kallend 2,182 #101 December 12, 2006 QuoteYou sure are down on free speech in the USQuote It was a figure of speech, in no way did I ever imply he has no right to say that, I just said that the comments of people playing armchair quaterback for an armed conflict hold little weight in my mind. ? Since your comments were directed at me, I suggest you look up my record of comments on the Iraq war. It is easy to find in the DZ.COM archives, and shows that, unlike Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Coulter and their supporters on the right, I have been correct at every turn on the the way things would turn out, starting before the invasion itself. If you can show that your analysis has been better than mine, please do so.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #102 December 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou sure are down on free speech in the USQuote It was a figure of speech, in no way did I ever imply he has no right to say that, I just said that the comments of people playing armchair quaterback for an armed conflict hold little weight in my mind. ? Since your comments were directed at me, I suggest you look up my record of comments on the Iraq war. It is easy to find in the DZ.COM archives, and shows that, unlike Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Coulter and their supporters on the right, I have been correct at every turn on the the way things would turn out, starting before the invasion itself. Good for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #103 December 12, 2006 If you can show that your analysis has been better than mine, please do so.Quote Rarely if ever do you see me commenting on the political side of this, things such as the WMD's, whether or not Iraq was a terrorist state, and the like I tend to steer clear of. I prefer to focus my efforts in my debates to things happening on the ground down-range, especially because it directly pertains to me(I comment hear and there about the politics, but not a lot). And as for you being right on all your arguments, good on ya, it's good to know that someone whose biggest contribution to the current global situation is a few posts on a SKYDIVING WEBSITE has been right in all his predictions. So where did I say my analysis was better than yours? The post you just quoted me on? All I was saying was that your arguments IMO hold little weight, whether they be right or wrong because you take no action(from what I have seen), whether that action be joining the military, running for congress, or travelling to Washington to meet with good ol' GW and say "I told ya so." And the post a page or so back where I originally mentioned you, actually I brought you into this for a reason completely unrelated to this topic. I have asked you countless times to not draw assumptions about me considering you have never met me, yet you continue to do so. So I decided to take an opportunity to draw you into this by making an assumption of my own which was completely false. Professor, I know you do not come on here and trash talk soldiers, or accuse us of being murderers, but I'm sure it kind of pisses you off when someone says you do, doesn't it. You know absolutely nothing about me outside of what I say on here, this forum is a very small part of my life, so how about you stop talking like you know me. I watch you do this to everyone in these forums, you also try and take shots at them hidden in your arguments, you don't hide them very well. One would think that between a professor and a soldier the soldier would be the one constantly talking to people in a negative manner letting his personal feeling get out and trash talking, yet at mentioned earlier around here I tend to be very respectful when talking to people. Yes I get very passionate about some of my arguments, but I keep them civilized, and I don't sit here and try to put myself on high. So once again I applaud your analysis of the current situation, but at least I am in some way taking action to make things better. You may not be cut out for the military but there are many other things you can do to contribute to the situation apart from talking down to people on an internet forum. People as educated as yourself could do so much to help this situation but you choose not to.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #104 December 12, 2006 >but at least I am in some way taking action to make things better. That's great! We all do what we can. Unfortunately, our leaders are currently using the military to make things worse. And that has to change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #105 December 12, 2006 QuoteIntegrity would be being respectful to any servicemember but it seems that it is conditional to their respective political views. Most likely you don't post my PM's because they do not show anything vicious, and out of context, and have always included comments such as what I think your service has been honorable. So let me get this straight.. after calling me unpatriotic.. a traitor that belongs in GITMO... I am supposed to show you respect and give you a pass on anything you say to someone who does not agree with the war( which is where all this started) because you SUPPOSEDLY are serving this country????? My responses have been based on that which you have dished out to people here who do not agree with your views over and over which seem to be based on South American far right wing political views. They certainly do align nicely with what this administration is trying to take us to....a military junta police state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #106 December 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteNot to mention that you would also have started WWIII. Well, there IS a parallel. Pearl Harbor was what we now call a "pre-emptive strike." If I recall correctly, that one didn't turn out so well for them in the end. It was ultimately ended by attacking the civilian population. Interesting. Never looked at it with the USA wearing the other shoe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #107 December 12, 2006 QuoteAnd before you go and try and pull a tought guy routine look a little closer at what I was calling out, like I said if you want us out of Iraq, voice your opinion, but if someone is going to knock a soldier saying they aren't tough enough to handle the war, they should grab their sack and say it to a soldiers face, they are still more than welcome to voice their opinion I just think people who say such things should experience first hand how well soldiers can really fight. I just had to go back to this. There are SEVERAL right wing posters on here who I would LOVE to meet in person.... who I would say the same thing to them in person face to face. I would love to see if they have the cajones to say the same things to me in person that they have said from behind their keyboards. My boogie schedule is fairly well known. Hell I even went to one of their home DZ's all the way across the country a couple times for events being held there. I made no secret I was going there.... but I guess they really dont jump all that often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #108 December 12, 2006 Both of you cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #109 December 12, 2006 Yes Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #110 December 12, 2006 QuoteThere are SEVERAL right wing posters on here who I would LOVE to meet in person.... She met me in person once. I even let her in my car. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #111 December 12, 2006 QuoteIf you can show that your analysis has been better than mine, please do so.Quote Rarely if ever do you see me commenting on the political side of this, things such as the WMD's, whether or not Iraq was a terrorist state, and the like I tend to steer clear of. I prefer to focus my efforts in my debates to things happening on the ground down-range, especially because it directly pertains to me(I comment hear and there about the politics, but not a lot). And as for you being right on all your arguments, good on ya, it's good to know that someone whose biggest contribution to the current global situation is a few posts on a SKYDIVING WEBSITE has been right in all his predictions.. It's not at all difficult being better at predicting what's likely to happen than Bush. In fact, if you just add "NOT" to everything he says, you'd be right most of the time. Anyone can do it . You, Gravitymaster, rushmc and mnealtx could all do it if you took the blinders off for just a few minutes every day.