Samurai136 0 #1 December 7, 2006 QuoteAbout the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship." "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: 1. From bondage to spiritual faith; 2. From spiritual faith to great courage; 3. From courage to liberty; 4. From liberty to abundance; 5. From abundance to complacency; 6. From complacency to apathy; 7. From apathy to dependence; 8. From dependence back into bondage ." Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota , believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase. The critical point is when people living on government entitlements passes 50% and can control future elections. From that point, the party that promises the most free entitlements wins. Unfortunately, less than 50% of the population will be paying the taxes to support the majority. It won't be long after that the country will be bankrupt. Food for thought. Discuss."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #2 December 7, 2006 We've been around '7' for the last few decades...and sliding towards 8. Bread and circuses... QuoteFor when the plebes discover that that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader -- the barbarians enter Rome. -Robert HeinleinMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #3 December 7, 2006 QuoteWe've been around '7' for the last few decades...and sliding towards 8. Bread and circuses... QuoteFor when the plebes discover that that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader -- the barbarians enter Rome. -Robert Heinlein Nice metaphor - but thats not at all what happened to Roman democracy. The mob could no more vote themselves cut price grain than we could vote ourselves a tax cut. And the Barbarians destroyed the western empire 500 years after the civil wars destroyed democracy in Rome.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #4 December 7, 2006 I'd go with #7 - From apathy to dependence. From talking with people about the current problems with our federal government and national leadership, I get the impression that many seem to think these problems cropped up overnight (or started in Jan. '01). They don't see the current situation in a historical context, that it was able to become what it is as a result of significant events/changes that took place over the last 50 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #5 December 7, 2006 QuoteQuoteWe've been around '7' for the last few decades...and sliding towards 8. Bread and circuses... QuoteFor when the plebes discover that that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader -- the barbarians enter Rome. -Robert Heinlein Nice metaphor - but thats not at all what happened to Roman democracy. The mob could no more vote themselves cut price grain than we could vote ourselves a tax cut. . Ummm - didn't the US vote itself a tax cut in 1980, 1984, 2000 and again in 2004?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #6 December 7, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteWe've been around '7' for the last few decades...and sliding towards 8. Bread and circuses... QuoteFor when the plebes discover that that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader -- the barbarians enter Rome. -Robert Heinlein Nice metaphor - but thats not at all what happened to Roman democracy. The mob could no more vote themselves cut price grain than we could vote ourselves a tax cut. . Ummm - didn't the US vote itself a tax cut in 1980, 1984, 2000 and again in 2004? Through a referendum?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #7 December 7, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWe've been around '7' for the last few decades...and sliding towards 8. Bread and circuses... QuoteFor when the plebes discover that that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader -- the barbarians enter Rome. -Robert Heinlein Nice metaphor - but thats not at all what happened to Roman democracy. The mob could no more vote themselves cut price grain than we could vote ourselves a tax cut. . Ummm - didn't the US vote itself a tax cut in 1980, 1984, 2000 and again in 2004? Through a referendum? By electing candidates that promised tax cuts. The US is a Republic. In 1978 California voted itself a property tax cut by referendum. (the infamous Prop. 13).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #8 December 7, 2006 QuoteBy electing candidates that promised tax cuts. The US is a Republic. QuoteFor when the plebes discover that that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so,Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #9 December 7, 2006 QuoteBy electing candidates that promised tax cuts. The US is a Republic. Indeed. And notice that the federal budget keeps growing and growing as more programs, like the failure that is Medicare, are being pumped up... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 December 7, 2006 Between 6 and 7, and once it hits critical mass - BOOM ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #11 December 7, 2006 QuoteUmmm - didn't the US vote itself a tax cut in 1980, 1984, 2000 and again in 2004? No that is what happened because of all the people who seem to like being trickled down upon... or.. the Son of Tickled down upon by BushCo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
