Soldiers speak up

[billvon 3,132]

In 1969, 1300 US troops signed an open letter to a US newspaper opposing the war in Vietnam. As of today, almost 1000 US troops have signed this petition:

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As a patriotic American proud to serve the nation in uniform, I respectfully urge my political leaders in Congress to support the prompt withdrawal of all American military forces and bases from Iraq . Staying in Iraq will not work and is not worth the price. It is time for U.S. troops to come home.
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A few soldiers went into detail:

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Sgt Gary--21 years old. US Army. Deployed with 20th Infantry Regiment, near Mosul, Iraq:

I joined up in 2001, still a junior in high school. I felt very patriotic at the end of my US History class. My idea of the Army was that you signed up, they gave you a rifle and you ran off into battle like in some 1950s war movie. The whole idea of boot camp never really entered my head.

I supported the war in the beginning. I bought everything Bush said about how Saddam had WMDs, how he was working with Al Qaeda, how he was a threat to America. Of course, this all turned out to be false.

This is my second tour, and as of a few days ago it's half-over. Before I deployed with my unit for the second time I already had feelings of not wanting to go. When in late September a buddy in my platoon died from a bullet in the head, I really took a long hard look at this war, this Administration, and the reasons why.

After months of research on the Internet, I came to the conclusion that this war was based on lies and deception. I started to break free of all the propaganda that the Bush Administration and the Army puts out on a daily basis.

So far in three years we have succeeded in toppling a dictator and replacing him with puppets. Outlawing the old government and its standing army and replacing them with an unreliable and poorly trained crew of paycheck collectors. The well is so poisoned by what we have done here that nothing can fix it.
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Lt. Smith--24 years old, 1st Lieutenant, US Army. Deployed near Baghdad:

I cannot, from Iraq, attend an antiwar protest. Nor could I attend one in the States and represent myself as a soldier. What I can do is send a protest communication to my Congressional delegate outlining grievances I feel I have suffered. Appeal for Redress gives me that outlet.

I am encouraged by the November elections, but still wary. We rushed into the war on false assumptions, and now we might rush out just as falsely. What troops need now is a light at the end of the tunnel, not just for this deployment but for all deployments. Bringing everyone out this summer is too fast to be supported by our Army's infrastructure. We would hemorrhage lives if we do so. But so would we if we stay the course.

I am encouraged by politicians who call for a withdrawal by the conclusion of President Bush's term in office. That seems a realistic timetable for me.
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Mark Mackoviak--24 years old. US Army. Recently returned from Iraq. Stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina:

I joined the Army on September 23, 2001. I had been out of school for a year when September 11 came around, and I was supportive of our action in Afghanistan. I wound up there a year later, and it was pretty eye-opening to see how people live.

I was also in Iraq for about a year, deployed near the International Airport, west of Baghdad. I was never that supportive of the invasion. I thought the media coverage of it was horrendous, really disgusting.

Just about everything I saw in Iraq reinforced my views that it was wrong. The point that really hit me was when the Asmara Mosque got blown up. I said, Wow, this is really a civil war.

I really enjoy being in the Army, enjoy the experience. I just happen to not support this war. I'm very open about that. My buddies either disagree with me or just pay no attention. But I get absolutely no hostility. None.
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Rebecca--26 years old. 101st Airborne, US Army. Just returned from Iraq. Stationed at Fort Hood, Texas:

I joined in 2004. I was trying to go into the human rights field, but it was very competitive. I was in need of health insurance, and the Army seemed feasible. Now it looks like I will be stop-lossed until 2010.

I had strong feelings about the war, against it, but I'm the type of person that wants to fully understand both sides of the argument.

My experience in Iraq confirmed my views, but it also gave me a more multifaceted view of things. I did see some of the good things being done, but it seemed like a Band-Aid on a gushing wound. Mostly I saw the frivolity of the missions, the lack of direction, the absurdity of the mission. You go out in your Humvee, you drive around, and you wait to be blown up and get killed by an IED.

About 40 percent of my unit were stop-lossed. Their first mission was to take down Saddam and his regime, and they seemed to understand that and agree with the mission to take down a ruthless dictator. Now they can't seem to understand why they are there, caught in the cross hairs of a civil war.

I think it is safe to say that the majority of soldiers are wondering what this grand scheme is that we keep hearing about from those above us but that is never translating down to the ground level.

Some politicians are starting to see that not only a majority of Americans oppose to this war. Now they see this very powerful statement of soldiers who have already been on the front line and who are still in uniform and are also opposed. None of them have been where we have been, none of them have seen what we have seen. It's time they do.

[Gene03 0]

I do agree that we shouldn't be there.
But these are soldiers, what did they think was going to happen? Serving milk and cookies?

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[Nightingale 0]

Well, from what they wrote, it seems like they don't have an issue with going to war in general; they just have an issue with this war, the reasons for it, and the way it's been handled.

[rushmc 23]

Once again someone like you finds the .00000000001% of the population and use it to make a point.

Something you learned from the drive by media.

good job

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[shropshire 0]

<< .00000000001% >> - something not quite right with your maths... but hey, lets not start letting the facts get in the way

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rushmc 23]

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<< .00000000001% >> - something not quite right with your maths... but hey, lets not start letting the facts get in the way

You got that right!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rhys 0]

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<< .00000000001% >> - something not quite right with your maths... but hey, lets not start letting the facts get in the way

well said

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There maybe no I in team but there is a YOU in C**T

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[shropshire 0]

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[warpedskydiver 0]

I would bet a dollar I could find a troop somewhere willing to say that Al Franken started this war with his flying saucer.

