David Irving 'Holocaust never happened'

[Skyrad 0]

David Irving was released from prison today having served 13 Months of a three year prison sentence for denying the Holocaust.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/irving/article/0,2763,181045,00.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mnealtx 0]

Not the brightest bulb in the box, is he?

Hmm...come to think of it, doesn't Ahmadinejad deny the Holocaust, too?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Butters 0]

Those that deny history will never learn from history.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[masterrig 1]

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Not the brightest bulb in the box, is he?

Hmm...come to think of it, doesn't Ahmadinejad deny the Holocaust, too?

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I wonder, what the survivors of the Holocaust think about that? They shoulda' kept that guy awhile longer.


Chuck

[bazelos 0]

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"I was put in prison for three years for expressing an opinion 17 years ago,"

This is sickening. We call ourselfs free people, who have the right of free speech when it comes to drawing Muhammed with a turban-bomb, but when someone denies the holocaust they are jailed. I don't deny the holocaust, it was a dark time in history when millions of Jews, communists, gypsies, and all seen as a threat to Hitler where executed. Yes, but that's something that happened half a century ago, in the same time that 20 milion Russians where being killed fighting Hitler. Why is it brought up again and again?

If Austria, or any other country, wants to be called a free country then it has to allow voices that they oppose, they even have to allow far-right parties, fascists, neo Nazis, etc. to gather, voice their oppinions like civilised people. Do crack down on them if they act upon their racist agenda, but if they only hang around with white people, get hardons from saying how cool their race is and how inferior everyone else is, so be it.

I am liberal, I do not judge people from the colour of their skin, their religion, or their country of origin -who am I to judge anyone, anyway- but to jail someone because they merely expressing an opinion should be a crime.

Disgusting.

He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.

[Skyrad 0]

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Not the brightest bulb in the box, is he?

Hmm...come to think of it, doesn't Ahmadinejad deny the Holocaust, too?

I guess he won't be making any state visits to Austria any time soon

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

What if the opinion was expressed by someone that the 9/11 attacks were legitimate acts of war and that the people in the towers deserved to die as they were an ecomonic target working to supress the Islamic people of the world. Would you still feel the same way?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[bazelos 0]

I could be wrong but a country had to deglair war against the US in order to carry out an act of war, so his theory would be flawed from the begining. Of course that's not the point of your question, and me not being an American I don't feel it as close as New Yorkers do, I do think it was a crime and it's a terrible way for so many lifes to be lost. But for all I care someone could say that these people deserved to die because they where sinners, and whoever did the attacts carried out the wrath of the Lord. Him saying it does not make it right, nor does it desecrates the deaths of the men, women and children lost in that day.

He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.

[Skyrad 0]

Like I said it was just an example. But for the record Usama Bin Laden did declare war on the USA years before the 9/11 attacks in a press conference in Afghanistan. Also it need not be a country that has war declared on it or declares war on a nation. For example Britan declared war on Napoleon Bonapart not on France following his escape from exile a war which culminated in thousands of deaths and the battle of Waterloo.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Loonix 0]

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What if the opinion was expressed by someone that the 9/11 attacks were legitimate acts of war and that the people in the towers deserved to die as they were an ecomonic target working to supress the Islamic people of the world. Would you still feel the same way?

You're saying one should be imprisoned for voicing the opinion that the 9/11 attacks were legitimate? Or just asking... I see no reason for such an opinion to be a crime, at least.

[Skyrad 0]

I'm not saying that I think they were legitimate attacks I'm using it as an example of a statement that many would find abhorant.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[bazelos 0]

Most if not all would, but that doesn't mean we have to imprison someone for merely voicing an oppinion. It's not the nature of the topic he or she is talking about, it's the principle, if today we take away one civil liberty then tomorrow we will take two, and soon we will have none.

He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.

[Skyrad 0]

I actualy agree with you.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[idrankwhat 0]

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What if the opinion was expressed by someone that the 9/11 attacks were legitimate acts of war and that the people in the towers deserved to die as they were an ecomonic target working to supress the Islamic people of the world. Would you still feel the same way?

