jenfly00 0 #201 January 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteMy initial thought was perhaps only people who have served in combat should really answer this. So far it seems only 1 has... Wrong! Your pride comes through clearly. Proud men, doing their duty, firm in their belief that they were fulfilling what only men could do ...must do, as part of their contribution to their culture. You should be proud ...and I'm proud of you. The fact it is based on a large cultural lie, does not change what you did. I wish you could see that no longer subjugating half of our population in no way diminishes you. I know it's difficult (if not impossible) for you to see this, but that doesn't alter the truth of it. If you can't find some way to recognize and embrace this, well, you're really not going to like what comes next.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #202 January 6, 2007 QuoteI'm not exactly trying to impress I know you're not, dude. You're merely clinging to something you value greatly. You fear change will take that away from you. It won't ...unless you force it to by refusing to grow.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #203 January 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMy initial thought was perhaps only people who have served in combat should really answer this. So far it seems only 1 has... Wrong! Your pride comes through clearly. Proud men, doing their duty, firm in their belief that they were fulfilling what only men could do ...must do, as part of their contribution to their culture. You should be proud ...and I'm proud of you. The fact it is based on a large cultural lie, does not change what you did. I wish you could see that no longer subjugating half of our population in no way diminishes you. I know it's difficult (if not impossible) for you to see this, but that doesn't alter the truth of it. If you can't find some way to recognize and embrace this, well, you're really not going to like what comes next. Well Jen, you've made a few assumptions which are wrong. My main point is that brutal combat is no place for a lady - perhaps my perception of this said combat is different to yours, but I'd rather not go into that. I regularly fly helicopters with women - no problem. Before I served on the ground occasionally with women, and again; no problem. With regards to pride, and doing our duty, a duty only men can perform........ Well!!! This is so difficult to answer - your perception of me is so wrong - whether through British or American cultural differences, I don't know. Some things can be too personal to say on a public forum - and I also enjoy my anomity - but put it this way, your opinion is far closer to mine than you obviously can see. I just don't really feel like going into the reasons why. Not here. Ultimately infantry soldiers live in a super macho environment, they wouldn't be that effective otherwise. But my opinion is not simplisticaly based on a macho attitude as you think. Honest! Myself, and most of my colleges, are painfully aware of so many things going wrong, since, well 9/11 really. Too many to list. But one which does spring to mind is moral leadership, or perhaps the lack of it, such as Abu Graib for example. And perhaps a blind macho approach to operations can also be another problem too - I've always been an advocate of gaining locals trust and support on operations - no simple task in itself. What's important is that my opinion is not completely based on a stereotypical blind military macho attitude. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #204 January 6, 2007 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not exactly trying to impress -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteI know you're not, dude. You're merely clinging to something you value greatly. You fear change will take that away from you. It won't ...unless you force it to by refusing to grow. Typical woman. Always trying to change a man into something that he isn't. If God had wanted us to be touchy, feely and talk a mile a minute, he would have made us into women. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #205 January 6, 2007 QuoteI wonder if combat aviators and pilots would consider themselves "support" They should. Maybe 15-20 years ago you could have said that F-15C pilots weren't supporting anyone. They were out there on their own to win air superiority. These days though........just about anything that flies is supporting someone on the ground. Even the Combat Air Patrols (CAP) flying in Iraq are PRIMARILY armed to support ground troops. There's just not much of an air to air threat around here. I don't know for sure but I can imagine the Iranians like to patrol the border and I KNOW the Turks do but I don't think they would have the balls to try and threaten a US aircraft. They know better. So yeah...........I don't care what you fly.......it's a support role. QuoteLike your job for instance. That's funny you bring that up. People will split hairs with you till the end of time over what is support and what isn't. It really comes down to who you are talking to. I have known people that got their nipple in a ringer and fired from jobs because they said that they worked for a particular organization. It turned out they did work there..........but they got a silver coin instead of a gold one. Only difference.........are