down and shoot me.

[moodyskydiver 0]

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As a Texan, should I be concerned when someone named "moodyskydiver" posts that he's FINALLY glad he got his concealed handgun license because he's bi-polar and on meds...?

I'm new, so please don't hunt me down and shoot me

No you shouldnt be concerned unless you're paranoid or a criminal.

I take serious offense at this entire statement.You should not be concerned b/c someone whos Bipolar and on medication finally got HER CHL.I was "finally" glad b/c it took 5months to get it rather than the usual 60days,NOT b/c I'm Bipolar and finally get to carry a gun.As for my screen name, I've had it for years and long before I was ever diagnosed Bipolar.

If you really are that paranoid about the criteria for the TX CHL and worried about 'crazy people' getting access to CHLs, then why dont you look up the CHL criteria.Its easily found on the DPS website.Try looking under GC 411.172(d)(e) and (f).Which describes fully the eligibility for those with psychiatric disorders,including the fact that they require signed documentation from a doctor to the effect that they are able to use sound judgement in the use,storage and carrying of a firearm.(which my doc DID).Also, these applications go up before a Medical Advisory Board which consists of more doctors and lawyers etc. who subpoena medical records and statements from the doctor and then rule on the applications eligibility.

So if not only my doctor, but several other doctors,lawyers and govt officials on the MAB had sufficient evidence to approve and issue my CHL,then I fail to see why you should have a problem with it.

As I stated earlier, those who make these remarks are uneducated in psychiatric disorders.We can function normally in society just as those w/o such aflictions..It is simply a mood disorder caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.Meds help fix this imbalance.Just like the sugar/insulin imbalance in diabetics.Its fixed with medication to balance it out..So, if people insist on joking or making off comments about a psychiatric disorder, please atleast be knowlegeable of what your bashing,otherwise,it makes you look like an uneducated moron.

I personally would be more concerned at the lack of education and intelligence of some people in society who like to label others rather than one specific female who has a CHL.

Dont worry, I wont shoot you...its not worth the ammo.Plus, if I went around shooting everyone who is misinformed, uneducated,or under intelligent I'd be spending alot of time reloading ammo.

"...just an earthbound misfit, I."

[Zep 0]

You'd also be left in a country with no government.

Gone fishing

[DaVinci 0]

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Still, can you give me some reasons to carry a concealed handgun then?

Sure, while in your little situation carrying a gun may not help you, there are equal numbers of situations where having a gun could save you.

Case in point a guy comes up to a buddy of mine, and pulls a knife on him. He hands over his wallet and watch like asked. The criminal then turns to my buddies GF and asks for her purse. She starts to hand it over and the guy starts paying attention to her...At that point my buddy pulls out his pistol and tells the criminal to drop his knife and his wallet and watch. The criminal does and then runs.

[ironic voice]Amazingly my friend didn't even shoot the guy!!!! Wow, who would have thought that a gun when drawn does not always have to shoot someone?[/ironic voice]

[kallend 2,150]

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Still, can you give me some reasons to carry a concealed handgun then?

Sure, while in your little situation carrying a gun may not help you, there are equal numbers of situations where having a gun could save you.

Case in point a guy comes up to a buddy of mine, and pulls a knife on him. He hands over his wallet and watch like asked. The criminal then turns to my buddies GF and asks for her purse. She starts to hand it over and the guy starts paying attention to her...At that point my buddy pulls out his pistol and tells the criminal to drop his knife and his wallet and watch. The criminal does and then runs.

[ironic voice]Amazingly my friend didn't even shoot the guy!!!! Wow, who would have thought that a gun when drawn does not always have to shoot someone?[/ironic voice]

As Douva wrote, there are LOTS of things that you might need but probably won't. Those with finite resources and mere human strength can't have all of them with us.

I would like to see some proof that a concealed gun should be high on the list.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[akarunway 1]

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Still, can you give me some reasons to carry a concealed handgun then?

Sure, while in your little situation carrying a gun may not help you, there are equal numbers of situations where having a gun could save you.

