England: "Ban" Air Guns

[vortexring 0]

Yeah - bring back old fashioned discipline and real solid family values.

Isn't it crazy your better off financially being a single parent in this country?

Gay weddings??? Fucking immoral as sin.

Gay couples adopting? Madness.

Litigation?

Chalk boards?

THE LIST IS FAST BECOMING ENDLESS.

People no longer accept their moral responsibility.
I think I first felt old one evening viewing the X factor and watching these completely uneducated and untalented freakezoids literally in tears having been fucked off by the judges for being freakezoids.
They couldn't accept the moral responsibility of being freakezoids and dealing with the problem in a mature fashion, so felt obliged to try and become one of the rich and famous dickheads they worship -

Sod it, I have not the time to rant on about this.

I could present this entire thread in a more articulate manner but whats the point?

Christianity no longer exists - the rich idle and famous are our Gods.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

Or simply get an older 'mate' to buy it for you?

Most parents around those times I mentioned were unaware their children 'owned' weapons and were cutting about the woods shooting anything moving with air rifles, pistols, black widow catapaults, crossbows and what have you.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Skyrad 0]

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Christianity no longer exists - the rich idle and famous are our Gods.

While I agree with the second part of your statement I'd disagree with the first part. There still are alot of REAL Christians in the UK and live their belifes but this is no longer a Christian country about that you are right. I've noticed that as belife in God declines antisocial behaviour and the disintegration of society increases. I've noticed it alot in Ireland with the decline of Catholisim (Relativly speaking)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[vortexring 0]

I meant Christianities reflection of our societies general interactions no longer exists.

Whilst religion can often do more harm than good as seen throughout history, at the very least the 10 Commandments are the foundation of any society yet today they are completely and utterly disregarded. As you mentioned in your previous point.

I'm sometimes horrified by peoples behaviour.

Especially my own!!!

But, despite being no saint, I'm continually wondering, what on earth is wrong with people these days?

Whats gone wrong or missing from their lives to behave in such a way?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Skyrad 0]

I really do belive its God. People don't belive in anything bigger than themselves and I don't think that is healthy. Also a sense of social responsibility or personal respect or respect for others. Also fear, be it fear of God or fear of punishment. Kids know they can quite literally get away with murder these days.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[JohnRich 4]

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Your title would indicate that England had already banned airguns.

No, that would require the past tense for the word "ban", or "banned", and the dropping of the colon. For example; "Scotland Banned Airguns". The use of the colon was a clue that this was something under consideration in that country, and not an outright declarative statement. Furthermore, you should have noted that the word "ban" was in quotes, which meant that it is not to be taken literally, because the proposal would only ban their presence in homes, but not ownership. Finally, the quote I provided from the article as well as my own text, made it clear what is going on with this story.

You should spend more time on reading and thinking critically, and less time on jumping to criticize.

So, do you agree with this proposal, or not?

[JohnRich 4]

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John takes ALOT of flak for his gun posts but I'm glad he posted this one... On a further note, John and I have disagreed on a regular basis about many things but it would be nice if people read the post and judged it on its merits or otherwise rather than just seeing who posted it and writing it off straight away.

Wow, thank you. For that, I'm going to give you a pass the next time I'm thinking of jumping on you for something. Sort of like a Monopoly game "Get out of jail free" card.

- John

[JohnRich 4]

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Do you ever have anything constructive to offer?

Yes dear JR, I have - I could provide a fine trip report about the weeks I recently spent in the Kalahari desert of South Africa and Botswana and my visit to Kruger Park - but wouldn't that be kinda spin-off?

Start your own thread. It's irrelevant here. Unless you went big game hunting with an air rifle.

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So, coming back to your ""Ban" Air Guns.... " - there's nothing intelligent to say on it.

Which means what? Once again you speak in meaningless sentences. Do you think banning air guns is a good idea or a dumb idea?

[steve1 5]

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I really enjoyed mine when I was younger... They dont really have any point but are fun & I wouldn't ban then - Daft Idea IMHO

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My early days of hunting, with my trusty ole Daisy BB gun, were wonderful. Few birds were safe in my neighborhoold during those years, and none of us shot our eyes out. When we graduated to Pellet guns this was really a big step up. These were really high tech compared to our measley BB guns. We could then hunt truly big critters, like gophers and squirrels. This was first rate, high adventure for a kid.