you on a "door kicking" team or in support of that team. What it comes down to in the wider picture is this..........Is your primary job pulling a trigger? Yes........you are in a direct combat role. No...........you are in support. So.........all you women out there whining I can't figure out why. That keeps you out of what........Infantry in the Army and USMC and SEALs in the Navy and maybe a few other jobs. The list is thin. One of the most dangerous day to day jobs in Iraq is driving trucks in a supply convoy. Insurgents just LOVE to blow them up. Who does security on those convoys? MP's and Air Force Security forces have done that a lot since this war began. DO they employ women..........You bet. Do women do a FINE job there. Certainly. Does that mean I think I want women in Infantry, 18 series, SEALs, PJ, CCT, TACP? Nope! Do I want to rely on a woman to drag me out of burning vehicle under fire. Amazon...........yeah she could haul me without breaking a sweat. Any other woman I have ever met Nope. BTW..........my job IS open to women. We have had 2 try out and neither one ever made it to a team. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #206 January 6, 2007 QuoteWe have had 2 try out and neither one ever made it to a team. But, doesn't that come back to what I said about standards at the beginning of the thread? One set of standards, and if you don't meet them, you don't get the job.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #207 January 6, 2007 QuoteOne set of standards, and if you don't meet them, you don't get the job. I would amend that to also not throwing up extra special roadblocks... although if the instructors do not like someone they will do it in a heartbeat to guys as well...I just jumped over the roadblocks on many occasions.. but then again I thrive on things like that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #208 January 6, 2007 QuoteI would amend that to also not throwing up extra special roadblocks I know that happens a lot.........I can ASSURE you it didn't in this case though. The instructors were under A LOT of pressure to be fair. Especially since this particular girl was the first to come through the program. They even let her stay after she shot an instructor square in the forehead while clearing a room. I don't remember what she did after that but it was something else major and they finally got rid of her. They still hired her to work in ops though. She just isn't a shooter. I honestly don't know what happened with the other girl. I think she flunked the machine gun quals or something. You get 2 chances on each weapons system. Flunk them both and you are gone. No questions asked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #209 January 6, 2007 If God had wanted us to be touchy, feely and talk a mile a minute, he would have made us into women. Quote If you think being a real man means you are emotionless and uncaring than you have a lot to learn my friend.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #210 January 6, 2007 It is a matter of standards and the qualifications to meet those standards. If anyone can't perform to the required level, they do not get the assignment. That seems ultimately fair, but no one is responding to your posts about qualifications, just making rude personal attacks. In any other job where lives are dependent on ability, you would hear no objections. If we were talking about an airline pilots job, and someone did not have the qualifications to be a pilot, I doubt that we would find anyone willing to sit on that plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites downwardspiral 0 #211 January 6, 2007 QuoteThey even let her stay after she shot an instructor square in the forehead while clearing a room. Quote That has to be a funny story. Unless of course it was a live fire excercise. Was it paintball or MILES?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #212 January 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteI would amend that to also not throwing up extra special roadblocks I know that happens a lot.......... This where one of the prolems lie. It's the ASSUMPTION that the female can't do the job. It's the belief that they CAN'T meet the requirements simply because they have two X's and are missing a penis. It's the belief of superiority that is the issue. The other issue is that to advance beyond certain ranks, it becomes almost a requirement to have certain experience. I'm not saying that women need to have a day in battle so that they can become General... but if you exclude women from combat.... could they become a General? Glass slipper equals a glass ceiling. Personal beliefs... I understand what you guys are saying and I know you want someone big in your corner in the heat of battle. But listen (no... I mean really LISTEN) to the counter arguments that are made about your assumptions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vortexring 0 #213 January 6, 2007 It's not so much someone big Karen - more their mentality in certain situations many soldiers have been finding themselves in recently. It's a mentality women don't normally have, because their, well, women! No big deal - I'm not suggesting a firefight may be lost through women in the section being distracted by broken nails or by being distracted by a nice kitten for example. () It's a 'controlled' agression they normally don't posess. In fact, contolled psychosis is perhaps more nearer to the truth. I'm deliberatly avoiding examples simply because they're rather horrifying for the more delicate amongst us. Patronising? Perhaps. There definently exists a place for women in the military - without a doubt. But why are very, very few women capable of passing the cadres and selections for the more 'elite' units? Why, despite numerous attempts, some have yet to do so? I'm aware a women passed the All Arms Commando course in the UK, but these soldiers are pretty much normal infantry anyway. Infantry is certainly not one of them. Neither is close quarter battle with a desperate enemy either. Still, thinking about that one, I think my wife might be up to the job if she could, where necessary, get as angry and psychotic as the time when I.... In fact, forget it Edit: In the British Army, everyone is officially a soldier - but for me a soldier is when your out taking on the enemy. Not filing paper, or driving a truck, or even firing artillary shells. Soldiers exist in a so called tough and macho world. Why on earth would a lady wish to work in such a place? What would be the common perception (from both sexes) of a man wishing to exist in an extremely effeminite world? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #214 January 7, 2007 Now I remember why I do not venture into the Speakers Corner... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #215 January 7, 2007 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not exactly trying to impress -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteI know you're not, dude. You're merely clinging to something you value greatly. You fear change will take that away from you. It won't ...unless you force it to by refusing to grow. Typical woman. Always trying to change a man into something that he isn't. If God had wanted us to be touchy, feely and talk a mile a minute, he would have made us into women. If there really was a god, she would have put your dicks on your chins. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jasmin 0 #216 January 7, 2007 QuoteI've known a Australian female Soldier who went out on a patrol into the jungle with the rest of the team who were men. She didn't shit for four days as she was to embarrased and held her pee in as long as possible so she wouldn't have to go in front of them much. I wouldn't want the person covering me to be concentrating on their bladder or trying not to follow through when they farted. Women in front line units are a stupid idea. Women like this give the rest of us a bad name That you think all Australian/global women are like this is as distressing as the thought that idiotic and 'precious' women like this are serving with my man, my mates (male and female) and my brother. I'm against the double standard and all for same rules, same fitness standard, same everything. If someone can then hold their own, what's the problem?xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #217 January 7, 2007 QuoteWas it paintball or MILES? It was hilarious! It was an FX Sim munition. Think a reduced charge 9MM pistol casing with a small paint filled plastic bullet. They hurt like HELL on exposed skin. That poor instructor was walking around for the next week with a huge whelt on his forehead. Usually everyone wears a full face helmet a bit like one for skydiving. These guys were just wearing safety glasses because they were "out of play" and just there to grade us and observe. This isn't supposed to be a "learning" environment. People that work with me are supposed to ALREADY be accomplished professionals and mearly demonstrating knowledge and skills they have. The instructor was so shocked that he said it took him about a minute to realize that she ACTUALLY shot him right in the forehead. I almost fell out of the chair listening to him tell the story. QuoteIt's the ASSUMPTION that the female can't do the job. Actually, in this case it was just the opposite. The "leadership" wanted to make sure that she was treated COMPLETLY fairly. If anything I think there was an assumption that the instructors would just go through the motions and then dump her no matter what. So there was a lot of pressure to make sure she got a fair shake. If anything those guys proved their professionalism. The girl just didn't have what it takes. Period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #218 January 7, 2007 It was hilarious! It was an FX Sim munition.Quote those things leave scars too, even through clothing, trust meHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #219 January 7, 2007 Quotethose things leave scars too, even through clothing, trust me He probably still has a scar. I have managed to not get any that lasted more than a month or so. I have seen people with scars still after 6 months though. Those things will certainly get your attention! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #220 January 7, 2007 They say the ancient Celts wouldn't send women into battle because they were too vicious. The men could kill and move on. the women would get preoccupied with mutilating their victims, which slowed things down. I suppose sending women into combat would be the egalitarian thing to do and folklore is full of women who disguised them selves as men or boys so they could fight. But in our culture it's too difficult to accept. Congress will never go for it, they have too many daughters. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #221 January 7, 2007 I have seen people with scars still after 6 months though. Quote six months, bro mine are going on 6 years you should see what happened to my knuckle last year, it went through my glove and to this day I can still see some of the plastic under the skin!! I love sims! we had an engineer unit play opfor for us last year, the worst any of our guys got was a hit in the leg, those guys walked out of there looking like they had some new form of cancer that deforms the faceHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #222 January 8, 2007 QuoteI would amend that to also not throwing up extra special roadblocks... I wonder, if in these situations and in affirmative action causes which people: 1 - think that throwing up special roadblocks is biz as usual 2 - think that watering down requirements (for specific groups) to meet a quota is biz as usual 3 - throwing up special roadblocks SHOULD be biz as usual (to protect a class of people) 4 - watered down requirements SHOULD be biz as usual (to show favoritism to correct a perceived imbalance, or even to just favor a group for arbitrary reasons) 5 - all 4 above are wrong regardless of today's or historical status quo ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #223 January 8, 2007 5Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #224 January 8, 2007 Dont forget that the military as an institution has been at the forefront of implimenting huge social change in the past....Integration was a milestone that seems to have worked pretty well considering the prevailing attitude against "negroes" in the ranks. Many of the same kinds of issues were used against women and are still being perpetuated by SOME in the military and society in general...right here in this thread we have heard how some men view women in combat who might be fearfull of breaking a nail...etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #225 January 8, 2007 Quotewomen in combat who might be fearfull of breaking a nail...etc Your other points aside, I've known a few women like this when I was in...and I'm pretty sure you've met a couple like that yourself. I'm *not* saying they're the overwhelming majority, but they ARE out there...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Page 9 of 10 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
happythoughts 0 #210 January 6, 2007 It is a matter of standards and the qualifications to meet those standards. If anyone can't perform to the required level, they do not get the assignment. That seems ultimately fair, but no one is responding to your posts about qualifications, just making rude personal attacks. In any other job where lives are dependent on ability, you would hear no objections. If we were talking about an airline pilots job, and someone did not have the qualifications to be a pilot, I doubt that we would find anyone willing to sit on that plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #211 January 6, 2007 QuoteThey even let her stay after she shot an instructor square in the forehead while clearing a room. Quote That has to be a funny story. Unless of course it was a live fire excercise. Was it paintball or MILES?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #212 January 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteI would amend that to also not throwing up extra special roadblocks I know that happens a lot.......... This where one of the prolems lie. It's the ASSUMPTION that the female can't do the job. It's the belief that they CAN'T meet the requirements simply because they have two X's and are missing a penis. It's the belief of superiority that is the issue. The other issue is that to advance beyond certain ranks, it becomes almost a requirement to have certain experience. I'm not saying that women need to have a day in battle so that they can become General... but if you exclude women from combat.... could they become a General? Glass slipper equals a glass ceiling. Personal beliefs... I understand what you guys are saying and I know you want someone big in your corner in the heat of battle. But listen (no... I mean really LISTEN) to the counter arguments that are made about your assumptions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vortexring 0 #213 January 6, 2007 It's not so much someone big Karen - more their mentality in certain situations many soldiers have been finding themselves in recently. It's a mentality women don't normally have, because their, well, women! No big deal - I'm not suggesting a firefight may be lost through women in the section being distracted by broken nails or by being distracted by a nice kitten for example. () It's a 'controlled' agression they normally don't posess. In fact, contolled psychosis is perhaps more nearer to the truth. I'm deliberatly avoiding examples simply because they're rather horrifying for the more delicate amongst us. Patronising? Perhaps. There definently exists a place for women in the military - without a doubt. But why are very, very few women capable of passing the cadres and selections for the more 'elite' units? Why, despite numerous attempts, some have yet to do so? I'm aware a women passed the All Arms Commando course in the UK, but these soldiers are pretty much normal infantry anyway. Infantry is certainly not one of them. Neither is close quarter battle with a desperate enemy either. Still, thinking about that one, I think my wife might be up to the job if she could, where necessary, get as angry and psychotic as the time when I.... In fact, forget it Edit: In the British Army, everyone is officially a soldier - but for me a soldier is when your out taking on the enemy. Not filing paper, or driving a truck, or even firing artillary shells. Soldiers exist in a so called tough and macho world. Why on earth would a lady wish to work in such a place? What would be the common perception (from both sexes) of a man wishing to exist in an extremely effeminite world? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #214 January 7, 2007 Now I remember why I do not venture into the Speakers Corner... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #215 January 7, 2007 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not exactly trying to impress -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteI know you're not, dude. You're merely clinging to something you value greatly. You fear change will take that away from you. It won't ...unless you force it to by refusing to grow. Typical woman. Always trying to change a man into something that he isn't. If God had wanted us to be touchy, feely and talk a mile a minute, he would have made us into women. If there really was a god, she would have put your dicks on your chins. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jasmin 0 #216 January 7, 2007 QuoteI've known a Australian female Soldier who went out on a patrol into the jungle with the rest of the team who were men. She didn't shit for four days as she was to embarrased and held her pee in as long as possible so she wouldn't have to go in front of them much. I wouldn't want the person covering me to be concentrating on their bladder or trying not to follow through when they farted. Women in front line units are a stupid idea. Women like this give the rest of us a bad name That you think all Australian/global women are like this is as distressing as the thought that idiotic and 'precious' women like this are serving with my man, my mates (male and female) and my brother. I'm against the double standard and all for same rules, same fitness standard, same everything. If someone can then hold their own, what's the problem?xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #217 January 7, 2007 QuoteWas it paintball or MILES? It was hilarious! It was an FX Sim munition. Think a reduced charge 9MM pistol casing with a small paint filled plastic bullet. They hurt like HELL on exposed skin. That poor instructor was walking around for the next week with a huge whelt on his forehead. Usually everyone wears a full face helmet a bit like one for skydiving. These guys were just wearing safety glasses because they were "out of play" and just there to grade us and observe. This isn't supposed to be a "learning" environment. People that work with me are supposed to ALREADY be accomplished professionals and mearly demonstrating knowledge and skills they have. The instructor was so shocked that he said it took him about a minute to realize that she ACTUALLY shot him right in the forehead. I almost fell out of the chair listening to him tell the story. QuoteIt's the ASSUMPTION that the female can't do the job. Actually, in this case it was just the opposite. The "leadership" wanted to make sure that she was treated COMPLETLY fairly. If anything I think there was an assumption that the instructors would just go through the motions and then dump her no matter what. So there was a lot of pressure to make sure she got a fair shake. If anything those guys proved their professionalism. The girl just didn't have what it takes. Period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #218 January 7, 2007 It was hilarious! It was an FX Sim munition.Quote those things leave scars too, even through clothing, trust meHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #219 January 7, 2007 Quotethose things leave scars too, even through clothing, trust me He probably still has a scar. I have managed to not get any that lasted more than a month or so. I have seen people with scars still after 6 months though. Those things will certainly get your attention! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #220 January 7, 2007 They say the ancient Celts wouldn't send women into battle because they were too vicious. The men could kill and move on. the women would get preoccupied with mutilating their victims, which slowed things down. I suppose sending women into combat would be the egalitarian thing to do and folklore is full of women who disguised them selves as men or boys so they could fight. But in our culture it's too difficult to accept. Congress will never go for it, they have too many daughters. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #221 January 7, 2007 I have seen people with scars still after 6 months though. Quote six months, bro mine are going on 6 years you should see what happened to my knuckle last year, it went through my glove and to this day I can still see some of the plastic under the skin!! I love sims! we had an engineer unit play opfor for us last year, the worst any of our guys got was a hit in the leg, those guys walked out of there looking like they had some new form of cancer that deforms the faceHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #222 January 8, 2007 QuoteI would amend that to also not throwing up extra special roadblocks... I wonder, if in these situations and in affirmative action causes which people: 1 - think that throwing up special roadblocks is biz as usual 2 - think that watering down requirements (for specific groups) to meet a quota is biz as usual 3 - throwing up special roadblocks SHOULD be biz as usual (to protect a class of people) 4 - watered down requirements SHOULD be biz as usual (to show favoritism to correct a perceived imbalance, or even to just favor a group for arbitrary reasons) 5 - all 4 above are wrong regardless of today's or historical status quo ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #223 January 8, 2007 5Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #224 January 8, 2007 Dont forget that the military as an institution has been at the forefront of implimenting huge social change in the past....Integration was a milestone that seems to have worked pretty well considering the prevailing attitude against "negroes" in the ranks. Many of the same kinds of issues were used against women and are still being perpetuated by SOME in the military and society in general...right here in this thread we have heard how some men view women in combat who might be fearfull of breaking a nail...etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #225 January 8, 2007 Quotewomen in combat who might be fearfull of breaking a nail...etc Your other points aside, I've known a few women like this when I was in...and I'm pretty sure you've met a couple like that yourself. I'm *not* saying they're the overwhelming majority, but they ARE out there...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Page 9 of 10 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kbordson 8 #212 January 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteI would amend that to also not throwing up extra special roadblocks I know that happens a lot.......... This where one of the prolems lie. It's the ASSUMPTION that the female can't do the job. It's the belief that they CAN'T meet the requirements simply because they have two X's and are missing a penis. It's the belief of superiority that is the issue. The other issue is that to advance beyond certain ranks, it becomes almost a requirement to have certain experience. I'm not saying that women need to have a day in battle so that they can become General... but if you exclude women from combat.... could they become a General? Glass slipper equals a glass ceiling. Personal beliefs... I understand what you guys are saying and I know you want someone big in your corner in the heat of battle. But listen (no... I mean really LISTEN) to the counter arguments that are made about your assumptions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #213 January 6, 2007 It's not so much someone big Karen - more their mentality in certain situations many soldiers have been finding themselves in recently. It's a mentality women don't normally have, because their, well, women! No big deal - I'm not suggesting a firefight may be lost through women in the section being distracted by broken nails or by being distracted by a nice kitten for example. () It's a 'controlled' agression they normally don't posess. In fact, contolled psychosis is perhaps more nearer to the truth. I'm deliberatly avoiding examples simply because they're rather horrifying for the more delicate amongst us. Patronising? Perhaps. There definently exists a place for women in the military - without a doubt. But why are very, very few women capable of passing the cadres and selections for the more 'elite' units? Why, despite numerous attempts, some have yet to do so? I'm aware a women passed the All Arms Commando course in the UK, but these soldiers are pretty much normal infantry anyway. Infantry is certainly not one of them. Neither is close quarter battle with a desperate enemy either. Still, thinking about that one, I think my wife might be up to the job if she could, where necessary, get as angry and psychotic as the time when I.... In fact, forget it Edit: In the British Army, everyone is officially a soldier - but for me a soldier is when your out taking on the enemy. Not filing paper, or driving a truck, or even firing artillary shells. Soldiers exist in a so called tough and macho world. Why on earth would a lady wish to work in such a place? What would be the common perception (from both sexes) of a man wishing to exist in an extremely effeminite world? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #214 January 7, 2007 Now I remember why I do not venture into the Speakers Corner... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #215 January 7, 2007 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not exactly trying to impress -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteI know you're not, dude. You're merely clinging to something you value greatly. You fear change will take that away from you. It won't ...unless you force it to by refusing to grow. Typical woman. Always trying to change a man into something that he isn't. If God had wanted us to be touchy, feely and talk a mile a minute, he would have made us into women. If there really was a god, she would have put your dicks on your chins. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasmin 0 #216 January 7, 2007 QuoteI've known a Australian female Soldier who went out on a patrol into the jungle with the rest of the team who were men. She didn't shit for four days as she was to embarrased and held her pee in as long as possible so she wouldn't have to go in front of them much. I wouldn't want the person covering me to be concentrating on their bladder or trying not to follow through when they farted. Women in front line units are a stupid idea. Women like this give the rest of us a bad name That you think all Australian/global women are like this is as distressing as the thought that idiotic and 'precious' women like this are serving with my man, my mates (male and female) and my brother. I'm against the double standard and all for same rules, same fitness standard, same everything. If someone can then hold their own, what's the problem?xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #217 January 7, 2007 QuoteWas it paintball or MILES? It was hilarious! It was an FX Sim munition. Think a reduced charge 9MM pistol casing with a small paint filled plastic bullet. They hurt like HELL on exposed skin. That poor instructor was walking around for the next week with a huge whelt on his forehead. Usually everyone wears a full face helmet a bit like one for skydiving. These guys were just wearing safety glasses because they were "out of play" and just there to grade us and observe. This isn't supposed to be a "learning" environment. People that work with me are supposed to ALREADY be accomplished professionals and mearly demonstrating knowledge and skills they have. The instructor was so shocked that he said it took him about a minute to realize that she ACTUALLY shot him right in the forehead. I almost fell out of the chair listening to him tell the story. QuoteIt's the ASSUMPTION that the female can't do the job. Actually, in this case it was just the opposite. The "leadership" wanted to make sure that she was treated COMPLETLY fairly. If anything I think there was an assumption that the instructors would just go through the motions and then dump her no matter what. So there was a lot of pressure to make sure she got a fair shake. If anything those guys proved their professionalism. The girl just didn't have what it takes. Period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #218 January 7, 2007 It was hilarious! It was an FX Sim munition.Quote those things leave scars too, even through clothing, trust meHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #219 January 7, 2007 Quotethose things leave scars too, even through clothing, trust me He probably still has a scar. I have managed to not get any that lasted more than a month or so. I have seen people with scars still after 6 months though. Those things will certainly get your attention! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #220 January 7, 2007 They say the ancient Celts wouldn't send women into battle because they were too vicious. The men could kill and move on. the women would get preoccupied with mutilating their victims, which slowed things down. I suppose sending women into combat would be the egalitarian thing to do and folklore is full of women who disguised them selves as men or boys so they could fight. But in our culture it's too difficult to accept. Congress will never go for it, they have too many daughters. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #221 January 7, 2007 I have seen people with scars still after 6 months though. Quote six months, bro mine are going on 6 years you should see what happened to my knuckle last year, it went through my glove and to this day I can still see some of the plastic under the skin!! I love sims! we had an engineer unit play opfor for us last year, the worst any of our guys got was a hit in the leg, those guys walked out of there looking like they had some new form of cancer that deforms the faceHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #222 January 8, 2007 QuoteI would amend that to also not throwing up extra special roadblocks... I wonder, if in these situations and in affirmative action causes which people: 1 - think that throwing up special roadblocks is biz as usual 2 - think that watering down requirements (for specific groups) to meet a quota is biz as usual 3 - throwing up special roadblocks SHOULD be biz as usual (to protect a class of people) 4 - watered down requirements SHOULD be biz as usual (to show favoritism to correct a perceived imbalance, or even to just favor a group for arbitrary reasons) 5 - all 4 above are wrong regardless of today's or historical status quo ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #223 January 8, 2007 5Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #224 January 8, 2007 Dont forget that the military as an institution has been at the forefront of implimenting huge social change in the past....Integration was a milestone that seems to have worked pretty well considering the prevailing attitude against "negroes" in the ranks. Many of the same kinds of issues were used against women and are still being perpetuated by SOME in the military and society in general...right here in this thread we have heard how some men view women in combat who might be fearfull of breaking a nail...etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #225 January 8, 2007 Quotewomen in combat who might be fearfull of breaking a nail...etc Your other points aside, I've known a few women like this when I was in...and I'm pretty sure you've met a couple like that yourself. I'm *not* saying they're the overwhelming majority, but they ARE out there...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Page 9 of 10 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
freeflir29 0 #219 January 7, 2007 Quotethose things leave scars too, even through clothing, trust me He probably still has a scar. I have managed to not get any that lasted more than a month or so. I have seen people with scars still after 6 months though. Those things will certainly get your attention! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #220 January 7, 2007 They say the ancient Celts wouldn't send women into battle because they were too vicious. The men could kill and move on. the women would get preoccupied with mutilating their victims, which slowed things down. I suppose sending women into combat would be the egalitarian thing to do and folklore is full of women who disguised them selves as men or boys so they could fight. But in our culture it's too difficult to accept. Congress will never go for it, they have too many daughters. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #221 January 7, 2007 I have seen people with scars still after 6 months though. Quote six months, bro mine are going on 6 years you should see what happened to my knuckle last year, it went through my glove and to this day I can still see some of the plastic under the skin!! I love sims! we had an engineer unit play opfor for us last year, the worst any of our guys got was a hit in the leg, those guys walked out of there looking like they had some new form of cancer that deforms the faceHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #222 January 8, 2007 QuoteI would amend that to also not throwing up extra special roadblocks... I wonder, if in these situations and in affirmative action causes which people: 1 - think that throwing up special roadblocks is biz as usual 2 - think that watering down requirements (for specific groups) to meet a quota is biz as usual 3 - throwing up special roadblocks SHOULD be biz as usual (to protect a class of people) 4 - watered down requirements SHOULD be biz as usual (to show favoritism to correct a perceived imbalance, or even to just favor a group for arbitrary reasons) 5 - all 4 above are wrong regardless of today's or historical status quo ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #223 January 8, 2007 5Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #224 January 8, 2007 Dont forget that the military as an institution has been at the forefront of implimenting huge social change in the past....Integration was a milestone that seems to have worked pretty well considering the prevailing attitude against "negroes" in the ranks. Many of the same kinds of issues were used against women and are still being perpetuated by SOME in the military and society in general...right here in this thread we have heard how some men view women in combat who might be fearfull of breaking a nail...etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #225 January 8, 2007 Quotewomen in combat who might be fearfull of breaking a nail...etc Your other points aside, I've known a few women like this when I was in...and I'm pretty sure you've met a couple like that yourself. I'm *not* saying they're the overwhelming majority, but they ARE out there...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Page 9 of 10 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
rehmwa 2 #222 January 8, 2007 QuoteI would amend that to also not throwing up extra special roadblocks... I wonder, if in these situations and in affirmative action causes which people: 1 - think that throwing up special roadblocks is biz as usual 2 - think that watering down requirements (for specific groups) to meet a quota is biz as usual 3 - throwing up special roadblocks SHOULD be biz as usual (to protect a class of people) 4 - watered down requirements SHOULD be biz as usual (to show favoritism to correct a perceived imbalance, or even to just favor a group for arbitrary reasons) 5 - all 4 above are wrong regardless of today's or historical status quo ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #223 January 8, 2007 5Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #224 January 8, 2007 Dont forget that the military as an institution has been at the forefront of implimenting huge social change in the past....Integration was a milestone that seems to have worked pretty well considering the prevailing attitude against "negroes" in the ranks. Many of the same kinds of issues were used against women and are still being perpetuated by SOME in the military and society in general...right here in this thread we have heard how some men view women in combat who might be fearfull of breaking a nail...etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #225 January 8, 2007 Quotewomen in combat who might be fearfull of breaking a nail...etc Your other points aside, I've known a few women like this when I was in...and I'm pretty sure you've met a couple like that yourself. I'm *not* saying they're the overwhelming majority, but they ARE out there...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
