Do you believe in sin?

[billvon 3,096]

>It could equally be argued (depending on one's moral code)
>that cheating on your wife is a crime as much as a wrong.

Hmm. To me, cheating on your wife is not a crime because no law is being broken. It's a sin because you are intentionally breaking your moral code (assuming cheating on your wife is against your morals, which it is for most people.)

That's not quite the same as being wrong, though. If someone goes to great length to disguise themselves as your wife, gets you drunk and sleeps with you, that's still wrong. But you may not have committed a sin, because you did not intentionally cheat on your wife. (I know, that would be hard to do, but I did once go out with these identical twins . . .)

[porpoishead 8]

whoever is whithout sin shall cast the first stone???????

someone help me out with this one, its been a minute.

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[DSE 5]

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but I did once go out with these identical twins . . .)

Are they still available, and attractive?

Cheating on your wife may be a crime, depending on which law you're speaking of. "Crime" can be used synonymously with "sin" in some contexts, which is again why I try to avoid the word, simply because of the potential connotations. You're correct, of course, it it's properly used form, "crime," "wrong," and "sin" all hold exclusive meanings. But then so does "sucks," "garbage," "crap," "junk."
English sucks. It's a language without a cultural foundation from which everyone originates.
IMO, everyone should be forced to speak Dine', the most commonly spoken indigenous language in the US. It's impossible to have these sorts of ambiguous or multi-meaning words.

[akarunway 1]

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I'm a theist, not an atheist or agnostic, but let me ask, what do you define as "sin"?

allowing chocolate milk to go undrunk and having to throw it out

Na. Wasting a good beer is a sin

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Amazon 7]

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Wasting a good beer is a sin

No.... that is alcohol abuse... ( well unless its crappy light beer but that is not a good beer)

[hairyjuan 0]

sin was invented by the church to scare YOU into submission.






www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELoN30SY6
the real reason for the season

ARE YOU AWAKE ENOUGH TO LEARN FROM THIS

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[Nightingale 0]

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Evil implies that there is a higher power other than humanity at work. I'd say that kind of action would be awful and horrible and warranting either severe punishment or treatment depending on the situation, but not evil.

so in your vocabulary - you refuse to even come up with a secular definition of either 'evil' or 'sin'

sounds a bit frustrating to me and turns this part of the discussion away from substantive talk and into a semantics contest

I don't see it as semantics at all. "Evil" and "sin" are vocabularies of the Christian faith.
"right" and "wrong" are from the vocabularies of mankind.
...
There are varying degrees of "right" and "wrong," which in my opinion, closely echo the degrees of "sinfulness" of Christians.
Where my difference lies, is that I think it's beyond utterly ridiculous to assert that we're born in sin or as a result of sin. That's just a silly scare tactic that can be philosophized or debated to death, and still end up with no valid conclusion.
...

Exactly.

[Lindsey 0]

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sin was invented by the church to scare YOU into submission.

As infrequently as I agree with you, this time I do....I think. Haven't clicked the clicky.

Oooh. "Clicking the clicky" reminded me of a joke. Heh.

A sorority of lesbians and a fraternity of homosexual men enter a foot race. Who will win?






The lesbians of course. They go lickety split while the men are at the house packing their shit.....

:)
linz

edited to add: I think that most people do right naturally, unless something screws 'em up along the way. I believe that we, by nature, do the things that enable us to survive. I think that we have come to regard those things as "good" for the most part.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[chuteless 1]

You don't believe in sin

You do believe in mistakes.

Jesus Christ was crucified and suffered a horrible death on the cross to pay for the sins of the world. Your statement, in denying that there is indeed sin in this world, is about as blasphemous as one can possibly get, suggesting that God had His Son, the Living WORD of God, killed for nothing.

You believe in mistakes....and you've just made the biggest mistake possible.

I recall once you told me that you felt God's arm around you as you climbed to altitude, and then later said that feeling wasnt there any more.

Its not hard to figure out why its not there, when you blaspheme God by saying His Son died for nothing.

Bill Cole

[billvon 3,096]

>edited to add: I think that most people do right naturally, unless
> something screws 'em up along the way. I believe that we, by
> nature, do the things that enable us to survive. I think that we have
> come to regard those things as "good" for the most part.

I don't think that's true. If you're male, beating/killing off potential competiton for mates is (evolutionarily) a good thing. Keeping all the apples for your family is a good thing. Heck, rape is a good thing - again, speaking purely in terms of evolution.

Since we've gotten intelligent enough to form societies, we've learned that certain evolutionary drives (jealousy, greed, lust) have some bad consequences for society when we express them as murder, gluttony, or rape. So we pass laws against them.

Overall, I think that about half the "built in" drives are for things we consider good, and about half are for things we consider bad. Our intelligence lets us decide which of those drives to express, which to supress, and which to sublimate into something more useful to society.

[Nightingale 0]

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I recall once you told me that you felt God's arm around you as you climbed to altitude, and then later said that feeling wasnt there any more.