Although I was growing up in a single parent home, being raised by an alcoholic father, all that was forgotten when I was afield with my rifle. To tell you the truth, I think it was fishing and hunting that pointed me away from trouble and kept me from becoming a drunk like my old man. I knew there was better things to do in life, than what some of my juvenile delinquent friends were doing.

I feel sorry for kids who don't have fishing and hunting available to them, or for those kids who live in a country where you can't even keep a pellet gun in your home. Just my two cents worth....Steve1

[vortexring 0]

Yeah, I have to agree on there being a lack of belief in the big man. Then again, look at me, referring to him flippantly.

With your referral to something being 'bigger' than one self this made me think of Islam. As far as I know it literally means 'submission to god.' Man, I could really spin off on a tangent now, but despite their faults, no wonder they see us as the Great Satan. Infidels.
(Anyway, this is for another day - an argument on Muslim and Christian merits and failings - I'm wondering if Muslims may well come out ahead.....)
People feel they don't have anybody to answer to, do they?

It's like being pro or anti gun for example.

Both sides have plausable and logical elements to their side of the debate.
You'll never enforce responsible use of weapons.
Why have them then?
Because it's ones right?
This doesn't wash for me - society is better off without them.
Ultimately peoples belief in the necessity of their ownership should be addressed.

But I feel the pro guns people refuse to see the bigger and long term picture of society being better off without them.
I think being pro gun delays this.
This, and many other aspects of a better society will either happen or I believe we're doomed as a species.
Like heading out towards armageddon anybody?

We need to realise a more mature and responsible attitude towards ourselves - with ourselves being society as a whole.

What can you do to better it?

Continue to be narrow minded? Believe only what suits you to believe?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[rehmwa 2]

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But I feel the pro guns people refuse to see the bigger and long term picture of society being better off without them.
I think being pro gun delays this.
This, and many other aspects of a better society will either happen or I believe we're doomed as a species.

This is exactly backwards those that believe in individual rights and responsibility - the basis of which is property ownership and self determination. You aren't advocating gun-nonownership, you are advocating a big brother type of socialism. Not the more watered down version of some Euro nations (which can work well on medium and small societies) but the full blown big-brother-some-pigs-are-more-equal-than-others kind of socialism.

If so, why not just admit it and argue what you really mean.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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Continue to be narrow minded? Believe only what suits you to believe?

Thus, this statement will have an extremely ironic feel to it for over half of the population.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[vortexring 0]

Well, what I really mean is that simply advocating gun ownership doesn't morally address the issue of the necessity to own one, as in, for self defence.

Twin bore for rabbits on the farm? Fine.
Remington .870 magnum? Not so fine.

Air rifle for vermin control? Fine.
M16A2? Not so fine.

The problem will always be their misuse.
From kids shooting old men playing bowls, to the multi-million dollar arms trade, to gangsta rapper type dickheads, to your next door neighbour who unfortunately went a bit mental and murdered 16 children at the local primary school.

Society is better off without them.
As if that's going to happen anytime soon.
But it would be rather nice if it did, what?

Hence being pro gun prevents this.

I'm aware the reality of my point actually happening is beyond unlikely.
But this is part of the problem itself.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[rehmwa 2]

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doesn't morally address the issue of the necessity to own one,

at the point where the government gets to decide the "moral necessity" of property ownership is where we do cross that line to excessive socialism

I stand by my original assessment. We either trust the common person with property ownership (and deal with the consequences of the nitwits and criminals), or we assume the worst and deny all rights to all people. Guns, parachutes, cars, land, whatever. And once you decide to control property, the next step is speech, intentions, and thought.

aren't we already too far down that road?

edit: I must acknowledge that you stated your opinion is 'society would be better off without them'. That is much different than advocating that government take them away. People here seem to equate personal opinion with positions of government control - it happens when you get a lot of lefties in one room. I won't equate that - it's not fair to you.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Well, what I really mean is that simply advocating gun ownership doesn't morally address the issue of the necessity to own one, as in, for self defence.

Why should it?

Twin bore for rabbits on the farm? Fine.
Remington .870 magnum? Sure why not?

Air rifle for vermin control? Fine.
M16A2 with a nice scope?Very Fine.

The problem will always be their misuse.
From kids shooting old men playing bowls, to the multi-million dollar arms trade, to gangsta rapper type dickheads, to your next door neighbour who unfortunately went a bit mental and murdered 16 children at the local primary school.

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I COULD NOT AGREE MORE.

Society is better off without any inflence on them one way or another. Trying to legislate them is part of the problem itself.

[vortexring 0]

Yeah, I do see your points mate, but I'm of the belief that we can no longer trust the common person with lethal weapons. This in itself proliferates their availabilty, not just to the dickheads mentioned, but their availabilty to cause harm and death.

Perhaps some elements of ownership really are best controlled. Nobody takes a rig then wipes out primary school children, do they. Nobody commits genocide in their cars.

So whilst I'm aware of your fear of a 1984 George Orwell society - the objective look and understanding of the bigger picture doesn't quite take you down this road. Certainly not in regard to gun control. We need to move on.
Evolve.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[rehmwa 2]

I'm a pretty smart guy too, but I'm not arrogant enough to think I can decide for everyone else what they can and cannot own. That's not evolving, it's devolving and it's heavy denial.

We're evolved when lethal items are readily available and everyone chooses to not use them that way. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

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Perhaps some elements of ownership really are best controlled

However, much respect for you to admit this position.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[vortexring 0]

Hiya Randy - hope your well mate.

"M16A2 with a nice scope?Very Fine.



I cannot ever imagine an international society without weapons - it goes against human nature.

At the moment.

It's our nature that needs to change. Also in response to rehmwa's earlier edit, I'm not for a Government taking them away from citizens, more an understanding that we're really better off without them.

I know you'd be upset with this Randy, especially regarding all the time and effort you've spent on your AR -15
Unlucky mate - now gimme it! It's going in the crusher

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

>We're evolved when lethal items are readily available and everyone chooses to not use them that way. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.<

I'm with you on this one.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[christelsabine 1]

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[
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Which means what?
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Do you think banning air guns is a good idea or a dumb idea?

Where? In Scotland or in the US?

In the US, I'd think it's a bad idea. Perhaps it would mean all those self declared, self defending sheriffs would obtain much more deadly weapons than they already possess, no matter from which sources. Let 'em play with air guns. That's OK and perhaps just eliminating an eye from time to time, not a life.

Air guns, free for all US citizens!

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[bch7773 0]

are they trying to make UK kids sit inside and play video games all day?

banning air guns is stupid. whats next, banning darts because they are sharp and pointy?

MB 3528, RB 1182

[justinb138 0]

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are they trying to make UK kids sit inside and play video games all day?

banning air guns is stupid. whats next, banning darts because they are sharp and pointy?

Hell, why not knives?

Fine point pens?

Save the Children!

[warpedskydiver 0]

I know you'd be upset with this Randy, especially regarding all the time and effort you've spent on your AR -15
Unlucky mate - now gimme it! It's going in the crusher

[warpedskydiver 0]

BTW I hope all is well with you and the Mrs.


I hope your having a nice Christmas season and a kick ass new year when it gets here!

[JohnRich 4]

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I feel the pro guns people refuse to see the bigger and long term picture of society being better off without them (guns).

The anti-gun people refuse to understand that banning guns is impossible, and that no matter what measures they institute, criminals will always get them anway. Thus, the only proper course of action is to ensure that the law-abiding have guns, in order to defend themselves from the criminals. Because a world full of defenseless citizens which are easy prey for criminals, is not "being better off". It's not evolving to a higher order, it's devolving to "survival of the fittest", where mankind started out.

Pro-gun people are practical realists.
Anti-gun people are pie-in-the-sky believers in fairy tales.

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What can you do to better it?
Continue to be narrow minded?

It's cute how you call people that disagree with your view "narrow minded". Is that understanding of other's positions you're idea of being open minded?