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #112 December 12, 2006 Yeah and you turned out to be a really decent guy... a cute one too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #113 December 12, 2006 QuoteYeah and you turned out to be a really decent guy... a cute one too. Dammit! She remembers!! So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #114 December 12, 2006 That's great! We all do what we can. Unfortunately, our leaders are currently using the military to make things worse. And that has to change. Quote I don't think it's so much the fact that the military IS being used as much as it is the WAY that the military is being used. With a little change in direction I think the military could be much more effective in helping the issues. I apologzie if I took your post the wrong way Bill, I wasn't sure if you were talking about using the military in any fashion or just the way it is currently being used.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #115 December 12, 2006 >With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. >I wasn't sure if you were talking about using the military in any >fashion or just the way it is currently being used. I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #116 December 13, 2006 I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Looking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Two of my teammates just got back today after spending a week over there looking at where we will be operating, answering all the question we had so that we can start planning and packing. It's amazing how much the way we operate has changed since my first two trips, we're going to be doing some great things over there in the next year. The only thing that worries me is we're gonna be out in "indian country" this is where the BIG IED's happen, not the little mortar round in a garbage bag on the side of the road like you see in Baghdad, out there they have sufficient time to plant big ones, such as the double stacked anti tank mine buried in the road in Kirkuk last week, you could hide a vehicle in a crater that sizeHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #117 December 13, 2006 >and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there . . . If the very best thing we could do for the Iraqis would be to get out quickly and let the Iraqi army take over, would that still be a mistake just because someone could claim we were "cutting and running?" I worry that we're making decisions based on our egos rather what's best for Iraq and our troops. I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteLooking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Could someone please tell me what "it" is? What exactly is the mission in Iraq? As far as the "cowards way out," it's called not chasing lost costs. You don't decide your future actions with intent to justify your previous actions. Act for the future, not the past. When was the last time we successfully "built a nation" that was not our own?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #119 December 13, 2006 I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote I think we are seeing eye to eye for the most part on the issue, we need to do something so long as it is not the same course we have been following. If at this very moment we could pull out and the IA would handle the situation by themselves then let's roll(as long as I get my 8 months of tax free status fist) and finish up in Afghanistan while we're on our way home, I don't think that just because we left we are cutting and running. I do however oppose those who say, "let's get out of there and let the Iraqis deal with the rest of the problems, its their country anyways". Like I said, we started it, let's finish it, whether the best course of action to a successful ending is styaing and fighting or leaving and handling it diplomatically. The Iraqi Army is getting better every day, I've had the pleasure of working alongside them and have seen first hand a drastic improvement, they are some good guys and will soon be fully capable on their own. Yes it will cost more of our own along the way, no course of action is without its consequences, the insurgents get lucky here and there and get one of us(remember, even a broken watch is right twice a day). But they are losing.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #120 December 13, 2006 Quote>With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. . Apparently Bush is already distancing himself from the Iraq Study Group, and the next major White House briefing on Iraq is to be led by Rumsfeld and attended by the cronies, so I wouldn't get too optimistic just yet.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #121 December 13, 2006 QuoteBut they are losing. Everybody is losing in this war.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 13, 2006 Everybody is losing in this war.Quote You are right in some respect, everyone is losing something in this war, for us in the US we are losing countless great men and women. As for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #123 December 13, 2006 QuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #124 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003. See, for example, this thread. Victory is receding faster than we can pursue it. We are NOT winning.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #125 December 13, 2006 Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Quote I think he's out job hunting at this moment for a reason. I sort of meant it as a figure of speech, but you're right there are people out there who said otherwise.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. 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warpedskydiver 0 #102 December 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou sure are down on free speech in the USQuote It was a figure of speech, in no way did I ever imply he has no right to say that, I just said that the comments of people playing armchair quaterback for an armed conflict hold little weight in my mind. ? Since your comments were directed at me, I suggest you look up my record of comments on the Iraq war. It is easy to find in the DZ.COM archives, and shows that, unlike Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Coulter and their supporters on the right, I have been correct at every turn on the the way things would turn out, starting before the invasion itself. Good for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #103 December 12, 2006 If you can show that your analysis has been better than mine, please do so.Quote Rarely if ever do you see me commenting on the political side of this, things such as the WMD's, whether or not Iraq was a terrorist state, and the like I tend to steer clear of. I prefer to focus my efforts in my debates to things happening on the ground down-range, especially because it directly pertains to me(I comment hear and there about the politics, but not a lot). And as for you being right on all your arguments, good on ya, it's good to know that someone whose biggest contribution to the current global situation is a few posts on a SKYDIVING WEBSITE has been right in all his predictions. So where did I say my analysis was better than yours? The post you just quoted me on? All I was saying was that your arguments IMO hold little weight, whether they be right or wrong because you take no action(from what I have seen), whether that action be joining the military, running for congress, or travelling to Washington to meet with good ol' GW and say "I told ya so." And the post a page or so back where I originally mentioned you, actually I brought you into this for a reason completely unrelated to this topic. I have asked you countless times to not draw assumptions about me considering you have never met me, yet you continue to do so. So I decided to take an opportunity to draw you into this by making an assumption of my own which was completely false. Professor, I know you do not come on here and trash talk soldiers, or accuse us of being murderers, but I'm sure it kind of pisses you off when someone says you do, doesn't it. You know absolutely nothing about me outside of what I say on here, this forum is a very small part of my life, so how about you stop talking like you know me. I watch you do this to everyone in these forums, you also try and take shots at them hidden in your arguments, you don't hide them very well. One would think that between a professor and a soldier the soldier would be the one constantly talking to people in a negative manner letting his personal feeling get out and trash talking, yet at mentioned earlier around here I tend to be very respectful when talking to people. Yes I get very passionate about some of my arguments, but I keep them civilized, and I don't sit here and try to put myself on high. So once again I applaud your analysis of the current situation, but at least I am in some way taking action to make things better. You may not be cut out for the military but there are many other things you can do to contribute to the situation apart from talking down to people on an internet forum. People as educated as yourself could do so much to help this situation but you choose not to.