Iraq Surrender Group Report

[rushmc 23]

At least this paper got it right

http://www.nypost.com/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Zipp0 1]

Yeah.... That stinking LIBm James Baker! What does he know anyway???

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[kallend 2,150]

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At least this paper got it right

http://www.nypost.com/

The Bush Doctrine, which you have supported faithfully for years, has proven to be an abysmal failure costing tens of thousands of lives, $400Billion+, loss of traditional allies, and loss of US prestige around the world. It has strengthened nations like Iran and N. Korea. It has made the world's best army look impotent.

More of the same is a recipe for an even worse fiasco than Bush has created to date.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[vortexring 0]

Wonder what planet your administration's on to think any differently?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[billvon 3,120]

"Iraq Surrender Group Report"

Was wondering what the right wing spin on this report would be. Now we know.

[Amazon 7]

We SOOOO need to get you into the fight in Iraq... I am sure you could turn it all around for the USA...Maybe you can get Lush Rimjob and David Savage and Jeff GAnnon from your "real" media to join you... a unit like that would be a great assest to the war effort.

[rushmc 23]

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At least this paper got it right

http://www.nypost.com/

The Bush Doctrine, which you have supported faithfully for years, has proven to be an abysmal failure costing tens of thousands of lives, $400Billion+, loss of traditional allies, and loss of US prestige around the world. It has strengthened nations like Iran and N. Korea. It has made the world's best army look impotent.

More of the same is a recipe for an even worse fiasco than Bush has created to date.

Failure huh,

you are a hoot

you are great on the talking points and misdirecting (and creating) blame. N Korea and Iran were well on the way to being major problems long before Bush came along.

But please, continue to amuze me.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

When you go into a job with the goal of coming out with the media loving you (in Washington anyway) you get a report like this one. Not too surprising...

The only goal of this report was to unite (the people of the us on the idea of pulling out an loosing)

Did you happen to see any of the report by Web of Iowa?

Hard to come by but damed interesting. He spent two weeks outside the green zone over there. He returned with a totally different opinion.

Did you happen to the the part of the news conference where the CNN reporter asked the that "group" why anybody should take them seriously when only a few of them went to Iraq and none, yes none of them ventured outside the green zone.

This was a complete was of time, effort money and emotion. It is that simple

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

>Failure huh . . .

Yep.

Getting Saddam - success
Finding WMD's - failure
Freeing Iraqis from tyranny - failure
"Ending torture chambers, rape rooms and mass graves forever" - failure
Creating a stable democracy in the Middle East - failure
Denying terrorists a training ground - failure
Getting Bin Laden - failure
Eliminating the Taliban - failure
Reducing terrorism worldwide - failure

He's 1 for 9. That's even lower than his approval rating. Time to stop losing.

[rushmc 23]

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>Failure huh . . .

Yep.

Getting Saddam - success
Finding WMD's - failure (I suppose in a narrow view)
Freeing Iraqis from tyranny - failure (Really??)
"Ending torture chambers, rape rooms and mass graves forever" - failure (twisted viewpoint)
Creating a stable democracy in the Middle East - failure (ya, it will happen in a day )
Denying terrorists a training ground - failure (tbey are dying here you know)
Getting Bin Laden - failure (ya, so we should surrender)
Eliminating the Taliban - failure (they have less power and freedom but, if it can't be done in a day forget it)
Reducing terrorism worldwide - failure (a narrow un-verifiable claim)

He's 1 for 9. That's even lower than his approval rating. Time to stop losing.

You should.....

Oh, and true leader lead. they do not wet a finger and follow a wind.....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

Just curious . . . if GWB finally comes out and says he made a mistake and we're pulling out, will you, at that point STILL believe staying is the right thing to do?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 2]

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Oh, and true leader lead. they do not wet a finger and follow a wind.....

More like a stampede, Marc.
And while it may be true that a true leader doesn't always just follow the wind of popularity, it's also true that a true leader can't be so isolated and insulated from the truth that he is clueless to it. And this guy is, or at least has been up to now.

(I will concede this, though: the monkey pics were damn funny.)

[SpeedRacer 1]

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At least this paper got it right

http://www.nypost.com/

I would love to hear your solution.

This optional war has tied up our forces so that we are less able to deal with other issues that might arise. It's also dragged America's name through the mud, reducing our ability to get other countries to cooperate with us.

So what is your solution then?

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Andy9o8 2]

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At least this paper got it right

http://www.nypost.com/

I would love to hear your solution.

This optional war has tied up our forces so that we are less able to deal with other issues that might arise. It's also dragged America's name through the mud, reducing our ability to get other countries to cooperate with us.

So what is your solution then?

Stay the course!
Don't cut and run!
We see the light at the end of the tunnel!
Peace with honor!
Vietnamization! (Oops...I mean....)

[billvon 3,120]

>(I suppose in a narrow view)

In any view. We found no WMD's. Zero, zip, nada, none. Not even the best spinmeister in Washington can make that one a success.

>(Really??)

Really. Iraqis are living in fear of being killed.

