Christmas vs. Holiday

[NCclimber 0]

Sounds just like a Christmas Tree.

Is there a "solstice" manger scene in your home, too?

[jakee 1,596]

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Sounds just like a Christmas Tree.

Yet strangely none of it relates to christianity in any way.

Ever try looking at an issue with your eyes open?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[idrankwhat 0]

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>and a Santa (celebrating mass merchandizing)

I suspect you have a "Coca-Cola Santa" - Coke portrayed him as a jolly, overweight, bearded, red-suit-wearing fellow, and pushed that image everywhere. Before that he was often portrayed as a wizened old elf (i.e. "Twas the Night before Christmas") or a tall, thin man wearing religious robes (the dutch legend of Sinterklaas.)

Maybe so, but we all know that this season is specifically for celebrating the birth of a long haired, clean shaven, pasty faced white guy.

[NCclimber 0]

Tell me, jakee... did your family celebrate Christmas, when you were growing up?

How so?

I wonder... because you seem to display a fair amount of hostility against long standing Christian traditions.

[unformed 0]

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Tell me, jakee... did your family celebrate Christmas, when you were growing up?

How so?

I wonder... because you seem to display a fair amount of hostility against long standing Christian traditions.

You know, being somebody who's not Christian (me) and who's parents aren't Christian (they're Hindu) we still celebrated Christmas growing up. We had Christmas trees, we decorated our house with lights and what not, (although, now, we didn't have a manger scene)...and you know something, it's ok.

Because to us, it wasn't about the religious aspect of it. It was about having our family together, even if we didn't have enough money to buy each other expensive gifts. It was good times during a holiday season.

Why are you so against non-Christians celebrating Christmas? Shouldn't you be more against Christians who celebrate Christmas by racking up credit-card debt, which has absolutely nothing to do with religious values?

This ad space for sale.

[kallend 2,150]

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Sounds just like a Christmas Tree.

Is there a "solstice" manger scene in your home, too?

Correction: a "Christmas tree" is a recent rip-off of the Yule tradition in Northern Europe, where winter festivities were once considered to be a Feast of the Dead, complete with ceremonies full of spirits, devils, and the haunting presence of the Norse god, Odin, and his night riders. One particularly durable Solstice festival was "Jol" (also known as "Jule" and pronounced "Yule"), a feast celebrated throughout Northern Europe and particularly in Scandinavia to honor Jolnir, another name for Odin. Since Odin was the god of intoxicating drink and ecstasy, as well as the god of death, Yule customs varied greatly in emphasis from region to region. Odin's sacrificial beer became the specially blessed Christmas ale mentioned in medieval lore, and fresh food and drink were left on tables after feasts to feed the roaming Yuletide ghosts.

The origins of the Yule Log can be traced back to the Midwinter festivals in which the Norsemen indulged...nights filled with feasting, "drinking Yule" and watching the fire leap around the log burning in the home hearth. The ceremonies and beliefs associated with the Yule Log's sacred origins are closely linked to representations of health, fertility and productivity.



Since fertility was a component of Yule (and Saturnalia), I'm sure any baby-related stuff is appropriate, but as it happens we do not have a manger.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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Tell me, jakee... did your family celebrate Christmas, when you were growing up?

How so?

I wonder... because you seem to display a fair amount of hostility against long standing Christian traditions.

That statement would make sense IF and ONLY IF the "Christian Traditions" were original. It doesn't, because they aren't.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

I think that you're missing Jakee's point somewhat.... All of those 'Chistmas' traditions have been hijaked and are not original Christian symbols. - even the date.




Whoops Sorry Prof' Deja Vu?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[AggieDave 6]

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Maybe so, but we all know that this season is specifically for celebrating the birth of a long haired, clean shaven, pasty faced white guy.

The drummer for FogHat?

