kallend 2,107 #1 January 5, 2007 www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/05/politics/main2332894.shtml Just maybe it's the guy at the very top who should go?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #2 January 5, 2007 QuoteJust maybe it's the guy at the very top who should go? To Iraq.... and station himself to lead his troops from the front... I am sure one of Sadaams palaces would be appropriate splendor for King George. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #3 January 5, 2007 QuoteQuoteJust maybe it's the guy at the very top who should go? To Iraq.... and station himself to lead his troops from the front... I am sure one of Sadaams palaces would be appropriate splendor for King George. And why not? HRH Bubba Jeff did such a tremendous job "leading the troops" in Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo..... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #4 January 5, 2007 QuoteHRH Bubba Jeff did such a tremendous job "leading the troops" in Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo..... Hey remember he KNEW better than to presume any kind of military knowledge.... Unlike King George.... or fearless leader who did not even serve out his full term of service. And shall we compare and contrast the death toll of Americans under Clinton and King George???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #5 January 5, 2007 QuoteQuoteHRH Bubba Jeff did such a tremendous job "leading the troops" in Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo..... And shall we compare and contrast the death toll of Americans under Clinton and King George???? then we will compare death tolls of americans under FDR and Warren Harding. FDR killed more of our boys!!!! I don't think you can use death toll to compare presidents. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #6 January 5, 2007 Hmm. I wonder why Casey is out? "Gen. George W. Casey Jr., the senior American commander in Iraq, came up with a plan to draw down American combat forces from 14 brigades to just 5, in the expectation that Iraqi forces would "pick up the slack." - Dec 11 2006 What about Abazaid? "I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I’ve seen it, in Baghdad in particular, and that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move towards civil war."- Aug 2006 Don't these people know how to kiss ass? Time for some replacements who aren't going to come up with annoying non-Bush ideas! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #7 January 5, 2007 For better or worse civilians (politicos) run the military in America. It's why I've never understood it when Bush goes out of his way to say so many times "I let my Generals run the war." Forgetting that you can't bank on anything Bush says, what's the logic of kicking out Army Generals and bringing in a Navy Admiral to command a "desert" war? While I'm on about Generals, and I'm directing this at my brother Marines, what's the deal with General Peter Pace? As Chairman of the Joint Chiefs he seems, to me, more like General Milk Toast. I mean he really seems to brown nose Bush way too much. And you see it a lot at press conferences when they appear together. Most other Marine General Officers would have had Bush out on the grinder doing bends and motherfuckers by now . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #8 January 5, 2007 QuoteHey remember he KNEW better than to presume any kind of military knowledge.... Unlike King George.... or fearless leader who did not even serve out his full term of service. Show me proof that he's explicitly dictating tactics, a la LBJ, and I'll concede the point - otherwise, it's more of the normal histrionics. QuoteAnd shall we compare and contrast the death toll of Americans under Clinton and King George???? Shall we add Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Johnson and Nixon, too? They all make GW look like a piker... If today's generation had been the ones in place at the start of WWII, we'd be speaking German and Japanese now...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #9 January 5, 2007 QuoteShow me proof that he's explicitly dictating tactics, a la LBJ, and I'll concede the point - otherwise, it's more of the normal histrionics. The old saying the buck stops here( at the Oval Office applies).. it was an optional war that did not need to be fought... He with Rummy dictated how the war would be fought.against the best advice of his generals.... FROM THE BEGINNING. QuoteIf today's generation had been the ones in place at the start of WWII, we'd be speaking German and Japanese now... You show a great level of disservice to our men and women in uniform if you believe that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #10 January 5, 2007 QuoteIf today's generation had been the ones in place at the start of WWII, we'd be speaking German and Japanese now... I'll just quote the first three words you wrote in your post in answer to this: QuoteShow me proof Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #11 January 5, 2007 QuoteQuoteIf today's generation had been the ones in place at the start of WWII, we'd be speaking German and Japanese now... You show a great level of disservice to our men and women in uniform if you believe that. To the service members, yes, that's an insult and I apologize to them for that. You're absolutely right to make that point.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #12 January 5, 2007 QuoteQuoteIf today's generation had been the ones in place at the start of WWII, we'd be speaking German and Japanese now... I'll just quote the first three words you wrote in your post in answer to this: QuoteShow me proof Easy - todays generation expects war to be bloodless and with no casualties. They demand masses of rules and concessions that make it impossible for the troops to do their jobs. Of course, most of today's generals seem to be more of a peacekeeper mindset than otherwise, so I shouldn't be TOO surprised that the troops are being used as glorified policemen.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #13 January 5, 2007 >todays generation expects war to be bloodless and with no casualties. Do you think that's because they think war is really bloodless, or because they were told that it would be a walk in the park? I have zero doubt that if China attacked Los Angeles and killed a few thousand people, the vast majority of the US would support even a bloody war to defeat our enemy. But if China attacked Los Angeles and we attacked Thailand as a result (after all, they're both asian looking) and the public was promised that it would be a short war and we'd be welcomed as liberators, then there would be less support. And if, three years later, we were losing in Thailand while our enemies grew ever stronger, then you can bet your ass there would be opposition to the war. That's because people, in the end, are not as stupid as politicians wish they were. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #14 January 5, 2007 >>You show a great level of disservice to our men and women in uniform if you believe that. << I know the above wasn't directed at me, but here is the hard truth of it. People who confuse dissent with a swipe at our military are living under a rock. When I joined the Marines at 17-years old I'd have blown the Pope's head off if someone ordered me to do it. And since those orders originate, basically, from the oval office, it's every American's duty to understand the implications of that. But I'm not 17-years old anymore and our beloved Marine Corps is in the hands of a moron. I have an ingrained love and respect for anyone who carries the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor. I also respect the people who refuse military service because they believe a particular conflict is wrong. But, I have nothing but disdain for anyone who won’t make a stand one way or the other, gets gifted into the Texas Air National Guard to avoid service in Vietnam, and then, unbelievably desserts his post . . . Look at the lists on the internet that show all the Texas boys born in 1946 (same year as Bush) who heroically lost their lives in Vietnam. Which one of those boys took Bush's place? NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #15 January 5, 2007 Which one took Bill's, once he dropped out of ROTC after he got to England? Which one took Edward's place? Dude, we can play "point the finger" all day long at various politicians. You disagree with the current administration's idiology, and that's fine. Talk about the ideology, then. Enough of this stupid ass "chickenhawk" crap - it's a ploy to stifle the opposition.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #16 January 5, 2007 Clinton was against the war in Vietnam and he took a stand. And the ROTC is not a branch of military service. It's like saying someone deserted the Boy Scouts. I'm not familiar enough with Edwards' background to comment. And the "chicken hawk crap" is as relevant today as its ever been . . . probably more so. NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #17 January 5, 2007 QuoteEnough of this stupid ass "chickenhawk" crap - it's a ploy to stifle the opposition. The trouble is Mike, that almost to a man.. this administration avoided service in some way.. and NOW presume to be experts ie "THe Lords of War". I certainly disagree with their ideology of enriching themselves and their friends at the expense of the American people. What I find hard to believe is that so many good republicans are not getting a major case of chafe in their shorts and will support this massive case of incompetence to any level just so they can remain loyal to their party affiliation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #18 January 5, 2007 ROTC is not a branch of military service? Where did you take ROTC? One signs up, if accepted, and you get paid by the Army (or whatever branch you've signed up with) and you go on active duty following graduation from college. Sure sounds like the military to me! I'm of Clinton's vintage, took the first two years of ROTC, had many friends who signed up and took the final two years, and served in the Army as 2LTs following graduation. I enlisted and went the OCS route following graduation. I'm quite sure you have no first-hand knowledge of the subject. Clinton pulled a fast one and it came back to bite him. Sorry 'bout that! --- to use the lingo of those days!"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #19 January 5, 2007 >>I'm quite sure you have no first-hand knowledge of the subject.<< The minimum age to join ROTC is 14-years old. How does a 14-year old sign a contract? But, you're right, I didn't fully realize this program wasn't just for children. NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #20 January 5, 2007 You are talking about JROTC - "Junior" ROTC - not ROTC which is offered in colleges. Clinton played a game to allow him self time to finish grad school and then stiffed the Colonel who went to bat for him. Early example of Clinton's character, or lack thereof. He screwed someone who helped him out and the Clintons were great for throwing their "friends" overboard when they had outlived their usefulness."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #21 January 5, 2007 QuoteClinton was against the war in Vietnam and he took a stand. You mean by all his deceptive, back-stabbing measures to avoid service? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #22 January 5, 2007 QuoteQuoteClinton was against the war in Vietnam and he took a stand. You mean by all his deceptive, back-stabbing measures to avoid service? OK - partisan talking points aside (by the way, did you know Clinton got a BJ? Just checking.): You're right – Clinton was essentially a draft dodger. In my book, Cheney and Bush were draft dodgers, too. But during Clinton's presidency, he wasn't a hawkish militarist who styled himself as a war president, and took us into a discretionary war that I think would not have been launched by Nixon (who served in the Pacific in WW2), Ford (ditto), Bush, Sr. (ditto, and had his plane shot down in combat), or Reagan (made daring movies for the Army in California during WW2), or by hypothetical Presidents Bob Dole (crippled by enemy fire) or John McCain (shot down; crippled by injuries; held POW; tortured). If anything, Clinton was probably unduly passive militarily. That's why Bush and Cheney uniquely deserve the label "chickenhawk". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,107 #23 January 5, 2007 QuoteROTC is not a branch of military service? Where did you take ROTC? One signs up, if accepted, and you get paid by the Army (or whatever branch you've signed up with) and you go on active duty following graduation from college. Sure sounds like the military to me! For at least the last 20 years you only get paid if you have a ROTC scholarship. There are plenty of non-scholarship ROTC members who do it out of interest, not because they get paid. You only incur a service obligation if you take the money.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #24 January 5, 2007 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #25 January 5, 2007 >>Bush, Sr. (ditto, and had his plane shot down in combat)<< Take a look here. No comment either way from me. But I did hear this story while Bush, sr. was still in office from some Marine fighter pilots. http://www.usvetdsp.com/story46.htm NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