>(tbey are dying here you know)

Yeah, so did the 9/11 terrorists. We need fewer of those sorts of deaths, not more of them.

>(ya, so we should surrender)

Nope, we should succeed, instead of continuing down the path to failure.

>(they have less power and freedom but, if it can't be done in a day forget it)

They have a SANCTUARY IN PAKISTAN. They are gaining strength according to our government.

>(a narrow un-verifiable claim)

The CIA and FBI have verified it.

1 in 9. 11%. Like I said, time to start doing a little better.

[rushmc 23]

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Just curious . . . if GWB finally comes out and says he made a mistake and we're pulling out, will you, at that point STILL believe staying is the right thing to do?

You frame a question in a manner that can not be answered but if he says he is pulling out I think he will be making a mistake giving under the media pressure. He did not say and will not say he made a mistake going in (IMO)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Oh, and true leader lead. they do not wet a finger and follow a wind.....

More like a stampede, Marc.
And while it may be true that a true leader doesn't always just follow the wind of popularity, it's also true that a true leader can't be so isolated and insulated from the truth that he is clueless to it. And this guy is, or at least has been up to now.

(I will concede this, though: the monkey pics were damn funny.)

I do not think that he is as isolated as you think. I think that is more a talking point used by the other side.

As for the pics. I don't agree with that tactic even when I agree with the point but you are right, they are funny

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

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Just curious . . . if GWB finally comes out and says he made a mistake and we're pulling out, will you, at that point STILL believe staying is the right thing to do?

You frame a question in a manner that can not be answered but if he says he is pulling out I think he will be making a mistake giving under the media pressure. He did not say and will not say he made a mistake going in (IMO)

At this point, nobody really gives a shit about him saying he made a mistake going in. We just want him to declare victory, if he really must, and get us the hell out.

You can compare it to chess, or you can compare it to poker.
Chess: time to resign the match; you're about to be checkmated. Not stalemated, checkmated.
Poker: time to stop bluffing; it's been called, and our two pair doesn't beat their full boat.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

At least this paper got it right

http://www.nypost.com/

I would love to hear your solution.

This optional war has tied up our forces so that we are less able to deal with other issues that might arise. It's also dragged America's name through the mud, reducing our ability to get other countries to cooperate with us.

So what is your solution then?

The solution?

Win, kill the fuckers. Nearly all the bombings (a stated 98%) are not being done by Iraqis. They are Iranian and Syrians working to destableize the area because they can not survive a functioning democracy on thier border.

So, they stir up the tension between the people there, stand back and watch what happens until it calms down a little and then do it again.

Iraq is not the end over there, it is the beginning. (and I am not talking about another war)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

If you think pulling out is success you have not looked at what is happening

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Just curious . . . if GWB finally comes out and says he made a mistake and we're pulling out, will you, at that point STILL believe staying is the right thing to do?

You frame a question in a manner that can not be answered but if he says he is pulling out I think he will be making a mistake giving under the media pressure. He did not say and will not say he made a mistake going in (IMO)

At this point, nobody really gives a shit about him saying he made a mistake going in. We just want him to declare victory, if he really must, and get us the hell out.

You can compare it to chess, or you can compare it to poker.
Chess: time to resign the match; you're about to be checkmated. Not stalemated, checkmated.
Poker: time to stop bluffing; it's been called, and our two pair doesn't beat their full boat.

If we leave then more US citizens will die here in the US. It is that simple

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

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The solution?

Win, kill the fuckers. Nearly all the bombings (a stated 98%) are not being done by Iraqis. They are Iranian and Syrians working to destableize the area because they can not survive a functioning democracy on thier border.

So, they stir up the tension between the people there, stand back and watch what happens until it calms down a little and then do it again.

Iraq is not the end over there, it is the beginning. (and I am not talking about another war)

We're not going to win!! I'm sorry, but it's time for you to face that reality: it's not going to happen!

As for 98% of bombings being done by non-Iraquis, that's just BS.

"Just the beginning"? That mentality cost us 58,000 US souls in Nam. Remember the anti-war riots back then? They'll happen again.

[wmw999 2,589]

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The solution?

Win, kill the fuckers. Nearly all the bombings (a stated 98%) are not being done by Iraqis

So does that mean that we kill everyone in Iraq who isn't an Iraqi?

Which fuckers do we kill? And how do we know who they are?

The only way to make Iraq peaceful is to have a large and oppressive enough force in there to physically control the entire country. That's a whole lot more people than we have now, and it would take a lot of arbitrary "justice" to keep going. How do we protect America if we're doing so much to protect our vision of what Iraq should become?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SpeedRacer 1]

How do you "WIN" against an insurgency???????


This is not traditional war where you can get all the insurgents to line up together on one big battlefield. These guys can go all over the country & set up bombs, kidnap & shoot people whenever and whereever they like.


So exactly what would "WINNING" look like?

Speed Racer
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[beowulf 1]

I like this one better.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20061207/cm_rcp/captain_obvious_to_the_rescue