That conversation was years ago, and I don't recall saying I was referring to the Christian god. Just acknowledging a spiritual experience and asking questions. And it's rude to post things that people have told you privately in PMs.

[chuteless 1]

You most certainly were referring to the Christian God, and asked about attending a church in your area, and if you recall, I put you in touch with my sister-in-law in Los Angeles, who is a born again Christian.

You see, young lady, you are sinning here by telling a lie about it.

Personally, I don'tt think you know what you believe.

[steveorino 7]

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You most certainly were referring to the Christian God, and asked about attending a church in your area, and if you recall, I put you in touch with my sister-in-law in Los Angeles, who is a born again Christian.

You see, young lady, you are sinning here by telling a lie about it.

Personally, I don'tt think you know what you believe.

And you "outing" her here is such a positive step! I bet she is dying to attend your sister's church now. Do you really believe taking PMs into an open forum is a good idea?

Man, some of us who call ourselves "Christian" never cease to amaze me with their attitudes.

Jesus, save me from some of your "followers!"

steveOrino

[billvon 3,096]

>You see, young lady, you are sinning here by telling a lie about it.

And you are not doing yourself a service by revealing what was told to you in confidence.

[chuteless 1]

Its not a matter of "outing" anyone. She is lying, and that's a sin.

I don't think she ever attended that church, but would suggest it might have been a good thing for her.

She would have learned what sin is, and how Satan is the father of all lies, and lying is a sin.

Maybe she would have realized that Jesus died for all sinners, and she wouldnt imply that His death was for something that didnt exist.

[Nightingale 0]

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You most certainly were referring to the Christian God, and asked about attending a church in your area, and if you recall, I put you in touch with my sister-in-law in Los Angeles, who is a born again Christian.

You see, young lady, you are sinning here by telling a lie about it.

Personally, I don'tt think you know what you believe.

I was looking for information and trying to investigate my experience. I did actually attend a church in my area for a while (not that it's any of your business) and came to the conclusion that any religion that teaches people to hate and judge isn't for me.

[DSE 5]

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Its not a matter of "outing" anyone. She is lying, and that's a sin.

I don't think she ever attended that church, but would suggest it might have been a good thing for her. But it's none of my business, so I should just shut my trap....That's what Jesus would do.

She would have learned what sin is, and how Satan is the father of all lies, and lying is a sin.

Maybe she would have realized that Jesus died for all sinners, and she wouldnt imply that His death was for something that didnt exist.

Fixed it for you. You're welcome

[Remster 30]

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Man, some of us who call ourselves "Christian" never cease to amaze me with their attitudes.

Its just a label... you may be a coocoo jesus lover IMO, but you're alright!

Remster

[rehmwa 2]

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I don't think she ever attended that church, but would suggest it might have been a good thing for her. But it's none of my business, so I should just shut my trap....That's what Jesus would do.

I don't think that Jesus kept his mouth shut (if the stories are true). But if you are religious, one would certainly agree that Jesus is tad more qualified to talk on the subject than our friend Chuteless.

I think betraying a trust of confidentiality can be considered a sin against another. (it's valid, since 7 of the 10 main commandments are all sins against another, and only 3 are between a man and god)

how am I doing for an agnostic

Daddy, hurry, the heathen's getting away.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[steveorino 7]

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Its not a matter of "outing" anyone. She is lying, and that's a sin.

I don't think she ever attended that church, but would suggest it might have been a good thing for her.

She would have learned what sin is, and how Satan is the father of all lies, and lying is a sin.

Maybe she would have realized that Jesus died for all sinners, and she wouldnt imply that His death was for something that didnt exist.

Maybe, but I'm convinced she has stepped farther away from exploring a Christian church based on what she experienced from you as a Christian. I would think publically emabarrassing someone and thus turning them away from seeking the truth is a sin that has more negative repercussions than lying about a statement made in private.

I guess you both will have to answer up.

steveOrino

[steveorino 7]

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. I did actually attend a church in my area for a while (not that it's any of your business) and came to the conclusion that any religion that teaches people to hate and judge isn't for me.

There are bad skydiving instructors who tell you that safety is over rated, avoid them. They're wrong and do not speak for the majority of us.

There are Christians and churches that teach and preach hatred and self righteous judgement. Avoid them; they're wrong and do not speak for Christ.

steveOrino

[unformed 0]

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how am I doing for an agnostic

Doesn't matter. We're all screwed anyways, so we might as well get our money's worth and sin to our heart's content.

Okay, I'm gonna go rape a bunny rabbit.

This ad space for sale.

[DSE 5]

Wasn't suggesting Jesus should shut his trap, but rather Chuteless. I think Jesus has been given enough credit for words he never spoke.

[steveorino 7]

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Wasn't suggesting Jesus should shut his trap, but rather Chuteless. I think Jesus has been given enough credit for words he never spoke.

Curious ... What words do you think he hasn't spoke that are attribute dto him?

steveOrino

[billvon 3,096]

>What words do you think he hasn't spoke that are attribute dto him?


"On this account I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends."