Mockingbird 0 #776 January 17, 2007 No serious answers concerning the Roman guards around the tomb, huh?Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #777 January 17, 2007 QuoteNo serious answers concerning the Roman guards around the tomb, huh? already answered.. Please provide evidence they were EVER ordered to do as your text claims...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #778 January 17, 2007 QuoteIf you actually faced the Almighty, what would you ask Him if you only had one question? Are talking about Arizona Airspeed? That's really 9 people, not just one "Him" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #779 January 17, 2007 Quoteplease please NEVER EVER EVER serve on a jury... in fact when you are being interviewed make absolutely certain you tell the lawyer that you accept the Bible as proof of God BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT, so they can exclude you as a 'reasonable' person when someones life may be at stake. What is the difference between believing something beyond a reasonable doubt and believing something beyond the shadow of a doubt? (I noticed that you're calling the evidence I've cited in this thread "proof" again. I've never called it proof.)Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #780 January 17, 2007 QuoteNo serious answers concerning the Roman guards around the tomb, huh? I replied. You may infer what I think of your "proof" of the veracity of the myth.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #781 January 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteNo serious answers concerning the Roman guards around the tomb, huh? already answered.. Actually, my comment was directed to kallend who often has to revert to strawmen, as he did in this case. QuotePlease provide evidence they were EVER ordered to do as your text claims... I take it you want a secular source, such as a 1st century historian's account of the death of Christ. I'm sorry; I don't have a source like that at my fingertips. Until I do, I have no reason to doubt the people who were there at the time and knew how it went down.Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #782 January 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteNo serious answers concerning the Roman guards around the tomb, huh? already answered.. Actually, my comment was directed to kallend who often has to revert to strawmen, as he did in this case. QuotePlease provide evidence they were EVER ordered to do as your text claims... I take it you want a secular source, such as a 1st century historian's account of the death of Christ. I'm sorry; I don't have a source like that at my fingertips. Until I do, I have no reason to doubt the people who were there at the time and knew how it went down. You mean you have no reason to doubt the marketing hype of those trying to promote their new product - Christianity. I hear there's a nice bridge for sale in New York.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #783 January 17, 2007 Quote Until I do, I have no reason to doubt the people who were there at the time and knew how it went down. ok then.. how about you provide Evidence that ANY of the Authors (and you cant prove Authorship of your TEXTS either) mentioned WERE ACTUALLY Witnesses? Cant do that? How about evidence (same objective standard applies) that the stories were even DICTATED by anyone who was actually there.. (some 115 years later by the MOST GENEROUS estimations) you still dont get it.. Just because someone writes something down, DOES NOT MAKE IT FACTUAL. Particularly when there is an obvious agenda involved. If you cannot admit that Early Christians DID HAVE A CLEAR AGENDA then i'm done discussing this with you. You've illustrated the online equivalent of "nah nah nah i cant hear you..." and honestly, as youve shown your self to be more educated and mature than that, it is rather disappointing. what part of BIAS dont you understand? Such obvious BIAS calls ALL CLAIMS into question, but you STILL chose to Believe.. and that is your fundamental failure. Do you also believe in UFO abductions? they have the same veracity.. and some of them you can actually interview if you wish...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #784 January 17, 2007 >Are talking about Arizona Airspeed? That's really 9 people . . . Not any more. Now they're just 5. You can call them the "Quintity." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #785 January 17, 2007 Quote>Are talking about Arizona Airspeed? That's really 9 people . . . Not any more. Now they're just 5. You can call them the "Quintity." I thought the reference was to B.J. Worth.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #786 January 17, 2007 The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. John 14:17 I think you are casting pearls in the wrong direction, Cannie. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #787 January 18, 2007 ah the next 'dodge'... cant logically, rationally justify your position? pretend your "opponents" are not worthy of your 'wisdom' sad and childish.. but expected from Bronze age superstitions...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #788 January 18, 2007 No, sorry, you misunderstood me. You guys have logic and scientific reasoning down real well. You have not had a spiritual experience with Christ. That precludes you from understanding our shared experienced. My observation is that the debate is not positive at this point and really far from the original thread intent. It appears more like "I'm a Christian and proud of it. Part two" As far as the pearls statement. It is a quote from christ that talks about the fact some just don't get the spiritual experience. It is rather harsh, I admit, but i didn't intend for it to imply anybody here who is an atheist/agnostic is a swine. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #789 January 18, 2007 QuoteYou have not had a spiritual experience with Christ Neither have you..............----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #790 January 18, 2007 You say that with such certainty. I realize you do not believe such experience is possible. However, the fact that you do not recognize my experiences doesn't change me or the experience i had and have. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #791 January 18, 2007 Quote You say that with such certainty. I realize you do not believe such experience is possible. However, the fact that you do not recognize my experiences doesn't change me or the experience i had and have. I recognise that you probably had an "experience", however I would be willing to bet everything I have that it wasn't your god.. The mind is a powerfull thing, there are plenty of people who are convinced they have seen a ghost.........----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #792 January 18, 2007 As I have said in other threads. Not only have I studied theology extensively and have a Master's degree in it, I have had an experience with Christ that is more real than just about anything I have ever experienced. BTW, you are betting everything. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #793 January 18, 2007 Okay I know I speak for just myself here, and most atheists may disagree with me on this point.. Regardless....I can understand and accept that you can have a spiritual experience through followings Jesus' teachings. I can fully accept, and agree with, that following Jesus' teachings will make you a better person and your life will be more filling in doing so. What I refuse to accept is that the ONLY spiritual experience that one can have is through Jesus, and that the ONLY path to purity is through Jesus.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #794 January 18, 2007 QuoteAs I have said in other threads. Not only have I studied theology extensively and have a Master's degree in it, I have had an experience with Christ that is more real than just about anything I have ever experienced. BTW, you are betting everything. ok for the benefit of myself, could you provide a quick explanation of your "experience"?----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #795 January 18, 2007 Quote What is the difference between believing something beyond a reasonable doubt and believing something beyond the shadow of a doubt? One is a legal standard of proof. The other is a metaphorical expression of certainty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #796 January 18, 2007 QuoteWhat I refuse to accept is that the ONLY spiritual experience that one can have is through Jesus, and that the ONLY path to purity is through Jesus. Believe me, I understand that problem. Recently I read a book about four views of salvation in a pluralistic world. Basically they are: 1) a pluralistic view 2) An inclusivist view 3) A particularist view: a post-enlightenment approach 4) A particularist view: a evidentialist approach It is a stimulating book for those who can think constructively outside their own upbringing and worldview. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #797 January 18, 2007 Could you send me the name of that book? I don't know when I'd get a chance to read it at the moment, but I like reading about different ideas, as long as they -are- objectively offered.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #798 January 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhat I refuse to accept is that the ONLY spiritual experience that one can have is through Jesus, and that the ONLY path to purity is through Jesus. Believe me, I understand that problem. Recently I read a book about four views of salvation in a pluralistic world. Basically they are: 1) a pluralistic view 2) An inclusivist view 3) A particularist view: a post-enlightenment approach 4) A particularist view: a evidentialist approach It is a stimulating book for those who can think constructively outside their own upbringing and worldview. I'm not sure whether or not that was a veiled insult. However, my worldview is quite at variance with my upbringing, which was in a Christian household, Sunday School, Bible study at regular school twice a week for 12 years, prayers every morning at school, member of the school's Christian Union, Christian summer camp, sang in church choir... Eventually I thought about it rather than mindlessly accepting the indoctrination, and came to the conclusion it was all a gigantic fraud.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #799 January 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteAs I have said in other threads. Not only have I studied theology extensively and have a Master's degree in it, I have had an experience with Christ that is more real than just about anything I have ever experienced. BTW, you are betting everything. ok for the benefit of myself, could you provide a quick explanation of your "experience"? I doubt I could give a "quick" explanation of something that has so captivated my life for decades on end. Perhaps I can give you a glimpse. In 1977 I left my father and my wife in two hospitals to go to Airborne school. I never felt so alone in my life. I checked into a Motel 6 outside Benning about 2 AM. Searching for answers I looked into a Gideon's bible in the night stand. It said if you feel lonely, read this: Hebrews 3:13. God has said, "Never will I leave you or forsake you." I prayed to God, "if you are real, please let me know. I didn't have a vision or anything, but I began to sense a presence and comfort that I could not explain. A few weeks later my wife and father (and mom) drove to Benning to watch me graduate. Some will say, no biggee. However, to me it was a journey that became more real than life itself. Later my wife accidently drove over my 18 month old son Drew, and I was told he was killed. I was in a panic, but God assured me he was not forsaking me. Drew turned out fine. No injuries whatsover, not even a bruise, just a sleeper with tire tracks over it. A few years later I buried my mom & dad in '83 & '85.That same comfort was felt as I watched their coffins decend into the grave. I have 100s of such stories in my life. Right now I lean heavily on God as my son-in-law is in Irag (3rd tour overseas) and that litle baby Drew is now a 23 year old soldier in Afghanistan. The experience I have is one of 'presence' 'comfort' "joy" and 'peace', among other things. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #800 January 18, 2007 QuoteI'm not sure whether or not that was a veiled insult. Actually, I was referring to Christians who seldom can see outside their own denominational worldview. But that being said, I guess it applies to atheists too. No insults intended. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