I don't think that people should be jailed for expressing an opinion. In a free society you should be able to say whatever you want. Now if you say "I'm going to kill so and so" or "fire" then you're just asking for problems because there are potentially real consequences associated with the outburst. But I don't think that you should be thrown in jail for questioning history. I mean, should I be thrown in prison for saying "nawwww.....we weren't that mean to the Native American people. It wasn't as bad as all that"?

[Andy9o8 3]

Article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-ali16dec16,0,2351518.story?coll=la-home-commentary

Why the Muslim world denies the Holocaust

[Loonix 0]

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I'm not saying that I think they were legitimate attacks I'm using it as an example of a statement that many would find abhorant.

I did not claim that either, but it sounded like you felt people making that claim should be imprisoned, or at least that it should be illegal.

[Amazon 7]

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This is sickening. We call ourselfs free people, who have the right of free speech when it comes to drawing Muhammed with a turban-bomb, but when someone denies the holocaust they are jailed.

I would think it more appropriate to put them in a Auchwitz style concentration camp... and ship them in a cattle car from site to site of Bergen Beltzen.. and ALL of the other extermination camps....

[rehmwa 2]

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I would think it more appropriate to put them in a Auchwitz style concentration camp... and ship them in a cattle car from site to site of Bergen Beltzen.. and ALL of the other extermination camps....

are we talking about the fat British kids over now?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[bazelos 0]

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I would think it more appropriate to put them in a Auchwitz style concentration camp... and ship them in a cattle car from site to site of Bergen Beltzen.. and ALL of the other extermination camps....

An eye for an eye? What good would come out of that?

He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.

[Amazon 7]

I dont know.. but I have always thought a bit of reality training for those who do not believe something.. helps with the belief factor....

[bazelos 0]

It's the same like telling non-believers that they will burn in Hell's flames for the rest of the eternity. To be honest, I don't know what exactly Irving wrote in his book and said in his speeches, from what I gather he is debating the existance of the gas chambers in Auswich. In any way, I am sure these people know how cruel and inhuman the conditions where at the camps, it won't be news to them.

He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.

[Amazon 7]

Hell there are still THOUSANDS of our GI's still alive who found those camps..they certainly dont have any problem believing they were real or that the piles of hair from the dead... or the piles of clothing and belongings.. were real. Then there were always the barely living in the camps that they found... surrounded by the bodies of the thousands who barely did not make it....pretty hard to deny those when so many witnessed it first hand... Strange how if it was all made up.. how THOUSANDS of survivors got the same story right.. every time.

[kelpdiver 2]

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This is sickening. We call ourselfs free people, who have the right of free speech when it comes to drawing Muhammed with a turban-bomb, but when someone denies the holocaust they are jailed.

I would think it more appropriate to put them in a Auchwitz style concentration camp... and ship them in a cattle car from site to site of Bergen Beltzen.. and ALL of the other extermination camps....

in other words, you support reeducation camps for those that speak out opposing views.

It's a step up from death camps, but still pretty sad.

[Andy9o8 3]

From an American perspective:

- Denial of the Holocaust is abominable, and is a tool of bigotry.

- In a free, open and self-confident society, criminalizing any type of "opinion" or "slanderous" speech (for example, Holocaust denial) is also abominable, for it cuts against a society which is stable and healthy enough to actually BE a free and open society, and that means permitting even that type of expression which most people consider vile. Freedom of only popular speech is not freedom of speech at all, and suppression of the expression of opinions, even vile ones, is a hallmark of a repressive society.

- In a free, open and self-confident society, the best and most moral way to combat expressions of vile ideas is either to (a) ignore it, so it will wither away from lack of attention, which is the nutrition it thrives on, or (b) speak out the TRUTH, and allow the Truth to win out by colliding with Error in the free marketplace of ideas.

[Amazon 7]

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in other words, you support reeducation camps for those that speak out opposing views.

It's a step up from death camps, but still pretty sad.

Nope..... but since they do not BELIEVE they existed.. you can SHOW them that they did... sort of like a Death Camp Tour of Europe.... with the transportation done in the same kind of conditions that the original camps were populated by. Perhaps you could even run them into the "showers".... but just spray them with water instead of the ZyglonB