rushmc 23 #101 December 11, 2006 "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #102 December 11, 2006 Quote I do find it interesting that James Baker's law firm is defending the Saudis against lawsuits brought by the victims and their families of 9/11 and that he is very involved with the Saudis as I already posted above. . It's really not that surprising. Not that this is news to anyone but Baker and the Bush's have very strong ties to the Saudi's. It's all about the money, always has been, always will be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #103 December 11, 2006 All these people who talk about "winning" or "surrender" clearly don't understand the nature of the current campaign in Iraq. Wake Up, Already! This isn't a conventional war!!! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #104 December 11, 2006 QuoteAll these people who talk about "winning" or "surrender" clearly don't understand the nature of the current campaign in Iraq. Wake Up, Already! This isn't a conventional war!!! Very true, to win this war will take decades IMO. Iraq is just the beginning. I watched a show on Fox News O North about the truth of Islam. Scarry shit if it is all true. The US needs to start looking very carefully at who we call allies!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #105 December 11, 2006 It seems to me that the war against Islamic-extremist terrorism, and the countries that support it, will not be entirely "won" until we no longer need petroleum as a fuel source. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #106 December 11, 2006 Quote I watched a show on Fox News O North about the truth ...... And that's where you lost me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #107 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuote I watched a show on Fox News O North about the truth ...... And that's where you lost me Sorry, Just one point of view but some on this site have spoken about our judgement choosing some of the allies over there and they may have a very good point"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #108 December 11, 2006 >>All these people who talk about "winning" or "surrender" clearly >>don't understand the nature of the current campaign in Iraq. >Very true, to win this war will take decades IMO. Perfect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #109 December 11, 2006 Quote>>All these people who talk about "winning" or "surrender" clearly >>don't understand the nature of the current campaign in Iraq. >Very true, to win this war will take decades IMO. Perfect. You must now have a better understanding of what is going on (and what is really at stake) than you had before."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #110 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuote>>All these people who talk about "winning" or "surrender" clearly >>don't understand the nature of the current campaign in Iraq. >Very true, to win this war will take decades IMO. Perfect. You must now have a better understanding of what is going on (and what is really at stake) than you had before. Oceana, in a state of perpetual war. Where do you fall in this picture?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #111 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuote>>All these people who talk about "winning" or "surrender" clearly >>don't understand the nature of the current campaign in Iraq. >Very true, to win this war will take decades IMO. Perfect. You must now have a better understanding of what is going on (and what is really at stake) than you had before. )(Bill, please correct me if I'm wrong) But I think what billvon was pointing out is that first I posted about how talking of "winning" this type of a war doesn't really make sense. Then you replied by saying "very true" and THEN talking about how long it will take to "win" it. What I was trying to say is that this isn't a war like our Civil war or WWII, in which you move vast armies against other armies, and take over territory through advancement & winning certain decisive battles. This is an insurgency, made up of different elements (foreign jihadists, and also, now more & more sectarian militias). In this case, no one is even considering something as ridiculous as "surrendering" to the insurgents. Nor can we talk of winning the war. It's not that type of war. There's no centralized command. An insurgency does not get surrendered to, but nor can you really win against it. You can only hope to contain it in the odd places it crops up. But with no central command, there's no point of surrender or defeat or winning. Just an imperfect period of containment over an undefined, but very very long period of time. Which doesn't really end for us until we decide leave, although it will probably go on even after we leave. But let's get rid of these terms like "defeat" or "win" or "lose" or "surrender" because they don't apply to this type of warfare. This ain't the 1940's, people. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #112 December 11, 2006 >(Bill, please correct me if I'm wrong) Nope, right on. But the "surrender" rhetoric will continue, because playing on people's fears of "looking like losers" is a good angle to use with people who favor emotional over rational argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #113 December 11, 2006 QuoteNope, right on. But the "surrender" rhetoric will continue, because playing on people's fears of "looking like losers" is a good angle to use with people who favor emotional over rational argument. Since some people believe this will be a really long war... it does give those who support it so vehemently a LOT more time in which to enlist and go do something about it... instead of expecting others to do it for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #114 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote>>All these people who talk about "winning" or "surrender" clearly >>don't understand the nature of the current campaign in Iraq. >Very true, to win this war will take decades IMO. Perfect. You must now have a better understanding of what is going on (and what is really at stake) than you had before. Oceana, in a state of perpetual war. Where do you fall in this picture? I thought about it later and realized you and others would take my post this way. My meaning was more meant that the war against this enemy, and he can be very clearly definded, will take the decades I spoke of. This does not mean armies in Iraq or other countries (although it could happen) fighting the way we are in Iraq today. This enemy has hyjacked a religion to draw in young men to kill themselves while killing others. And for no better reason than we do not accept or agree with the religion they believe in. Simple (to a point) to explain but not so simple to see, define and ..........."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #115 December 11, 2006 QuoteThis enemy has hyjacked a religion to draw in young men to kill themselves while killing others. And for no better reason than we do not accept or agree with the religion they believe in. The violence in Iraq is because they are muslim and a majority of Americans is christian? If somebody invaded my country, resulting in killing much of my family in friends, I would be angry too....angry enough to kill, regardless of religion. Funny enough, muslim extremism in Iraq wasn't that much of a problem until the US decided to invade. I get this funny feeling that if the US had left Iraq "alone", it still wouldn't be. So, what is more to blame for the current quagmire in Iraq? The actions of the US or muslim extremism? I don't think you can point the finger to one. I would say both are very responsible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #116 December 11, 2006 >And for no better reason than we do not accept or agree with the >religion they believe in. Uh, most of the people being killed in Iraq right now are muslims. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #117 December 11, 2006 QuoteThis was a complete was of time, effort money and emotion. It is that simple Are you talking about the report or the invasion of Iraq? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #118 December 12, 2006 Quote>And for no better reason than we do not accept or agree with the >religion they believe in. Uh, most of the people being killed in Iraq right now are muslims. True. There's a lot of muslim-on- muslim killing going on. There's been a rise in sectarian militia violence, in addition to the suicide bombings that have always been going on (most of the suicide bombings are done by Al Quaeda in Iraq & other jihadists, often foreigners; whereas many of the sectarian militias are Iraqis) Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #119 December 12, 2006 QuoteQuote Only a child would be disappointed by a Politician. I suppose now you are going to admit you were fooled? Is that really what you are saying? BTW you confuse the truth with your truth. . In that case why did you bother to write that Bush never claimed himself to be a conservative? You DID write that, www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2542394#2542394 and it IS untrue. Unless someone was impersonating you when you wrote that, I don't think I'm the one having trouble with the truth here. As far as my being fooled by Bush, that warrants an irony score of 15 on a scale of 0 - 10. I have written for years that Bush is an incompetent and a liar, as well you know. I said it then, I said it now and I said it before the elections in 2000. Because you want it to be true doesn't make it so. I think my cat is beginning to bark. What makes you think Bush is a Conservative? A tax cut? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #120 December 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteNope, right on. But the "surrender" rhetoric will continue, because playing on people's fears of "looking like losers" is a good angle to use with people who favor emotional over rational argument. Since some people believe this will be a really long war... it does give those who support it so vehemently a LOT more time in which to enlist and go do something about it... instead of expecting others to do it for them. People like most of the members of the ISG, perhaps? Only 3 of them served in the military, from what I can see... and only one looks like he actually saw combat. I guess that makes them 'chickenhawks', too, since they're saying that we'll need more troops over in Iraq, but I don't see any of them going...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #121 December 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Only a child would be disappointed by a Politician. I suppose now you are going to admit you were fooled? Is that really what you are saying? BTW you confuse the truth with your truth. . In that case why did you bother to write that Bush never claimed himself to be a conservative? You DID write that, www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2542394#2542394 and it IS untrue. Unless someone was impersonating you when you wrote that, I don't think I'm the one having trouble with the truth here. As far as my being fooled by Bush, that warrants an irony score of 15 on a scale of 0 - 10. I have written for years that Bush is an incompetent and a liar, as well you know. I said it then, I said it now and I said it before the elections in 2000. Because you want it to be true doesn't make it so. I think my cat is beginning to bark. What makes you think Bush is a Conservative? A tax cut? - I don't want Bush to be anything except an ex-President. He SAID "I am a conservative". Now you're telling us he lied. That's cool... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #122 December 12, 2006 Quote>And for no better reason than we do not accept or agree with the >religion they believe in. Uh, most of the people being killed in Iraq right now are muslims. They have a sick way of fighting a war don't they. And if you really do not know the reasons for this tactic I can try and explain it to you"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #123 December 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteThis enemy has hyjacked a religion to draw in young men to kill themselves while killing others. And for no better reason than we do not accept or agree with the religion they believe in. The violence in Iraq is because they are muslim and a majority of Americans is christian? If somebody invaded my country, resulting in killing much of my family in friends, I would be angry too....angry enough to kill, regardless of religion. Funny enough, muslim extremism in Iraq wasn't that much of a problem until the US decided to invade. I get this funny feeling that if the US had left Iraq "alone", it still wouldn't be. So, what is more to blame for the current quagmire in Iraq? The actions of the US or muslim extremism? I don't think you can point the finger to one. I would say both are very responsible. That is not it ....."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #124 December 12, 2006 Quote This enemy has hyjacked a religion to draw in young men to kill themselves while killing others. Agreed, wholeheartedly. And for no better reason than we do not accept or agree with the religion they believe in. Couldn't disagree more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #125 December 12, 2006 QuoteThat is not it ..... Well of course not. it couldn't be, cause that would have the US carry soem blame.....and that is utterly unthinkable.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