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #104 December 12, 2006 >but at least I am in some way taking action to make things better. That's great! We all do what we can. Unfortunately, our leaders are currently using the military to make things worse. And that has to change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #105 December 12, 2006 QuoteIntegrity would be being respectful to any servicemember but it seems that it is conditional to their respective political views. Most likely you don't post my PM's because they do not show anything vicious, and out of context, and have always included comments such as what I think your service has been honorable. So let me get this straight.. after calling me unpatriotic.. a traitor that belongs in GITMO... I am supposed to show you respect and give you a pass on anything you say to someone who does not agree with the war( which is where all this started) because you SUPPOSEDLY are serving this country????? My responses have been based on that which you have dished out to people here who do not agree with your views over and over which seem to be based on South American far right wing political views. They certainly do align nicely with what this administration is trying to take us to....a military junta police state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #106 December 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteNot to mention that you would also have started WWIII. Well, there IS a parallel. Pearl Harbor was what we now call a "pre-emptive strike." If I recall correctly, that one didn't turn out so well for them in the end. It was ultimately ended by attacking the civilian population. Interesting. Never looked at it with the USA wearing the other shoe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #107 December 12, 2006 QuoteAnd before you go and try and pull a tought guy routine look a little closer at what I was calling out, like I said if you want us out of Iraq, voice your opinion, but if someone is going to knock a soldier saying they aren't tough enough to handle the war, they should grab their sack and say it to a soldiers face, they are still more than welcome to voice their opinion I just think people who say such things should experience first hand how well soldiers can really fight. I just had to go back to this. There are SEVERAL right wing posters on here who I would LOVE to meet in person.... who I would say the same thing to them in person face to face. I would love to see if they have the cajones to say the same things to me in person that they have said from behind their keyboards. My boogie schedule is fairly well known. Hell I even went to one of their home DZ's all the way across the country a couple times for events being held there. I made no secret I was going there.... but I guess they really dont jump all that often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #108 December 12, 2006 Both of you cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #109 December 12, 2006 Yes Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #110 December 12, 2006 QuoteThere are SEVERAL right wing posters on here who I would LOVE to meet in person.... She met me in person once. I even let her in my car. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #111 December 12, 2006 QuoteIf you can show that your analysis has been better than mine, please do so.Quote Rarely if ever do you see me commenting on the political side of this, things such as the WMD's, whether or not Iraq was a terrorist state, and the like I tend to steer clear of. I prefer to focus my efforts in my debates to things happening on the ground down-range, especially because it directly pertains to me(I comment hear and there about the politics, but not a lot). And as for you being right on all your arguments, good on ya, it's good to know that someone whose biggest contribution to the current global situation is a few posts on a SKYDIVING WEBSITE has been right in all his predictions.. It's not at all difficult being better at predicting what's likely to happen than Bush. In fact, if you just add "NOT" to everything he says, you'd be right most of the time. Anyone can do it . You, Gravitymaster, rushmc and mnealtx could all do it if you took the blinders off for just a few minutes every day.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #112 December 12, 2006 Yeah and you turned out to be a really decent guy... a cute one too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #113 December 12, 2006 QuoteYeah and you turned out to be a really decent guy... a cute one too. Dammit! She remembers!! So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #114 December 12, 2006 That's great! We all do what we can. Unfortunately, our leaders are currently using the military to make things worse. And that has to change. Quote I don't think it's so much the fact that the military IS being used as much as it is the WAY that the military is being used. With a little change in direction I think the military could be much more effective in helping the issues. I apologzie if I took your post the wrong way Bill, I wasn't sure if you were talking about using the military in any fashion or just the way it is currently being used.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #115 December 12, 2006 >With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. >I wasn't sure if you were talking about using the military in any >fashion or just the way it is currently being used. I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #116 December 13, 2006 I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Looking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Two of my teammates just got back today after spending a week over there looking at where we will be operating, answering all the question we had so that we can start planning and packing. It's amazing how much the way we operate has changed since my first two trips, we're going to be doing some great things over there in the next year. The only thing that worries me is we're gonna be out in "indian country" this is where the BIG IED's happen, not the little mortar round in a garbage bag on the side of the road like you see in Baghdad, out there they have sufficient time to plant big ones, such as the double stacked anti tank mine buried in the road in Kirkuk last week, you could hide a vehicle in a crater that sizeHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #117 December 13, 2006 >and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there . . . If the very best thing we could do for the Iraqis would be to get out quickly and let the Iraqi army take over, would that still be a mistake just because someone could claim we were "cutting and running?" I worry that we're making decisions based on our egos rather what's best for Iraq and our troops. I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteLooking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Could someone please tell me what "it" is? What exactly is the mission in Iraq? As far as the "cowards way out," it's called not chasing lost costs. You don't decide your future actions with intent to justify your previous actions. Act for the future, not the past. When was the last time we successfully "built a nation" that was not our own?