Case in point a guy comes up to a buddy of mine, and pulls a knife on him. He hands over his wallet and watch like asked. The criminal then turns to my buddies GF and asks for her purse. She starts to hand it over and the guy starts paying attention to her...At that point my buddy pulls out his pistol and tells the criminal to drop his knife and his wallet and watch. The criminal does and then runs.

[ironic voice]Amazingly my friend didn't even shoot the guy!!!! Wow, who would have thought that a gun when drawn does not always have to shoot someone?[/ironic voice]

As Douva wrote, there are LOTS of things that you might need but probably won't. Those with finite resources and mere human strength can't have all of them with us.

I would like to see some proof that a concealed gun should be high on the list.

I agree w/ you on most stuff Mr. Kallend BUT, I ain't bringing no knife to a gunfight. The world is getting nastier and nastier every day and I want my gun w/ me at all times. I have plenny more to say on the subject but once in awhile, LOL, I bite my tongue

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Nightingale 0]

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>The idea that you can plan your life so well that you'll never need to
> defend yourself or protect yourself is ridiculous.

And the idea that you will someday need a gun to defend your life is ridiculous as well. I've made it 40 years without needing a gun. Most people make it their entire lives.

I really hope you never need to know how to defend yourself and never need a gun either, Bill. I'd love to see a time come when self defense wasn't something we had to worry about. Unfortunately, I've seen far too many people come through my karate classes who thought they'd never need self defense, thought they'd never be victims, because most people aren't victims, they're always careful of course, and violence happens to people on TV, not to you and me... and they found out they were wrong. And they ended up in my class when it was too damn late to do something about what had already happened.

Then, I see things like this and realize that those victims aren't nearly as rare as we'd like to believe:

The odds of being a victim of a violent crime during adulthood are greater than 2 to 1. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Youth Violence Research Bulletin — February 2002)

In 2003, U.S. residents age 12 or older experienced an estimated 24.2 million violent and property crimes. (U.S. Department of Justice, National Crime Victimization Survey — September 2004)

One in six American women are victims of sexual assault, and one in 33 men. -Purdue.edu

Persons age 12 or older experience an average of more than 140,000 rapes, 109,000 attempted rapes, and 152,000 sexual assaults and attempted sexual assaults per year (strangers or acquaintances). (U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Rape and Sexual Assault: Reporting to Police and Medical Attention, 1992-2000 — August 2002)

Approximately 1.5 million women and 835,000 men are raped and/or physically assaulted by an intimate partner annually in the United States. (National Institute of Justice and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence — July 2000)

Except for rape or sexual assault, college students are most often violently victimized by someone they do not know. Victims of rape or sexual assault are about four times more likely to be victimized by someone they know than by strangers. (U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Violent Victimization of College Students, 1995-2002 — January 2005)

The odds of being a victim of a violent crime during adolescence are greater than 2 to 1. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Youth Violence Research Bulletin — February 2002)

Nearly 70 percent of adolescents are estimated to fall victim to violent crime. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Youth Violence Research Bulletin — February 2002)
More than 503,000 women and 185,000 men are stalked by an intimate partner annually in the United States. (National Institute of Justice and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence — July 2000)




My martial arts and my gun are like my reserve... I'd much rather have them and not need them than need them and not have them. I remember seeing a statistic that reserve rides happen about 1/500 times... and looking at the above statistics, which say I've got a 1/2 chance of being a victim of a violent crime, it seems I'm less likely to need my reserve than my self defense skills.

[mnealtx 0]

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Still, can you give me some reasons to carry a concealed handgun then?

Sure, while in your little situation carrying a gun may not help you, there are equal numbers of situations where having a gun could save you.

Case in point a guy comes up to a buddy of mine, and pulls a knife on him. He hands over his wallet and watch like asked. The criminal then turns to my buddies GF and asks for her purse. She starts to hand it over and the guy starts paying attention to her...At that point my buddy pulls out his pistol and tells the criminal to drop his knife and his wallet and watch. The criminal does and then runs.

[ironic voice]Amazingly my friend didn't even shoot the guy!!!! Wow, who would have thought that a gun when drawn does not always have to shoot someone?[/ironic voice]

As Douva wrote, there are LOTS of things that you might need but probably won't. Those with finite resources and mere human strength can't have all of them with us.

I would like to see some proof that a concealed gun should be high on the list.

