homeopathy

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Ive seen something even more ridiculous, not about water but re alternative therapy.
therapist are now offering tachyon therapy. look it up, this is no joke!

pachyderm therapy?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[chadkal 0]

I have no idea what the dilution is,.... but I use it each year during cold a flu season and it does work,... I don't use it because it is homeopathic,...I didn't even know that it was until yesterday when I saw that printed on the lable.

--------------------------------------------------
I am a greek midget

[SpeedRacer 1]

Tachyon therapy is good if you have a tribble infestation.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

I don't kow how this fits in to the theory of diluting a substance to make it stronger,...( seems pretty stupid),.... but I have found one homeopathic med. that I really think works. Zicam. I had no idea that it was homeopathic, but I noticed that it did say homeopathic on the lable. I have used this stuff before and it does work.

Zicam contains : Acetaminophen (pain reliever/fever reducer): 1000.0mg. Chlorpheniramine maleate (antihistamine): 4.0mg. Dextromethorphan HBr (cough suppressant): 30.0mg.

So no, it is not homeopathic medicine.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[chadkal 0]

but it does say homeopathic on the label

--------------------------------------------------
I am a greek midget

[SpeedRacer 1]

I see the problem. I was looking at a different Zicam product.

there is the "homeopathic" version, but it isn't actually diluted down to nothing. It is diluted only a bit, but it is still at an effective dose.

This is a copy of a statement from their sales department:


he foundation of homeopathy is the Law of Similars. The theory is basically like cures like...a compound that produces a particular symptom (similar to that produced by the illness)in a healthy person should also facilitate the body's healing processes.

Zincum Gluconicum was approved by the Homoepathic Pharmacopoeia Convention and became a monographed item included in the HPUS in May 1997. Zincum Gluconicum was proven to produce "cold-like" symptoms in healthy individuals.

Zicam has only one active ingredient--zinc gluconate (Zincum Gluconicum). It is true that some homeopathic dilutions are very dilute. The HPUS dictates the maximum strength a compound can be for OTC use. In the case of zinc gluconate, it is a 1X dilution. This means that 1 part of zinc gluconate is diluted with 9 parts water. In Zicam we use a 2X dilution. This takes the above dilution and further dilutes it by adding 1 part of it to 9 parts water. This produces a final 1:100 dilution.

Zicam is a homeopathic remedy manufactured, packaged and distributed in full accordance with the HPUS.

----

so it's only diluted 1/100. not really homeopathic at all. but the homeopathic convention says it is, so there.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[philh 0]

If you read my original post you will see what homeopathic dilution is and why it implies homeopathy is ridculous as a result. Most homeopathic remedies are so diluted they have no chance of containing even 1 molecule of the active ingredient. In the case above the dilution is so small that the critique does not apply.

[chadkal 0]

My only point was to illustrate that there was at least one homeopatic remedy that did work while I will agree with everything that you said about the theory of dilution,(it is absolutely absurd) You also posed the question in an earlier post, to name a homeopathic med. that worked. Zicam is a homeopathic med that does work, now it may not be the norm for homeopathic meds, most of them may be diluted to nothing, but in answer to your question about naming 1 that actually works,.........

Zicam

--------------------------------------------------
I am a greek midget

[philh 0]

Well if Zicam works thats fine, it seems we r in agreement as we both agree the theory of homepathic dilution is ridiculous. By the way has Zicam been assesed via double blind random trials or is that you saing it works for you? they are not the same, the former would be meaningful the latter not.

[SpeedRacer 1]

I think zinc gluconate has been clincally shown to reduce the duration of colds.

But again, zicam has a normal dosage, not one of those kind that are diluted down to nothing.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Lindsey 0]

Well, if you get a hydrofluoric acid burn, one of the best things you can do is to crunch up some tums or other similar calcium-rich substance and mix it with KY jelly for a great topical treatment.

That's not really homeopathic, but it's the closest I can come on short notice....

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[livetofall 0]

Yeha thats if you immmediately know you got hit. If its in dilute, you might not feel it for 15-30 minutes and need to have a calcium shot at it finds its way directly to your bones. I was working in a acid pit at Wacker semicinductor and luckily a sparky had a litmus strip. It had been raining earlier,,easily mistaken for water being its odorless colorless,and does not have immediate noticable damage until too late. I then noticed had a nail in rubber boot...close call.
EDIT: before someone makes a idiotic remark, I was speaking of hydroflouric acid back to lindsey

[Lindsey 0]

Even 15 or 30 minutes later you can try it. I'd even try it first in the ER. It's a periodic culprit of burning hands that don't appear burned. If it doesn't settle down in a little bit, though, I'd give calcium gluconate through an upstream arterial line.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[philh 0]

this is from the manufacturers of zicam web site:

" ZICAM™ uses a patent-pending gel matrix to apply ionic zinc directly to the nasal cavity. Research suggests that ionic zinc fills the grooves on the rhinovirus, thereby blocking the virus's ability to bind with the cells lining the nasal cavity, preventing or interrupting the infection cycle. "

Now notice that is does not obey homeopathy 1st principle like cures like, nor oes it obery homeopathys 2nd principles , the "law of infinitesimals" the level of dilution is only 2x which no one could possibly say represents a homeopathic dilution.
My conclusion Zicam is not a homeopathic medicine. The manufacturers may call it that for whatever marketing reason, but it clearly has nothing to do with homeopathy.

[SpeedRacer 1]

but the "like cures like" thing applies. Didn't they find that zinc at certain doses causes temporary cold-like symptoms?

It seems to me that the root word "homeopathy" implies "like cures like", and doesn't necessarily mean excessive dilutions.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[philh 0]

yes i you stick a large maount of zinc up someones nose it may well cause it to run which could be considered as cold like sympton. But if you read the explanation from the manufacturer yuo will see that it does not follow homeopathic principles.
The word root is homo which means same, so in that sense youare right. But homeopathy was set up initially and is still practiced today as having the principle of infinitesimals at its core
to quote wikipedia
"The most characteristic and controversial principle of homeopathy is that the potency of a remedy can be enhanced (and the side-effects diminished) by dilution, in a procedure known as dynamization or potentization...The dilution factor at each stage is traditionally 1:10 ('D' or 'X' potencies) or 1:100 ('C' potencies). Hahnemann advocated 30C dilutions for most purposes, i.e. dilution by a factor of 10030 = 1060. As Avogadro's number is only 6.02 × 1023 particles/mole, the chance of any molecule of the original substance being present in a 15C solution is small, and it is extremely unlikely that one molecule of the original solution would be present in a 30C dilution. According to this molecular paradigm, any glass of water must be regarded as an extreme dilution of almost any agent you care to mention. Thus, critics argue that by drinking water one receives homeopathic treatment for every imaginable condition.[33][34] Proponents of homeopathy are unable to accept the molecular paradigm as a complete account of life phenomena and therapeutics. They believe that the methodical dilution of a particular substance, beginning with a 10% solution and working downwards, produces a therapeutically active 'remedy', in contrast to regular water which is therapeutically inert. However, in terms of chemistry, a dilution of anything at 30C is identical to water."

[Zenister 0]

Quote

if Chinese medicine worked so well why did they have such a low level of life exectancy until western medicine started to be introduced there. one could ask the same question of Ayurverdic medicine in India.according to Wkipde:

Similar gains have been enjoyed throughout the world. Life expectancy in China was around 35 years at midcentury. At century's close it had risen to around 71 years. Life expectancy in India at midcentury was around 32, by 2000 it had risen to 64 years.

can you say... "living conditions"

Sanitation changes had the MOST effect on life expectancy...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[philh 0]

I certainly wouldnt deny sanitation had a huge effect on life exptancy. But this doesnt exactly support the notion in Chinese medicine that disease is caused by imbalances in the person.

[Lindsey 0]

Quote

I certainly wouldnt deny sanitation had a huge effect on life exptancy. But this doesnt exactly support the notion in Chinese medicine that disease is caused by imbalances in the person.

We've obviously made tremendous advances in medicine. But now we're faced with, for the first time, the notion that our children's life expectancy will be shorter than ours. This is due to obesity. I'm sure that's a different kind of "imbalance in the person" than you're talking about. But it's amazing that we can know as much and have as much medical ability that we do and still not be able to overcome a very basic problem.

We do have some new things on the horizon that might have a pretty big impact here too, though. We shall see.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Jasmin 0]

As a scientist, I try to rationalise and query the logic of just about everything. But on the flip side, I know that there are serious limitations in our ability to understand the universe and everything in (and potentially outside) of it.

Rules only stand until we find an exception to the law or discover a flaw in the logic (not always the same as the evidence) from which a scientific law or principle was dervied.

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."