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #119 December 13, 2006 I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote I think we are seeing eye to eye for the most part on the issue, we need to do something so long as it is not the same course we have been following. If at this very moment we could pull out and the IA would handle the situation by themselves then let's roll(as long as I get my 8 months of tax free status fist) and finish up in Afghanistan while we're on our way home, I don't think that just because we left we are cutting and running. I do however oppose those who say, "let's get out of there and let the Iraqis deal with the rest of the problems, its their country anyways". Like I said, we started it, let's finish it, whether the best course of action to a successful ending is styaing and fighting or leaving and handling it diplomatically. The Iraqi Army is getting better every day, I've had the pleasure of working alongside them and have seen first hand a drastic improvement, they are some good guys and will soon be fully capable on their own. Yes it will cost more of our own along the way, no course of action is without its consequences, the insurgents get lucky here and there and get one of us(remember, even a broken watch is right twice a day). But they are losing.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #120 December 13, 2006 Quote>With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. . Apparently Bush is already distancing himself from the Iraq Study Group, and the next major White House briefing on Iraq is to be led by Rumsfeld and attended by the cronies, so I wouldn't get too optimistic just yet.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #121 December 13, 2006 QuoteBut they are losing. Everybody is losing in this war.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 13, 2006 Everybody is losing in this war.Quote You are right in some respect, everyone is losing something in this war, for us in the US we are losing countless great men and women. As for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #123 December 13, 2006 QuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #124 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003. See, for example, this thread. Victory is receding faster than we can pursue it. We are NOT winning.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #125 December 13, 2006 Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Quote I think he's out job hunting at this moment for a reason. I sort of meant it as a figure of speech, but you're right there are people out there who said otherwise.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. 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GQ_jumper 4 #103 December 12, 2006 If you can show that your analysis has been better than mine, please do so.Quote Rarely if ever do you see me commenting on the political side of this, things such as the WMD's, whether or not Iraq was a terrorist state, and the like I tend to steer clear of. I prefer to focus my efforts in my debates to things happening on the ground down-range, especially because it directly pertains to me(I comment hear and there about the politics, but not a lot). And as for you being right on all your arguments, good on ya, it's good to know that someone whose biggest contribution to the current global situation is a few posts on a SKYDIVING WEBSITE has been right in all his predictions. So where did I say my analysis was better than yours? The post you just quoted me on? All I was saying was that your arguments IMO hold little weight, whether they be right or wrong because you take no action(from what I have seen), whether that action be joining the military, running for congress, or travelling to Washington to meet with good ol' GW and say "I told ya so." And the post a page or so back where I originally mentioned you, actually I brought you into this for a reason completely unrelated to this topic. I have asked you countless times to not draw assumptions about me considering you have never met me, yet you continue to do so. So I decided to take an opportunity to draw you into this by making an assumption of my own which was completely false. Professor, I know you do not come on here and trash talk soldiers, or accuse us of being murderers, but I'm sure it kind of pisses you off when someone says you do, doesn't it. You know absolutely nothing about me outside of what I say on here, this forum is a very small part of my life, so how about you stop talking like you know me. I watch you do this to everyone in these forums, you also try and take shots at them hidden in your arguments, you don't hide them very well. One would think that between a professor and a soldier the soldier would be the one constantly talking to people in a negative manner letting his personal feeling get out and trash talking, yet at mentioned earlier around here I tend to be very respectful when talking to people. Yes I get very passionate about some of my arguments, but I keep them civilized, and I don't sit here and try to put myself on high. So once again I applaud your analysis of the current situation, but at least I am in some way taking action to make things better. You may not be cut out for the military but there are many other things you can do to contribute to the situation apart from talking down to people on an internet forum. People as educated as yourself could do so much to help this situation but you choose not to.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #104 December 12, 2006 >but at least I am in some way taking action to make things better. That's great! We all do what we can. Unfortunately, our leaders are currently using the military to make things worse. And that has to change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #105 December 12, 2006 QuoteIntegrity would be being respectful to any servicemember but it seems that it is conditional to their respective political views. Most likely you don't post my PM's because they do not show anything vicious, and out of context, and have always included comments such as what I think your service has been honorable. So let me get this straight.. after calling me unpatriotic.. a traitor that belongs in GITMO... I am supposed to show you respect and give you a pass on anything you say to someone who does not agree with the war( which is where all this started) because you SUPPOSEDLY are serving this country????? My responses have been based on that which you have dished out to people here who do not agree with your views over and over which seem to be based on South American far right wing political views. They certainly do align nicely with what this administration is trying to take us to....a military junta police state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #106 December 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteNot to mention that you would also have started WWIII. Well, there IS a parallel. Pearl Harbor was what we now call a "pre-emptive strike." If I recall correctly, that one didn't turn out so well for them in the end. It was ultimately ended by attacking the civilian population. Interesting. Never looked at it with the USA wearing the other shoe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #107 December 12, 2006 QuoteAnd before you go and try and pull a tought guy routine look a little closer at what I was calling out, like I said if you want us out of Iraq, voice your opinion, but if someone is going to knock a soldier saying they aren't tough enough to handle the war, they should grab their sack and say it to a soldiers face, they are still more than welcome to voice their opinion I just think people who say such things should experience first hand how well soldiers can really fight. I just had to go back to this. There are SEVERAL right wing posters on here who I would LOVE to meet in person.... who I would say the same thing to them in person face to face. I would love to see if they have the cajones to say the same things to me in person that they have said from behind their keyboards. My boogie schedule is fairly well known. Hell I even went to one of their home DZ's all the way across the country a couple times for events being held there. I made no secret I was going there.... but I guess they really dont jump all that often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #108 December 12, 2006 Both of you cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #109 December 12, 2006 Yes Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #110 December 12, 2006 QuoteThere are SEVERAL right wing posters on here who I would LOVE to meet in person.... She met me in person once. I even let her in my car. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #111 December 12, 2006 QuoteIf you can show that your analysis has been better than mine, please do so.Quote Rarely if ever do you see me commenting on the political side of this, things such as the WMD's, whether or not Iraq was a terrorist state, and the like I tend to steer clear of. I prefer to focus my efforts in my debates to things happening on the ground down-range, especially because it directly pertains to me(I comment hear and there about the politics, but not a lot). And as for you being right on all your arguments, good on ya, it's good to know that someone whose biggest contribution to the current global situation is a few posts on a SKYDIVING WEBSITE has been right in all his predictions.. It's not at all difficult being better at predicting what's likely to happen than Bush. In fact, if you just add "NOT" to everything he says, you'd be right most of the time. Anyone can do it . You, Gravitymaster, rushmc and mnealtx could all do it if you took the blinders off for just a few minutes every day.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #112 December 12, 2006 Yeah and you turned out to be a really decent guy... a cute one too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #113 December 12, 2006 QuoteYeah and you turned out to be a really decent guy... a cute one too. Dammit! She remembers!! So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #114 December 12, 2006 That's great! We all do what we can. Unfortunately, our leaders are currently using the military to make things worse. And that has to change. Quote I don't think it's so much the fact that the military IS being used as much as it is the WAY that the military is being used. With a little change in direction I think the military could be much more effective in helping the issues. I apologzie if I took your post the wrong way Bill, I wasn't sure if you were talking about using the military in any fashion or just the way it is currently being used.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #115 December 12, 2006 >With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. >I wasn't sure if you were talking about using the military in any >fashion or just the way it is currently being used. I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #116 December 13, 2006 I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Looking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Two of my teammates just got back today after spending a week over there looking at where we will be operating, answering all the question we had so that we can start planning and packing. It's amazing how much the way we operate has changed since my first two trips, we're going to be doing some great things over there in the next year. The only thing that worries me is we're gonna be out in "indian country" this is where the BIG IED's happen, not the little mortar round in a garbage bag on the side of the road like you see in Baghdad, out there they have sufficient time to plant big ones, such as the double stacked anti tank mine buried in the road in Kirkuk last week, you could hide a vehicle in a crater that sizeHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #117 December 13, 2006 >and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there . . . If the very best thing we could do for the Iraqis would be to get out quickly and let the Iraqi army take over, would that still be a mistake just because someone could claim we were "cutting and running?" I worry that we're making decisions based on our egos rather what's best for Iraq and our troops. I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteLooking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Could someone please tell me what "it" is? What exactly is the mission in Iraq? As far as the "cowards way out," it's called not chasing lost costs. You don't decide your future actions with intent to justify your previous actions. Act for the future, not the past. When was the last time we successfully "built a nation" that was not our own?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #119 December 13, 2006 I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote I think we are seeing eye to eye for the most part on the issue, we need to do something so long as it is not the same course we have been following. If at this very moment we could pull out and the IA would handle the situation by themselves then let's roll(as long as I get my 8 months of tax free status fist) and finish up in Afghanistan while we're on our way home, I don't think that just because we left we are cutting and running. I do however oppose those who say, "let's get out of there and let the Iraqis deal with the rest of the problems, its their country anyways". Like I said, we started it, let's finish it, whether the best course of action to a successful ending is styaing and fighting or leaving and handling it diplomatically. The Iraqi Army is getting better every day, I've had the pleasure of working alongside them and have seen first hand a drastic improvement, they are some good guys and will soon be fully capable on their own. Yes it will cost more of our own along the way, no course of action is without its consequences, the insurgents get lucky here and there and get one of us(remember, even a broken watch is right twice a day). But they are losing.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #120 December 13, 2006 Quote>With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. . Apparently Bush is already distancing himself from the Iraq Study Group, and the next major White House briefing on Iraq is to be led by Rumsfeld and attended by the cronies, so I wouldn't get too optimistic just yet.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #121 December 13, 2006 QuoteBut they are losing. Everybody is losing in this war.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 13, 2006 Everybody is losing in this war.Quote You are right in some respect, everyone is losing something in this war, for us in the US we are losing countless great men and women. As for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #123 December 13, 2006 QuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #124 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003. See, for example, this thread. Victory is receding faster than we can pursue it. We are NOT winning.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #125 December 13, 2006 Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Quote I think he's out job hunting at this moment for a reason. I sort of meant it as a figure of speech, but you're right there are people out there who said otherwise.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing × Sign In Sign Up Forums Dropzones Classifieds Gear Indoor Articles Photos Videos Calendar Stolen Fatalities Subscriptions Leaderboard Activity Back Activity All Activity My Activity Streams Unread Content Content I Started
billvon 3,132 #104 December 12, 2006 >but at least I am in some way taking action to make things better. That's great! We all do what we can. Unfortunately, our leaders are currently using the military to make things worse. And that has to change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #105 December 12, 2006 QuoteIntegrity would be being respectful to any servicemember but it seems that it is conditional to their respective political views. Most likely you don't post my PM's because they do not show anything vicious, and out of context, and have always included comments such as what I think your service has been honorable. So let me get this straight.. after calling me unpatriotic.. a traitor that belongs in GITMO... I am supposed to show you respect and give you a pass on anything you say to someone who does not agree with the war( which is where all this started) because you SUPPOSEDLY are serving this country????? My responses have been based on that which you have dished out to people here who do not agree with your views over and over which seem to be based on South American far right wing political views. They certainly do align nicely with what this administration is trying to take us to....a military junta police state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #106 December 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteNot to mention that you would also have started WWIII. Well, there IS a parallel. Pearl Harbor was what we now call a "pre-emptive strike." If I recall correctly, that one didn't turn out so well for them in the end. It was ultimately ended by attacking the civilian population. Interesting. Never looked at it with the USA wearing the other shoe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #107 December 12, 2006 QuoteAnd before you go and try and pull a tought guy routine look a little closer at what I was calling out, like I said if you want us out of Iraq, voice your opinion, but if someone is going to knock a soldier saying they aren't tough enough to handle the war, they should grab their sack and say it to a soldiers face, they are still more than welcome to voice their opinion I just think people who say such things should experience first hand how well soldiers can really fight. I just had to go back to this. There are SEVERAL right wing posters on here who I would LOVE to meet in person.... who I would say the same thing to them in person face to face. I would love to see if they have the cajones to say the same things to me in person that they have said from behind their keyboards. My boogie schedule is fairly well known. Hell I even went to one of their home DZ's all the way across the country a couple times for events being held there. I made no secret I was going there.... but I guess they really dont jump all that often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #108 December 12, 2006 Both of you cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #110 December 12, 2006 QuoteThere are SEVERAL right wing posters on here who I would LOVE to meet in person.... She met me in person once. I even let her in my car. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #111 December 12, 2006 QuoteIf you can show that your analysis has been better than mine, please do so.Quote Rarely if ever do you see me commenting on the political side of this, things such as the WMD's, whether or not Iraq was a terrorist state, and the like I tend to steer clear of. I prefer to focus my efforts in my debates to things happening on the ground down-range, especially because it directly pertains to me(I comment hear and there about the politics, but not a lot). And as for you being right on all your arguments, good on ya, it's good to know that someone whose biggest contribution to the current global situation is a few posts on a SKYDIVING WEBSITE has been right in all his predictions.. It's not at all difficult being better at predicting what's likely to happen than Bush. In fact, if you just add "NOT" to everything he says, you'd be right most of the time. Anyone can do it . You, Gravitymaster, rushmc and mnealtx could all do it if you took the blinders off for just a few minutes every day.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #112 December 12, 2006 Yeah and you turned out to be a really decent guy... a cute one too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #113 December 12, 2006 QuoteYeah and you turned out to be a really decent guy... a cute one too. Dammit! She remembers!! So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #114 December 12, 2006 That's great! We all do what we can. Unfortunately, our leaders are currently using the military to make things worse. And that has to change. Quote I don't think it's so much the fact that the military IS being used as much as it is the WAY that the military is being used. With a little change in direction I think the military could be much more effective in helping the issues. I apologzie if I took your post the wrong way Bill, I wasn't sure if you were talking about using the military in any fashion or just the way it is currently being used.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #115 December 12, 2006 >With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. >I wasn't sure if you were talking about using the military in any >fashion or just the way it is currently being used. I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #116 December 13, 2006 I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Looking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Two of my teammates just got back today after spending a week over there looking at where we will be operating, answering all the question we had so that we can start planning and packing. It's amazing how much the way we operate has changed since my first two trips, we're going to be doing some great things over there in the next year. The only thing that worries me is we're gonna be out in "indian country" this is where the BIG IED's happen, not the little mortar round in a garbage bag on the side of the road like you see in Baghdad, out there they have sufficient time to plant big ones, such as the double stacked anti tank mine buried in the road in Kirkuk last week, you could hide a vehicle in a crater that sizeHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #117 December 13, 2006 >and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there . . . If the very best thing we could do for the Iraqis would be to get out quickly and let the Iraqi army take over, would that still be a mistake just because someone could claim we were "cutting and running?" I worry that we're making decisions based on our egos rather what's best for Iraq and our troops. I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteLooking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Could someone please tell me what "it" is? What exactly is the mission in Iraq? As far as the "cowards way out," it's called not chasing lost costs. You don't decide your future actions with intent to justify your previous actions. Act for the future, not the past. When was the last time we successfully "built a nation" that was not our own?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #119 December 13, 2006 I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote I think we are seeing eye to eye for the most part on the issue, we need to do something so long as it is not the same course we have been following. If at this very moment we could pull out and the IA would handle the situation by themselves then let's roll(as long as I get my 8 months of tax free status fist) and finish up in Afghanistan while we're on our way home, I don't think that just because we left we are cutting and running. I do however oppose those who say, "let's get out of there and let the Iraqis deal with the rest of the problems, its their country anyways". Like I said, we started it, let's finish it, whether the best course of action to a successful ending is styaing and fighting or leaving and handling it diplomatically. The Iraqi Army is getting better every day, I've had the pleasure of working alongside them and have seen first hand a drastic improvement, they are some good guys and will soon be fully capable on their own. Yes it will cost more of our own along the way, no course of action is without its consequences, the insurgents get lucky here and there and get one of us(remember, even a broken watch is right twice a day). But they are losing.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #120 December 13, 2006 Quote>With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. . Apparently Bush is already distancing himself from the Iraq Study Group, and the next major White House briefing on Iraq is to be led by Rumsfeld and attended by the cronies, so I wouldn't get too optimistic just yet.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #121 December 13, 2006 QuoteBut they are losing. Everybody is losing in this war.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 13, 2006 Everybody is losing in this war.Quote You are right in some respect, everyone is losing something in this war, for us in the US we are losing countless great men and women. As for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #123 December 13, 2006 QuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #124 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003. See, for example, this thread. Victory is receding faster than we can pursue it. We are NOT winning.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #125 December 13, 2006 Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Quote I think he's out job hunting at this moment for a reason. I sort of meant it as a figure of speech, but you're right there are people out there who said otherwise.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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Amazon 7 #112 December 12, 2006 Yeah and you turned out to be a really decent guy... a cute one too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #113 December 12, 2006 QuoteYeah and you turned out to be a really decent guy... a cute one too. Dammit! She remembers!! So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #114 December 12, 2006 That's great! We all do what we can. Unfortunately, our leaders are currently using the military to make things worse. And that has to change. Quote I don't think it's so much the fact that the military IS being used as much as it is the WAY that the military is being used. With a little change in direction I think the military could be much more effective in helping the issues. I apologzie if I took your post the wrong way Bill, I wasn't sure if you were talking about using the military in any fashion or just the way it is currently being used.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #115 December 12, 2006 >With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. >I wasn't sure if you were talking about using the military in any >fashion or just the way it is currently being used. I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #116 December 13, 2006 I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Looking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Two of my teammates just got back today after spending a week over there looking at where we will be operating, answering all the question we had so that we can start planning and packing. It's amazing how much the way we operate has changed since my first two trips, we're going to be doing some great things over there in the next year. The only thing that worries me is we're gonna be out in "indian country" this is where the BIG IED's happen, not the little mortar round in a garbage bag on the side of the road like you see in Baghdad, out there they have sufficient time to plant big ones, such as the double stacked anti tank mine buried in the road in Kirkuk last week, you could hide a vehicle in a crater that sizeHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #117 December 13, 2006 >and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there . . . If the very best thing we could do for the Iraqis would be to get out quickly and let the Iraqi army take over, would that still be a mistake just because someone could claim we were "cutting and running?" I worry that we're making decisions based on our egos rather what's best for Iraq and our troops. I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteLooking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Could someone please tell me what "it" is? What exactly is the mission in Iraq? As far as the "cowards way out," it's called not chasing lost costs. You don't decide your future actions with intent to justify your previous actions. Act for the future, not the past. When was the last time we successfully "built a nation" that was not our own?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #119 December 13, 2006 I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote I think we are seeing eye to eye for the most part on the issue, we need to do something so long as it is not the same course we have been following. If at this very moment we could pull out and the IA would handle the situation by themselves then let's roll(as long as I get my 8 months of tax free status fist) and finish up in Afghanistan while we're on our way home, I don't think that just because we left we are cutting and running. I do however oppose those who say, "let's get out of there and let the Iraqis deal with the rest of the problems, its their country anyways". Like I said, we started it, let's finish it, whether the best course of action to a successful ending is styaing and fighting or leaving and handling it diplomatically. The Iraqi Army is getting better every day, I've had the pleasure of working alongside them and have seen first hand a drastic improvement, they are some good guys and will soon be fully capable on their own. Yes it will cost more of our own along the way, no course of action is without its consequences, the insurgents get lucky here and there and get one of us(remember, even a broken watch is right twice a day). But they are losing.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #120 December 13, 2006 Quote>With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. . Apparently Bush is already distancing himself from the Iraq Study Group, and the next major White House briefing on Iraq is to be led by Rumsfeld and attended by the cronies, so I wouldn't get too optimistic just yet.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #121 December 13, 2006 QuoteBut they are losing. Everybody is losing in this war.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 13, 2006 Everybody is losing in this war.Quote You are right in some respect, everyone is losing something in this war, for us in the US we are losing countless great men and women. As for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #123 December 13, 2006 QuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #124 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003. See, for example, this thread. Victory is receding faster than we can pursue it. We are NOT winning.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #125 December 13, 2006 Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Quote I think he's out job hunting at this moment for a reason. I sort of meant it as a figure of speech, but you're right there are people out there who said otherwise.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
billvon 3,132 #115 December 12, 2006 >With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. >I wasn't sure if you were talking about using the military in any >fashion or just the way it is currently being used. I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #116 December 13, 2006 I think the initial use of the military in Afghanistan was a good call; Iraq was a mistake. But now that we're there, there are certainly smart and not-so-smart ways to use the military. I hope we go with the smart ways. Quote Looking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Two of my teammates just got back today after spending a week over there looking at where we will be operating, answering all the question we had so that we can start planning and packing. It's amazing how much the way we operate has changed since my first two trips, we're going to be doing some great things over there in the next year. The only thing that worries me is we're gonna be out in "indian country" this is where the BIG IED's happen, not the little mortar round in a garbage bag on the side of the road like you see in Baghdad, out there they have sufficient time to plant big ones, such as the double stacked anti tank mine buried in the road in Kirkuk last week, you could hide a vehicle in a crater that sizeHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #117 December 13, 2006 >and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there . . . If the very best thing we could do for the Iraqis would be to get out quickly and let the Iraqi army take over, would that still be a mistake just because someone could claim we were "cutting and running?" I worry that we're making decisions based on our egos rather what's best for Iraq and our troops. I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteLooking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Could someone please tell me what "it" is? What exactly is the mission in Iraq? As far as the "cowards way out," it's called not chasing lost costs. You don't decide your future actions with intent to justify your previous actions. Act for the future, not the past. When was the last time we successfully "built a nation" that was not our own?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #119 December 13, 2006 I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote I think we are seeing eye to eye for the most part on the issue, we need to do something so long as it is not the same course we have been following. If at this very moment we could pull out and the IA would handle the situation by themselves then let's roll(as long as I get my 8 months of tax free status fist) and finish up in Afghanistan while we're on our way home, I don't think that just because we left we are cutting and running. I do however oppose those who say, "let's get out of there and let the Iraqis deal with the rest of the problems, its their country anyways". Like I said, we started it, let's finish it, whether the best course of action to a successful ending is styaing and fighting or leaving and handling it diplomatically. The Iraqi Army is getting better every day, I've had the pleasure of working alongside them and have seen first hand a drastic improvement, they are some good guys and will soon be fully capable on their own. Yes it will cost more of our own along the way, no course of action is without its consequences, the insurgents get lucky here and there and get one of us(remember, even a broken watch is right twice a day). But they are losing.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #120 December 13, 2006 Quote>With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. . Apparently Bush is already distancing himself from the Iraq Study Group, and the next major White House briefing on Iraq is to be led by Rumsfeld and attended by the cronies, so I wouldn't get too optimistic just yet.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #121 December 13, 2006 QuoteBut they are losing. Everybody is losing in this war.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 13, 2006 Everybody is losing in this war.Quote You are right in some respect, everyone is losing something in this war, for us in the US we are losing countless great men and women. As for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #123 December 13, 2006 QuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #124 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003. See, for example, this thread. Victory is receding faster than we can pursue it. We are NOT winning.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #125 December 13, 2006 Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Quote I think he's out job hunting at this moment for a reason. I sort of meant it as a figure of speech, but you're right there are people out there who said otherwise.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
billvon 3,132 #117 December 13, 2006 >and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there . . . If the very best thing we could do for the Iraqis would be to get out quickly and let the Iraqi army take over, would that still be a mistake just because someone could claim we were "cutting and running?" I worry that we're making decisions based on our egos rather what's best for Iraq and our troops. I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteLooking back at the invasion of Iraq I see both good and bad coming out of us actually entering the country, and I still have hope that we can pull it off over there, no matter how much people say cut and run, I say screw that, that would be the cowards way out, we started it we finish it. Could someone please tell me what "it" is? What exactly is the mission in Iraq? As far as the "cowards way out," it's called not chasing lost costs. You don't decide your future actions with intent to justify your previous actions. Act for the future, not the past. When was the last time we successfully "built a nation" that was not our own?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #119 December 13, 2006 I don't know what the right answer is, but I think that the worst thing we could do is more of the same. It hasn't worked yet, and is just plunging us deeper into chaos there. I think we have to have the courage to admit that we're making mistakes and be willing to fix them. Quote I think we are seeing eye to eye for the most part on the issue, we need to do something so long as it is not the same course we have been following. If at this very moment we could pull out and the IA would handle the situation by themselves then let's roll(as long as I get my 8 months of tax free status fist) and finish up in Afghanistan while we're on our way home, I don't think that just because we left we are cutting and running. I do however oppose those who say, "let's get out of there and let the Iraqis deal with the rest of the problems, its their country anyways". Like I said, we started it, let's finish it, whether the best course of action to a successful ending is styaing and fighting or leaving and handling it diplomatically. The Iraqi Army is getting better every day, I've had the pleasure of working alongside them and have seen first hand a drastic improvement, they are some good guys and will soon be fully capable on their own. Yes it will cost more of our own along the way, no course of action is without its consequences, the insurgents get lucky here and there and get one of us(remember, even a broken watch is right twice a day). But they are losing.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #120 December 13, 2006 Quote>With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. . Apparently Bush is already distancing himself from the Iraq Study Group, and the next major White House briefing on Iraq is to be led by Rumsfeld and attended by the cronies, so I wouldn't get too optimistic just yet.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #121 December 13, 2006 QuoteBut they are losing. Everybody is losing in this war.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 13, 2006 Everybody is losing in this war.Quote You are right in some respect, everyone is losing something in this war, for us in the US we are losing countless great men and women. As for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #123 December 13, 2006 QuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #124 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003. See, for example, this thread. Victory is receding faster than we can pursue it. We are NOT winning.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #125 December 13, 2006 Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Quote I think he's out job hunting at this moment for a reason. I sort of meant it as a figure of speech, but you're right there are people out there who said otherwise.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kallend 2,182 #120 December 13, 2006 Quote>With a little change in direction I think the military could be much > more effective in helping the issues. I agree, and I hope we can make those changes in direction, for the sake of everyone involved. . Apparently Bush is already distancing himself from the Iraq Study Group, and the next major White House briefing on Iraq is to be led by Rumsfeld and attended by the cronies, so I wouldn't get too optimistic just yet.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #121 December 13, 2006 QuoteBut they are losing. Everybody is losing in this war.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 13, 2006 Everybody is losing in this war.Quote You are right in some respect, everyone is losing something in this war, for us in the US we are losing countless great men and women. As for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #123 December 13, 2006 QuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #124 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003. See, for example, this thread. Victory is receding faster than we can pursue it. We are NOT winning.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #125 December 13, 2006 Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Quote I think he's out job hunting at this moment for a reason. I sort of meant it as a figure of speech, but you're right there are people out there who said otherwise.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jcd11235 0 #123 December 13, 2006 QuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #124 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs for the war itself, even if the media doesn't portray it, we are inching closer to victory, nobody ever said the war would go quickly. Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003. See, for example, this thread. Victory is receding faster than we can pursue it. We are NOT winning.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #125 December 13, 2006 Rumsfeld assured us it would not even take six months, back in 2003.Quote I think he's out job hunting at this moment for a reason. I sort of meant it as a figure of speech, but you're right there are people out there who said otherwise.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