I brought that up when I was a kid and was letting my hair get "too long" according to my quite religious mother.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SpeedRacer 1]

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>and a Santa (celebrating mass merchandizing)

I suspect you have a "Coca-Cola Santa" - Coke portrayed him as a jolly, overweight, bearded, red-suit-wearing fellow, and pushed that image everywhere. Before that he was often portrayed as a wizened old elf (i.e. "Twas the Night before Christmas") or a tall, thin man wearing religious robes (the dutch legend of Sinterklaas.)

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp

Coca Cola did not invent the idea of a fat, jolly, bearded, red-coated Santa.

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[shropshire 0]

Heard this other day and it made me smile....

A young lad was being taught about the navity and meaning if Christmas, at school. At the end of the lesson, the teachers asked if anyone had any questions. The little lad wanted to know why anyone would call their baby after a swear word!!

It seems that the only time this little lad had heard the word Jesus, it was in the wrong context..... All very sad really

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[NCclimber 0]

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Tell me, jakee... did your family celebrate Christmas, when you were growing up?
How so?
I wonder... because you seem to display a fair amount of hostility against long standing Christian traditions.

That statement would make sense IF and ONLY IF the "Christian Traditions" were original. It doesn't, because they aren't.

Whether or not longstanding Christian/Christmas traditions have origins elsewhere has no bearing on whether or not they can be claimed as Christian/Christmas traditions.

On the idiocy scale, this ranks up there with those people who say "only Native Americans have the right to call themselves Americans". DURRR.

[NCclimber 0]

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Why are you so against non-Christians celebrating Christmas?

I'm not. What you wrote about your family's annual celebration gets two thumbs up in my book. Sounds like a "when in Rome... make lemonade" situation.

My issue is with efforts to demean Christmas.

Cheers.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Tell me, jakee... did your family celebrate Christmas, when you were growing up?
How so?
I wonder... because you seem to display a fair amount of hostility against long standing Christian traditions.

That statement would make sense IF and ONLY IF the "Christian Traditions" were original. It doesn't, because they aren't.

Whether or not longstanding Christian/Christmas traditoons have origins elsewhere has no bearing on whether or not they can be claimed as Christian/Christmas traditions.

On the idiocy scale, this ranks up there with those people who say "only native Americans have the right to call themselves Americans". DURRR.

Good post! At one time, the decorated tree was a symbol of a pagan religion. Then at a later time, the decorated tree also became a symbol of a Christian holiday. WTF-ever. No-one ever asked the tree's opinion, did they?!

It may not have been a "Christmas tree" 2000 years ago, but it fucking is now. Times change. Get used to it already.

Not that non-Christians aren't free to decorate a tree & call it a Solstice tree, and wait for Solsta Claus to come down the chimney.

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[billvon 3,120]

>Coca Cola did not invent the idea of a fat, jolly, bearded,
>red-coated Santa.

Correct. But up until that time there were several versions of Santa, including Kris Kringle, Sinterklaas, St. Nicholas etc. Tall bishops, short elves, and evil-looking trolls were all competing for that particular image. Coke "standardized" the american Santa image, and used their marketing power to spread it.

[NCclimber 0]

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>and a Santa (celebrating mass merchandizing)

I suspect you have a "Coca-Cola Santa" - Coke portrayed him as a jolly, overweight, bearded, red-suit-wearing fellow, and pushed that image everywhere. Before that he was often portrayed as a wizened old elf (i.e. "Twas the Night before Christmas") or a tall, thin man wearing religious robes (the dutch legend of Sinterklaas.)

It's like deja vu... all over again.

[champu 1]

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Whether or not longstanding Christian/Christmas traditoons have origins elsewhere has no bearing on whether or not they can be claimed as Christian/Christmas traditions.

On the idiocy scale, this ranks up there with those people who say "only native Americans have the right to call themselves Americans". DURRR.

That was a terrible post.

The first statement you make is false, you've insulted the parent poster in a childish way by suggesting his point of view be subjected to an "idiocy scale", you've created an analogy that very much misses the point, and you've used onomatopoeia that degrades the mentally retarded...