How about immediate violent crime reductions in states that pass concealed carry laws? The fact that potential victims MAY be armed gives dirtbags pause.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Douva 0]

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Quote

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Still, can you give me some reasons to carry a concealed handgun then?

Sure, while in your little situation carrying a gun may not help you, there are equal numbers of situations where having a gun could save you.

Case in point a guy comes up to a buddy of mine, and pulls a knife on him. He hands over his wallet and watch like asked. The criminal then turns to my buddies GF and asks for her purse. She starts to hand it over and the guy starts paying attention to her...At that point my buddy pulls out his pistol and tells the criminal to drop his knife and his wallet and watch. The criminal does and then runs.

[ironic voice]Amazingly my friend didn't even shoot the guy!!!! Wow, who would have thought that a gun when drawn does not always have to shoot someone?[/ironic voice]

As Douva wrote, there are LOTS of things that you might need but probably won't. Those with finite resources and mere human strength can't have all of them with us.

I would like to see some proof that a concealed gun should be high on the list.

I guess I look at things a little differently than most people. I don't see the world as a big, scary place where I take my life into my hands every time I walk out my front door. I also don't see carrying a gun as an act of monumental consequence. I have to be conscientious about where I carry it, and I have to be careful that it's not clear to anyone else that I am carrying it--neither of which require a great deal of effort--And beyond that, it's really not much of an inconvenience. If I ever need it, it'll be there, and if I don't, nobody who doesn't know me will ever know it's there. If you don't want to carry a gun or own a gun or ever touch a gun, that's perfectly fine with me; just stay off the backs of those of us who do. It isn't the people with concealed handgun licenses who are robbing convenience stores and shooting up schools, so concentrate your fear of firearms somewhere else, such as on the criminals who unlawfully purchase, own, carry, and sell firearms on the street. I don't recall any of them sitting through the fifteen hour training course and submitting to state and federal fingerprint checks, as well as an FBI background check, with me.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[DaVinci 0]

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As Douva wrote, there are LOTS of things that you might need but probably won't. Those with finite resources and mere human strength can't have all of them with us.

So, what business is it of yours how much or what I legally carry? If I or someone else has a legal carry permit and carries a legal weapon. How does that in any way impact your life?

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I would like to see some proof that a concealed gun should be high on the list.

Provide proof it should not be. The simple fact is that you nor I can provide absolute proof. However you must admit that it is often better to avoid a situation AND be prepared for it if it still happens. Since the person is following the law then it really should be no business of yours what they do.

[JohnRich 4]

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can you give me some reasons to carry a concealed handgun?

The NRA's "Armed Citizen" files:
http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx

The KABR's "Operation Self Defense" files:
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/opsd/

Violence happens every day, and can happen to anyone, anywhere, no matter how careful you may be.

Going armed to be prepared for violence, is no different than having a fire extinguisher in your house in case of a fire, wearing your seat belt in case of an auto accident, or taking out life insurance to care for your family in case of your premature death.

If you wish to go through life unprepared, then I wish you good luck.

Come to think of it, since you aren't interested in the ultimate tool for saving yourself from a violent attack, that life insurance might be a good idea for you.

[mnealtx 0]

Some thoughts from 1993 on the subject.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,150]

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can you give me some reasons to carry a concealed handgun?

The NRA's "Armed Citizen" files:
http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx

The KABR's "Operation Self Defense" files:
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/opsd/

Violence happens every day, and can happen to anyone, anywhere, no matter how careful you may be.

Going armed to be prepared for violence, is no different than having a fire extinguisher in your house in case of a fire, wearing your seat belt in case of an auto accident, or taking out life insurance to care for your family in case of your premature death.

If you wish to go through life unprepared, then I wish you good luck.

Come to think of it, since you aren't interested in the ultimate tool for saving yourself from a violent attack, that life insurance might be a good idea for you.

Cardiac arrest happens every day. More people die of cardiac arrest than any other cause (including, surprise, being a victim of crime). Do you carry a portable defibrillator with you?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[vortexring 0]

Come to think of it, since you aren't interested in the ultimate tool for saving yourself from a violent attack, that life insurance might be a good idea for you.