I know you will find troops that have vastly differing opinions on this or any other topic.

Maybe you just preferred these statements.

[Gawain 0]

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Rebecca--26 years old. 101st Airborne, US Army. Just returned from Iraq. Stationed at Fort Hood, Texas:

I'm going to call bullsh*t already. The 101st Airborne is based out of Fort Campbell, Kentucky. The 4th Infantry Division is based at Fort Hood, Texas.

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About 40 percent of my unit were stop-lossed.

There is no unit anywhere, where nearly half of the personnel need to be stop-lossed. No MOS is so hurting that they cannot re-fit during dwell time to allow those that are to ETS to leave.

This "petition" is very convenient Bill, signatories who do not have the fortitude to use their full name, unit designation or location.

I smell a rat...and if any of these guys were by some chance real soldiers, I hope they are ashamed of themselves.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[BIGUN 1,506]

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Rebecca--26 years old. 101st Airborne, US Army. Just returned from Iraq. Stationed at Fort Hood, Texas:

I read it as three snippets. She could have been with the 101st while in Irag, rotated stateside, could have been re-assigned to 1st Cav and is [now] stationed at Ft. Hood.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Gawain 0]

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Rebecca--26 years old. 101st Airborne, US Army. Just returned from Iraq. Stationed at Fort Hood, Texas:

I read it as three snippets. She could have been with the 101st while in Irag, rotated stateside, could also have been re-assigned to 1st Cav and is [now] stationed at Ft. Hood.

That makes little sense. One does not proclaim to be a part of a unit they are no longer assigned to.

The 101st literally just completed its re-deployment home. Some of the men in my unit haven't received their orders yet, one who did won't be going anywhere until May next year at the earliest. 4th ID also just completed their redeployment. I don't know the deployment status of 1st Cav, but as they are attached to III Corps, I think they may be in Iraq right now.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[downwardspiral 0]

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I joined the Army on September 23, 2001.

Since when do recruiters work on Sundays? I call BS.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[shropshire 0]

HI Ya,

Could you please explain Stop-Loss to me?

Ta,

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[mnealtx 0]

Basically, it temporarily prevents them from separating from service.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[shropshire 0]

Thanks.

Like stopping their contract coming to an end?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[mnealtx 0]

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Thanks.

Like stopping their contract coming to an end?

Basically - prevents them from separating within 90 days pre/post deployment, as I recall. I'm sure one of the guys that are active duty could clarify, if I'm incorrect.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kbordson 8]

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Thanks.

Like stopping their contract coming to an end?

Yes.

[shropshire 0]

Cheers.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jcd11235 0]

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HI Ya,

Could you please explain Stop-Loss to me?

Ta,

When I signed my first contract with the army, I signed up for three years of active duty, plus five years of inactive reserves. Typically, once the active duty commitment is fulfilled, the soldier is through. However, the gov't has the option of calling these soldiers back to active duty at anytime during the remainder of their eight year contract.

Additionally, my contract had fine print which said something to the effect of: if the soldier is scheduled to end his/her active duty during time of war, the gov't has the option of retaining said soldier until six months after the war is over. (I don't remember how war was defined, or what the exact terminology was.)

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rickjump1 0]

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Well, from what they wrote, it seems like they don't have an issue with going to war in general; they just have an issue with this war, the reasons for it, and the way it's been handled.

A soldier cannot choose which war he/she will fight. Of course a soldier can whine like a lieutenant colonel landing with his gear up.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[shropshire 0]

My service (RAF) was 12 years straight (no Reserve status) but shorter full time contracts had a Reserve commitment at that time (not sure these days).

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,132]

> I would bet a dollar I could find a troop somewhere willing to say that
>Al Franken started this war with his flying saucer.

Yeah, I figured "support the troops" would almost instantly turn to "these guys are idiots" as soon as they started disagreeing with the pro-war faction.

If I were to take a lesson from the GOP, I would ask you why you hate our troops so much - but since that's been done to death, I'll just leave you with the US troops who openly disagree with you.

[BIGUN 1,506]

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That makes little sense. One does not proclaim to be a part of a unit they are no longer assigned to.

My point was that I read it as three snippets and not necessarily as a linear sequence of events. The problem here is what Rebecca said to the reporter "may" have been days/months after she signed the petition (and that's giving the media credit for having done anything more than web-surf to substantiate the information).

Media: What unit were you stationed with in Iraq?
Rebecca: 101st Airborne
Where are you stationed now? Ft. Hood, Texas

Therefore, the report comes out, "Rebecca--26 years old. 101st Airborne, US Army. Just returned from Iraq. Stationed at Fort Hood, Texas" And, you'll notice "just returned" isn't defined. I know some folks who "just returned" last January.

There could be a myriad of reasons why she's no longer with the 101st and now with some unit at Ft. Hood. Injury, compassion leave, pregnancy, who knows...

Rather than just keeping this circular, I think we can agree that 1) whether we agree, disagree or even understand - some members of the military signed a petition, 2) The media apparently didn't investigate well and we both notice they picked "the most persuasive and logical of responders" and seemed to have left out the numbnuts, and 3) If you're not willing to stand on a roof top and shout your full name and opinion; then you need to lift your skirt to see if you have the balls to say it or are just a pussy - in which case one should keep their fucking mouth shut.

Edit: Is pussy a verb or noun in this case?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[downwardspiral 0]

lol bill....obviously that was your intent. What I find curious is no mention of source. Please provide that as I am very skeptical of anything I read on the internet.

There will ALWAYS be soldiers, airmen, marines, or sailors who disagree with the decisions of the "higher ups" so these letters are not surprising. .

www.FourWheelerHB.com