...but hey, Merry Christmas!

[SpeedRacer 1]

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>Coca Cola did not invent the idea of a fat, jolly, bearded,
>red-coated Santa.

Correct. But up until that time there were several versions of Santa, including Kris Kringle, Sinterklaas, St. Nicholas etc. Tall bishops, short elves, and evil-looking trolls were all competing for that particular image. Coke "standardized" the american Santa image, and used their marketing power to spread it.

According to the article I posted, that particular image of Santa had already been "standardized" & spread all over years before Coke began to use it. The other images had already been out-competed.

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[NCclimber 0]

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Whether or not longstanding Christian/Christmas traditoons have origins elsewhere has no bearing on whether or not they can be claimed as Christian/Christmas traditions.

On the idiocy scale, this ranks up there with those people who say "only native Americans have the right to call themselves Americans". DURRR.

That was a terrible post.

The first statement you make is false, you've insulted the parent poster in a childish way by suggesting his point of view be subjected to an "idiocy scale", you've created an analogy that very much misses the point, and you've used onomatopoeia that degrades the mentally retarded...

...but hey, Merry Christmas!

Perhaps you can provide me with a definition of "traditions" that includes a specific criteria regarding originating one's own tradition.

We have a lot of family traditons that we learned from others and adopted as our own. Their origins don't change the fact that they are our family traditions.

Perhaps you thought it was terrible because you just didn't understand it. DURRR

[SpeedRacer 1]

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DURRR [Tongue] ]

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[jakee 1,596]

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Tell me, jakee... did your family celebrate Christmas, when you were growing up?

How so?

I wonder... because you seem to display a fair amount of hostility against long standing Christian traditions.

You kidding me? I love Christmas!! (Except when the shops try and make it start in october. Grrrrrr)

In my house we had a fir tree (real, not plastic), tinsel, flashing lights, presents, massive amounts of food, a walk in the country if the weather was good and maybe monopoly if we had enough time in the evening. Oh yeah, and none of it was remotely christian in nature.

As Shrop said, you miss my point. I don't care if who does or doesn't celebrate christmas, I don't care who attatches religious significance to it, but I don't have any tolerance for those who demand every one submits to their interpretation of a holiday that is older than their entire religion.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Amazon 7]

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but I don't have any tolerance for those who demand every one submits to their interpretation of a holiday that is older than their entire religion.

But this is PURITAN LAND...you must worship their way or you are going straight to hell mister.

[NCclimber 0]

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I don't have any tolerance for those who demand every one submits to their interpretation of a holiday that is older than their entire religion.

I see. You're of the opinion that even though the December Holiday season, which is overwhelming recognized as being all about Christmas (at least in the US and much of the Western World).... even though it originated with other December celebrations... ones that are now little noticed fringe events... that somehow these mostly forgotten forerunners to Christmas deserve the same legitimacy as Christmas.

Is that about it?

Knock yourself out, sport.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Lots of lights. (disco) I suppose that's Hannuka. And a star, that's for astronomy(porn star). And glass balls (think Ben Wa)(celebrating materials engineering), and a Santa (celebrating mass merchandizing)(flasher in a red suit), and reindeer(horny beast) (celebrating Gene Autry), candy canes (candy for chicks)(celebrating dentists), snowmen (disco dust)and faux snowflakes (for the meteorologists), a toy nutcracker (testicle device)(Tchaikowski), a couple of toy rockinghorses (sex apparatus)(not sure what they symbolize)...

[billvon 3,120]

>that somehow these mostly forgotten forerunners to Christmas deserve
>the same legitimacy as Christmas.

Personally, I think christmas/christmas trees/the easter bunny/manger scenes/santa claus should have as much legitimacy to YOU as YOU want. If Kallend wants a solstice tree, then that's just as legitimate to him as your christmas tree is to you. And in the end that's what matters.