billvon 3,116 #26 December 7, 2006 >If you think pulling out is success you have not looked at what is happening. Well, we know staying is losing. So we need another alternative. I've given a few. What's your solution? Just keep losing? Start a media blitz to claim we're winning, stay on the same path, then just stay there until all our soldiers (or all the Iraqis) are dead? That would be foolish. Use nuclear weapons on the troublesome cities? That would be even dumber. Start a draft so we can double our forces over there? I doubt even the most rabid war supporters would go for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #27 December 7, 2006 QuoteIf we leave then more US citizens will die here in the US. It is that simple What information do you have to support this idea? Is it based on credible research, or perhaps something you heard in a political speech? Personally, I've only heard it as part of political rhetoric, and not from any reliable source.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #28 December 7, 2006 Here you go: A quick look at Iraq’s history reveals that government intervention, beginning with the British government’s meddling after World War I, is primarily responsible for the country’s current problems. The British created the artificial state of Iraq from the rubble of the Ottoman Empire. Throughout its history, Iraq has been held together only by brute force of authoritarian power. Although the various ethnic and religious groups in Iraq traditionally have lived in peace, during Saddam’s rule, he deliberately stoked ethnic and religious cleavages in a “divide and conquer” strategy. After the naïve U.S. invasion removed the only brake on Iraqi centrifugal forces, Saddam’s earlier fueling of sectarian animosities has come home to roost in the current civil war between the Sunni and Shi’a. Even though the interventions of governments have caused most of Iraq’s current difficulties, the Bush administration and other conservatives, such as George Will, apparently believe that somehow stronger government is also the answer. Quite the contrary. Will argues that in the absence of a strong central government “sectarian clustering” will occur. Sectarian clustering is not necessarily a bad thing unless compelled by force of arms. People should be allowed to live freely where they want. The problem in Iraq was that the Sunni insurgents deliberately struck Shi’ite targets to provoke Shi’ite militias into the civil war that has already begun. And the Sunnis began their insurgency for three reasons. The first was to oust the U.S. government’s occupation of their homeland and later the Shi’ite/Kurdish interim government that it was propping up. The second was to avoid paybacks for the excesses of the Saddam era by that and future Iraqi Shi’ite/Kurdish central governments. The third was to prevent the Shi’ite/Kurdish government from controlling all of Iraq’s oil wealth—which lies mainly in the northern Kurdish and southern Shi’ite regions of the country—and perhaps leaving the Sunnis without any if those regions decided to become autonomous or secede from Iraq, as seems increasingly likely. In fact, perhaps the solution to Iraq lies in such sectarian clustering. Instead of fighting the powerful centrifugal forces in Iraq, perhaps the United States and the Iraqis should embrace them. A grand conclave of all Iraqi groups should be held to negotiate the decentralization of Iraq. Such an arrangement would probably entail a very loose confederation with a weak central government or an outright partition (with each group not necessarily inhabiting contiguous areas) with no Iraqi central government. Minimizing or eliminating the central government would eliminate the fear by Iraqi groups that the central government would be taken over by one group and used to oppress all others. To get the Sunnis to agree to such decentralization and to quell their fears that they would be left with only a rump state devoid of oil revenues, the Shi’a and Kurds would need to reach an oil revenue sharing agreement with them or actually give them territory containing oil wells. To encourage the Shi’a and the Kurds to make such concessions, the United States should announce a rapid withdrawal of the U.S. forces that are now artificially propping up the Iraqi central government. The reality is that Iraq is already effectively decentralized. Numerous militias control large areas and cannot be disarmed. Also, the Bush administration makes the questionable assumption that the Iraqi security forces will remain national and not break up to match the sectarian divides in Iraqi society. Yet the administration and many other conservatives, who would never embrace big government solutions at home, are proponents of strengthening the Iraq government. But to really be effective in holding the fractious Iraqi society together, the central government would probably have to resume Saddam-like dictatorial powers—something that no one wants. The United States should attempt to spur peaceful negotiations to codify the de facto decentralization on the ground rather than continuing its bid to impose an unworkable U.S.-style federation on Iraq. Current U.S. policy will continue to exacerbate, rather than dampen, the ongoing civil war. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #29 December 7, 2006 QuoteI like this one better. http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20061207/cm_rcp/captain_obvious_to_the_rescue My favorite part: QuoteSince Iran and Syria are the most important source of the chaos in Iraq, then we need to topple those regimes. They won't agree to help us, because doing so does not and never will serve their interests. So we have to replace them with governments that do share our interests--or at least, with governments that will stay out of our way. Isn't that exactly what we are having so much trouble doing in Iraq? Captain Obvious to the rescue.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #30 December 7, 2006 Some very good points"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #31 December 7, 2006 No, you "SAY" staying is loosing. I did not read any farther..."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #32 December 7, 2006 QuoteQuoteOh, and true leader lead. they do not wet a finger and follow a wind..... More like a stampede, Marc. And while it may be true that a true leader doesn't always just follow the wind of popularity, it's also true that a true leader can't be so isolated and insulated from the truth that he is clueless to it. And this guy is, or at least has been up to now. (I will concede this, though: the monkey pics were damn funny.) Worse shit was said about Abraham Lincoln BTW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #33 December 7, 2006 You need only comprehend what they say!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #34 December 7, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteOh, and true leader lead. they do not wet a finger and follow a wind..... More like a stampede, Marc. And while it may be true that a true leader doesn't always just follow the wind of popularity, it's also true that a true leader can't be so isolated and insulated from the truth that he is clueless to it. And this guy is, or at least has been up to now. (I will concede this, though: the monkey pics were damn funny.) Worse shit was said about Abraham Lincoln BTW I agree. Looked like an orangutan, he did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #35 December 7, 2006 >No, you "SAY" staying is loosing. Yes. Right now - staying and doing the same thing over and over - we are losing. Deaths are up. Violence is up. The government is falling apart. No matter what the objective du jour is, we're not achieving it. Staying and not doing a damn thing differently while it continues to get worse is a bad idea. Reality has caught up with all the glowing promises about how great this war was going to be. No one believes "everything is GREAT in Iraq; the media's just lying about it" any more. It's time to change course and stop losing. >I did not read any farther... Good for you! Hey, it works for ostriches . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #36 December 7, 2006 No, you "SAY" staying is loosing. Yes. Right now....Quote Hmm, Tony Blair does not agree with you either"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,588 #37 December 7, 2006 Hi wall. Meet head. Again. Hi wall. Meet head. Again. Hi wall. Meet head. Again. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,116 #38 December 7, 2006 >Tony Blair does not agree with you either Neither does Bush. It's hard to admit that you've done a bad job and have to change course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #39 December 7, 2006 I know you can change"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #40 December 8, 2006 QuoteYou need only comprehend what they say! What who say? They? The same "they" that said Marcellus threw Tony "Rocky Horror" through a fourth story window for massaging his wife's feet? Who is this "they" you speak of?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #41 December 8, 2006 the pres of Iran, the clerics, those leading the death and destruction in Iraq"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #42 December 8, 2006 Quotethe pres of Iran, the clerics, those leading the death and destruction in Iraq The President of Iran and the "clerics" have said that if we leave Iraq, they'll attack us in the US? I think that would have made the news. Could you please provide a link?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #43 December 8, 2006 QuoteIf we leave then more US citizens will die here in the US. It is that simple Really? You have some sort of, ahem, FutureCam™ that can know this for certain? I recall certain people saying all sorts of things they thought where going to happen when we removed Saddam from power. A LOT of what they said was going to happen didn't and quite a bit of what they said WASN'T going to happen did. This crystal ball thing is a bit tricky.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #44 December 8, 2006 QuoteQuote>Failure huh . . . Yep. Getting Saddam - success Finding WMD's - failure (I suppose in a narrow view) Freeing Iraqis from tyranny - failure (Really??) "Ending torture chambers, rape rooms and mass graves forever" - failure (twisted viewpoint) Creating a stable democracy in the Middle East - failure (ya, it will happen in a day ) Denying terrorists a training ground - failure (tbey are dying here you know) Getting Bin Laden - failure (ya, so we should surrender) Eliminating the Taliban - failure (they have less power and freedom but, if it can't be done in a day forget it) Reducing terrorism worldwide - failure (a narrow un-verifiable claim) He's 1 for 9. That's even lower than his approval rating. Time to stop losing. You should..... Oh, and true leader lead. they do not wet a finger and follow a wind..... A leader who sends his troops into a quagmire against the advice of his top generals is not very competent, even if he is "true". What we need is a competent leader.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #45 December 8, 2006 Quote>Failure huh . . . Yep. Getting Saddam - success Finding WMD's - failure Freeing Iraqis from tyranny - failure "Ending torture chambers, rape rooms and mass graves forever" - failure Creating a stable democracy in the Middle East - failure Denying terrorists a training ground - failure Getting Bin Laden - failure Eliminating the Taliban - failure Reducing terrorism worldwide - failure He's 1 for 9. That's even lower than his approval rating. Time to stop losing. You forgot: "I want to be a War President" - success Enrich Halliburton stockholders - success... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #46 December 8, 2006 QuoteEnrich Halliburton stockholders - success Hardly. Hallibutons stock was trading at around $10.50 per share at the time of the Iraq War. It is currently trading at about $32.80 per share. I wouldn't consider a $22.00 increase in a stocks price over 5 1/2 years a huge success. Good, but not huge. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart2:symbol=hal;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Compare that to Apple Computer over the same time frame. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart1:symbol=aapl;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Glad I dumped my HAL for AAPL in 2004. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #47 December 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote>Failure huh . . . Yep. Getting Saddam - success Finding WMD's - failure (I suppose in a narrow view) Freeing Iraqis from tyranny - failure (Really??) "Ending torture chambers, rape rooms and mass graves forever" - failure (twisted viewpoint) Creating a stable democracy in the Middle East - failure (ya, it will happen in a day ) Denying terrorists a training ground - failure (tbey are dying here you know) Getting Bin Laden - failure (ya, so we should surrender) Eliminating the Taliban - failure (they have less power and freedom but, if it can't be done in a day forget it) Reducing terrorism worldwide - failure (a narrow un-verifiable claim) He's 1 for 9. That's even lower than his approval rating. Time to stop losing. You should..... Oh, and true leader lead. they do not wet a finger and follow a wind..... QuoteA leader who sends his troops into a quagmire against the advice of his top generals is not very competent, even if he is "true". So now it's gone from a few Generals, to his top Generals? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #48 December 8, 2006 QuoteYeah.... That stinking LIBm James Baker! What does he know anyway??? Apparently quite a bit. http://www.bakerbotts.com/offices/office.aspx?id=733fc9ba-30df-43fd-87b1-f91808f53570 QuoteLaw Office of Mohanned bin Saud Al-Rasheed, in Association with Baker Botts L.L.P., P.O. Box 62982 | 11595 | Kingdom of Saudi Arabia | +966.1.464.3139 Baker Botts offers great depth of experience and knowledge in the Middle East and broad-based expertise in energy-related project development and finance. We represent clients in the region not only in the energy industry but also in the telecommunications, manufacturing, transportation, construction, and banking industries, among others. The firm's practice also encompasses transactional work, including entity formation and structuring, contract negotiation, and banking and finance, as well as litigation and arbitration matters internationally. Lawyers in the Riyadh office have served in community positions throughout Riyadh and Saudi Arabia as a whole. For example, since 1996 we have had lawyers acting as general counsel for the National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce and the Saudi Arabia country coordinator for the American Bar Association's Section on International Law and Practice. In addition, the perspective and experience of James A. Baker III, 61st U.S. Secretary of State and 67th U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, and Robert W. Jordan, who recently served as U.S. Ambassador to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, offer our clients additional resources on which to rely in the region. Baker Botts lawyers in Riyadh are frequently called upon to advise U.S. and Saudi companies and to speak on subjects relating to finance and energy in the region. and this. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3067906/ QuoteApril 16 - After months of working below the radar, a huge U.S. legal team hired by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has sprung into action and begun a major counteroffensive against a landmark lawsuit seeking $1 trillion in damages on behalf of the victims of the September 11 terror attacks. THE OPENING DEFENSE SALVO in what promises to be a bruising legal battle was fired last week when a trio of lawyers from Baker Botts, a prestigious Houston-based law firm, filed a motion on behalf of Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz, the Saudi defense minister. The motion attacked the 9-11 lawsuit as a “broadside indictment of Saudi government, religion and culture.” It also argued that, as the third-ranking official of a foreign government, their client is immune from any U.S. legal action and that he should therefore be dismissed from the case altogether. But in laying out their arguments, Sultan’s U.S. lawyers also presented highly detailed new evidence of the Saudi government’s role in funneling millions of dollars to a web of Islamic charities that are widely suspected by U.S. officials of covertly financing the operations of Al Qaeda and other international terrorist groups. Kinda takes away that warm and fuzzy feeling doesn't it? I'd say Mr. Baker has some splainin to do. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #49 December 8, 2006 A leader who sends his troops into a quagmire against the advice of his top generals is not very competent, even if he is "true".Quote You find one out of dozens and that is one you pick. Your credibility is slipping"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likearock 2 #50 December 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteEnrich Halliburton stockholders - success Hardly. Hallibutons stock was trading at around $10.50 per share at the time of the Iraq War. It is currently trading at about $32.80 per share. I wouldn't consider a $22.00 increase in a stocks price over 5 1/2 years a huge success. Good, but not huge. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart2:symbol=hal;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Compare that to Apple Computer over the same time frame. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart1:symbol=aapl;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Glad I dumped my HAL for AAPL in 2004. - You gotta be kidding. A 200% increase over 5 years (over 40% annual yield) is not a great investment. What are you smoking? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 9 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
wmw999 2,588 #37 December 7, 2006 Hi wall. Meet head. Again. Hi wall. Meet head. Again. Hi wall. Meet head. Again. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #38 December 7, 2006 >Tony Blair does not agree with you either Neither does Bush. It's hard to admit that you've done a bad job and have to change course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #39 December 7, 2006 I know you can change"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #40 December 8, 2006 QuoteYou need only comprehend what they say! What who say? They? The same "they" that said Marcellus threw Tony "Rocky Horror" through a fourth story window for massaging his wife's feet? Who is this "they" you speak of?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #41 December 8, 2006 the pres of Iran, the clerics, those leading the death and destruction in Iraq"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #42 December 8, 2006 Quotethe pres of Iran, the clerics, those leading the death and destruction in Iraq The President of Iran and the "clerics" have said that if we leave Iraq, they'll attack us in the US? I think that would have made the news. Could you please provide a link?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #43 December 8, 2006 QuoteIf we leave then more US citizens will die here in the US. It is that simple Really? You have some sort of, ahem, FutureCam™ that can know this for certain? I recall certain people saying all sorts of things they thought where going to happen when we removed Saddam from power. A LOT of what they said was going to happen didn't and quite a bit of what they said WASN'T going to happen did. This crystal ball thing is a bit tricky.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #44 December 8, 2006 QuoteQuote>Failure huh . . . Yep. Getting Saddam - success Finding WMD's - failure (I suppose in a narrow view) Freeing Iraqis from tyranny - failure (Really??) "Ending torture chambers, rape rooms and mass graves forever" - failure (twisted viewpoint) Creating a stable democracy in the Middle East - failure (ya, it will happen in a day ) Denying terrorists a training ground - failure (tbey are dying here you know) Getting Bin Laden - failure (ya, so we should surrender) Eliminating the Taliban - failure (they have less power and freedom but, if it can't be done in a day forget it) Reducing terrorism worldwide - failure (a narrow un-verifiable claim) He's 1 for 9. That's even lower than his approval rating. Time to stop losing. You should..... Oh, and true leader lead. they do not wet a finger and follow a wind..... A leader who sends his troops into a quagmire against the advice of his top generals is not very competent, even if he is "true". What we need is a competent leader.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #45 December 8, 2006 Quote>Failure huh . . . Yep. Getting Saddam - success Finding WMD's - failure Freeing Iraqis from tyranny - failure "Ending torture chambers, rape rooms and mass graves forever" - failure Creating a stable democracy in the Middle East - failure Denying terrorists a training ground - failure Getting Bin Laden - failure Eliminating the Taliban - failure Reducing terrorism worldwide - failure He's 1 for 9. That's even lower than his approval rating. Time to stop losing. You forgot: "I want to be a War President" - success Enrich Halliburton stockholders - success... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #46 December 8, 2006 QuoteEnrich Halliburton stockholders - success Hardly. Hallibutons stock was trading at around $10.50 per share at the time of the Iraq War. It is currently trading at about $32.80 per share. I wouldn't consider a $22.00 increase in a stocks price over 5 1/2 years a huge success. Good, but not huge. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart2:symbol=hal;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Compare that to Apple Computer over the same time frame. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart1:symbol=aapl;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Glad I dumped my HAL for AAPL in 2004. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #47 December 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote>Failure huh . . . Yep. Getting Saddam - success Finding WMD's - failure (I suppose in a narrow view) Freeing Iraqis from tyranny - failure (Really??) "Ending torture chambers, rape rooms and mass graves forever" - failure (twisted viewpoint) Creating a stable democracy in the Middle East - failure (ya, it will happen in a day ) Denying terrorists a training ground - failure (tbey are dying here you know) Getting Bin Laden - failure (ya, so we should surrender) Eliminating the Taliban - failure (they have less power and freedom but, if it can't be done in a day forget it) Reducing terrorism worldwide - failure (a narrow un-verifiable claim) He's 1 for 9. That's even lower than his approval rating. Time to stop losing. You should..... Oh, and true leader lead. they do not wet a finger and follow a wind..... QuoteA leader who sends his troops into a quagmire against the advice of his top generals is not very competent, even if he is "true". So now it's gone from a few Generals, to his top Generals? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #48 December 8, 2006 QuoteYeah.... That stinking LIBm James Baker! What does he know anyway??? Apparently quite a bit. http://www.bakerbotts.com/offices/office.aspx?id=733fc9ba-30df-43fd-87b1-f91808f53570 QuoteLaw Office of Mohanned bin Saud Al-Rasheed, in Association with Baker Botts L.L.P., P.O. Box 62982 | 11595 | Kingdom of Saudi Arabia | +966.1.464.3139 Baker Botts offers great depth of experience and knowledge in the Middle East and broad-based expertise in energy-related project development and finance. We represent clients in the region not only in the energy industry but also in the telecommunications, manufacturing, transportation, construction, and banking industries, among others. The firm's practice also encompasses transactional work, including entity formation and structuring, contract negotiation, and banking and finance, as well as litigation and arbitration matters internationally. Lawyers in the Riyadh office have served in community positions throughout Riyadh and Saudi Arabia as a whole. For example, since 1996 we have had lawyers acting as general counsel for the National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce and the Saudi Arabia country coordinator for the American Bar Association's Section on International Law and Practice. In addition, the perspective and experience of James A. Baker III, 61st U.S. Secretary of State and 67th U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, and Robert W. Jordan, who recently served as U.S. Ambassador to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, offer our clients additional resources on which to rely in the region. Baker Botts lawyers in Riyadh are frequently called upon to advise U.S. and Saudi companies and to speak on subjects relating to finance and energy in the region. and this. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3067906/ QuoteApril 16 - After months of working below the radar, a huge U.S. legal team hired by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has sprung into action and begun a major counteroffensive against a landmark lawsuit seeking $1 trillion in damages on behalf of the victims of the September 11 terror attacks. THE OPENING DEFENSE SALVO in what promises to be a bruising legal battle was fired last week when a trio of lawyers from Baker Botts, a prestigious Houston-based law firm, filed a motion on behalf of Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz, the Saudi defense minister. The motion attacked the 9-11 lawsuit as a “broadside indictment of Saudi government, religion and culture.” It also argued that, as the third-ranking official of a foreign government, their client is immune from any U.S. legal action and that he should therefore be dismissed from the case altogether. But in laying out their arguments, Sultan’s U.S. lawyers also presented highly detailed new evidence of the Saudi government’s role in funneling millions of dollars to a web of Islamic charities that are widely suspected by U.S. officials of covertly financing the operations of Al Qaeda and other international terrorist groups. Kinda takes away that warm and fuzzy feeling doesn't it? I'd say Mr. Baker has some splainin to do. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #49 December 8, 2006 A leader who sends his troops into a quagmire against the advice of his top generals is not very competent, even if he is "true".Quote You find one out of dozens and that is one you pick. Your credibility is slipping"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likearock 2 #50 December 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteEnrich Halliburton stockholders - success Hardly. Hallibutons stock was trading at around $10.50 per share at the time of the Iraq War. It is currently trading at about $32.80 per share. I wouldn't consider a $22.00 increase in a stocks price over 5 1/2 years a huge success. Good, but not huge. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart2:symbol=hal;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Compare that to Apple Computer over the same time frame. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart1:symbol=aapl;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Glad I dumped my HAL for AAPL in 2004. - You gotta be kidding. A 200% increase over 5 years (over 40% annual yield) is not a great investment. What are you smoking? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 9 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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Gravitymaster 0 #48 December 8, 2006 QuoteYeah.... That stinking LIBm James Baker! What does he know anyway??? Apparently quite a bit. http://www.bakerbotts.com/offices/office.aspx?id=733fc9ba-30df-43fd-87b1-f91808f53570 QuoteLaw Office of Mohanned bin Saud Al-Rasheed, in Association with Baker Botts L.L.P., P.O. Box 62982 | 11595 | Kingdom of Saudi Arabia | +966.1.464.3139 Baker Botts offers great depth of experience and knowledge in the Middle East and broad-based expertise in energy-related project development and finance. We represent clients in the region not only in the energy industry but also in the telecommunications, manufacturing, transportation, construction, and banking industries, among others. The firm's practice also encompasses transactional work, including entity formation and structuring, contract negotiation, and banking and finance, as well as litigation and arbitration matters internationally. Lawyers in the Riyadh office have served in community positions throughout Riyadh and Saudi Arabia as a whole. For example, since 1996 we have had lawyers acting as general counsel for the National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce and the Saudi Arabia country coordinator for the American Bar Association's Section on International Law and Practice. In addition, the perspective and experience of James A. Baker III, 61st U.S. Secretary of State and 67th U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, and Robert W. Jordan, who recently served as U.S. Ambassador to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, offer our clients additional resources on which to rely in the region. Baker Botts lawyers in Riyadh are frequently called upon to advise U.S. and Saudi companies and to speak on subjects relating to finance and energy in the region. and this. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3067906/ QuoteApril 16 - After months of working below the radar, a huge U.S. legal team hired by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has sprung into action and begun a major counteroffensive against a landmark lawsuit seeking $1 trillion in damages on behalf of the victims of the September 11 terror attacks. THE OPENING DEFENSE SALVO in what promises to be a bruising legal battle was fired last week when a trio of lawyers from Baker Botts, a prestigious Houston-based law firm, filed a motion on behalf of Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz, the Saudi defense minister. The motion attacked the 9-11 lawsuit as a “broadside indictment of Saudi government, religion and culture.” It also argued that, as the third-ranking official of a foreign government, their client is immune from any U.S. legal action and that he should therefore be dismissed from the case altogether. But in laying out their arguments, Sultan’s U.S. lawyers also presented highly detailed new evidence of the Saudi government’s role in funneling millions of dollars to a web of Islamic charities that are widely suspected by U.S. officials of covertly financing the operations of Al Qaeda and other international terrorist groups. Kinda takes away that warm and fuzzy feeling doesn't it? I'd say Mr. Baker has some splainin to do. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #49 December 8, 2006 A leader who sends his troops into a quagmire against the advice of his top generals is not very competent, even if he is "true".Quote You find one out of dozens and that is one you pick. Your credibility is slipping"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likearock 2 #50 December 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteEnrich Halliburton stockholders - success Hardly. Hallibutons stock was trading at around $10.50 per share at the time of the Iraq War. It is currently trading at about $32.80 per share. I wouldn't consider a $22.00 increase in a stocks price over 5 1/2 years a huge success. Good, but not huge. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart2:symbol=hal;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Compare that to Apple Computer over the same time frame. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart1:symbol=aapl;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Glad I dumped my HAL for AAPL in 2004. - You gotta be kidding. A 200% increase over 5 years (over 40% annual yield) is not a great investment. What are you smoking? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 9 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
likearock 2 #50 December 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteEnrich Halliburton stockholders - success Hardly. Hallibutons stock was trading at around $10.50 per share at the time of the Iraq War. It is currently trading at about $32.80 per share. I wouldn't consider a $22.00 increase in a stocks price over 5 1/2 years a huge success. Good, but not huge. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart2:symbol=hal;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Compare that to Apple Computer over the same time frame. http://finance.yahoo.com/charts#chart1:symbol=aapl;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;logscale=on;source=undefined Glad I dumped my HAL for AAPL in 2004. - You gotta be kidding. A 200% increase over 5 years (over 40% annual yield) is not a great investment. What are you smoking? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
