since when is the Jewish Religon a "race"?

[Squeak 17]

other than from an outdated not internationally recognised internet dictionary, there isd nothing there to counter my ascertion that it's a name we give, that has no biological mening.

As for using Google to source my information, thanks but I'm a little more educated and inteligent than to rely on Google for my worldly knowledge

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[billvon 3,111]

>there isd nothing there to counter my ascertion that it's a name we
>give, that has no biological mening.

You mean other than medical references that different races have different medical issues and are treated differently?

Let me put it this way. If you were a doctor and decided "all this race stuff is hooey" and you prescribed BiDil for a white woman, you would likely discover that your state's medical board disagrees with you.

>As for using Google to source my information, thanks but I'm a little more educated and inteligent . . .

I am sure you are inteligent, but using google can help you find a starting place for learning more about things like the biological differences between races.

[Squeak 17]

Quote

>there isd nothing there to counter my ascertion that it's a name we
>give, that has no biological mening.

You mean other than medical references that different races have different medical issues and are treated differently?

Let me put it this way. If you were a doctor and decided "all this race stuff is hooey" and you prescribed BiDil for a white woman, you would likely discover that your state's medical board disagrees with you.

So to if you prescribed the drug to Anyone with a known sensitivity to it. that still does notthing to to chage the status of Races a a social construct. We as humans like to catagorise things Race is nothing more than one of those word that we use to try and find difference, and to put a certain group apart, we are a Species and taxonimically that's where we stop, Homo sapien not Homo sapien caucasian/negro/Jew/indian
Race is nothing more than another name for ethnic background



One more time

Quote

The term race has many definitions, ranging from a family unit to a species, but in common and medical usage, defining race has meant separating Homo sapiens into three to six groups. This division of Homo sapiens into race taxons started in the 18th century, when the sciences of genetics and evolutionary biology were not yet invented. These disciplines have since shown that human race taxonomy has not scientific basis. Race categories are social constructs, that is, concepts created from prevailing social perceptions without scientific evidence. Despite modern proof that race is arbitrary biological fiction, racial taxons are still used widely in medical teaching, practice, and research.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Andy9o8 2]

After (with an open and undecided mind) reading Bill and Squeak debate this awhile, each making good points, I think I'm leaning toward Squeak's POV – that "race", as the term is most commonly used in contemporary English, is an inaccurate and arcane euphemism for "ethnic background", or if you will, for "ethnic concentrations", i.e., a few characteristics that tend to become concentrated within a particular subset group of people who tend to intra-breed within their subset group.

I've always been uncomfortable with what I view as arbitrary designations of race within the species homo sapiens. Too many grey areas. "Race" for too long has been equated with different "breeds", much the way that distinct breeds exist among domesticated dogs and cats, for example. I think species homo sapiens is much more homogeneous than that.

[billvon 3,111]

>We as humans like to catagorise things Race is nothing more than
> one of those word that we use to try and find difference, and to put
> a certain group apart, we are a Species and taxonimically that's
> where we stop, Homo sapien not Homo sapien
> caucasian/negro/Jew/indian
> Race is nothing more than another name for ethnic background

Species are then broken down into breeds or races. It's just as silly to claim that a toy poodle is exactly the same as a great dane as it is to claim an american eskimo is exactly the same as someone from niger. They have different physical characteristics, characteristics that doctors (among others) must understand when dealing with them.

Race HAS been used for very silly purposes, like proving one race is "better" than another, or undeserving of freedom, or profiling at airports/on roads. It's been used to both deny government services and obtain preferential treatment. People have foolishly assumed that if someone looks different they are different in every other way, which is silly. Solution - draw better conclusions than that.

>Despite modern proof that race is arbitrary biological fiction, racial
> taxons are still used widely in medical teaching, practice, and
> research.

And one more time, this is provably, scientifically wrong. It's the height of PC arrogance to claim that "you can't use the word race because someone might get offended, or think that we're not all one big happy identical family!" We should indeed live with each other in peace without squabbling over mostly-meaningless differences - and that has absolutely nothing to do with the FACT that we differ genetically, that some of us have black skin, or can't break down alcohol very well, or are prone to osteoporosis, or are at greater risk for sickle cell anemia or skin cancer.

When political correctness trumps science, we are walking down a very dangerous road, one that leads to teaching creationism instead of science, abandoning effective treatments because they offend some group, and stifling certain branches of science because of fear of what might be discovered. Political correctness is not worth that.

[Squeak 17]

Quote

>We as humans like to catagorise things Race is nothing more than
> one of those word that we use to try and find difference, and to put
> a certain group apart, we are a Species and taxonimically that's
> where we stop, Homo sapien not Homo sapien
> caucasian/negro/Jew/indian
> Race is nothing more than another name for ethnic background

Species are then broken down into breeds or races. It's just as silly to claim that a toy poodle is exactly the same as a great dane as it is to claim an american eskimo is exactly the same as someone from niger. They have different physical characteristics, characteristics that doctors (among others) must understand when dealing with them.

Race HAS been used for very silly purposes, like proving one race is "better" than another, or undeserving of freedom, or profiling at airports/on roads. It's been used to both deny government services and obtain preferential treatment. People have foolishly assumed that if someone looks different they are different in every other way, which is silly. Solution - draw better conclusions than that.

>Despite modern proof that race is arbitrary biological fiction, racial
> taxons are still used widely in medical teaching, practice, and
> research.

And one more time, this is provably, scientifically wrong. It's the height of PC arrogance to claim that "you can't use the word race because someone might get offended, or think that we're not all one big happy identical family!" We should indeed live with each other in peace without squabbling over mostly-meaningless differences - and that has absolutely nothing to do with the FACT that we differ genetically, that some of us have black skin, or can't break down alcohol very well, or are prone to osteoporosis, or are at greater risk for sickle cell anemia or skin cancer.

When political correctness trumps science, we are walking down a very dangerous road, one that leads to teaching creationism instead of science, abandoning effective treatments because they offend some group, and stifling certain branches of science because of fear of what might be discovered. Political correctness is not worth that.

This has nothing to do with PC, I couldn't care less about PC'ness of race. My point is that just because some people still use the term Race in medical fields does not mean that it has a biological menaing.
Taxonomist (these guys/gals are scientists who specialise in the taxonomic namings of organisms) are the ones that say Race is a socical construct.it has fuck all to do wih PC and EVERYTHING to do with science

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[billvon 3,111]

> My point is that just because some people still use the term Race in
>medical fields does not mean that it has a biological menaing.

Actually, that is exactly what it means.

>Taxonomist (these guys/gals are scientists who specialise in the
>taxonomic namings of organisms) are the ones that say Race is a
>socical construct.

They don't say that. They say it's not a delineation like a species (which it isn't.)

This nonsense about denying race is just that, PC nonsense. What's next? Will we outlaw the idea of biological parents, because no children should be identified by genetic connection to another two human beings? After all, it would make adoptees feel better. "There's no such thing as biological parents! After all, taxonomists don't have a category for them, therefore they don't exist." Families - same thing. Think about how many problems would be solved if someone didn't know that it was their brother who was killed by a gang! Gets sorta silly. eh?

It's tempting to use language to solve our social problems. Orwell outlined this in 1984. If you create a language where subversive thoughts cannot be easily expressed (he called this "newspeak") then there will be no subversives. This is a foolish use of language. We should change our prejudices and ways of thinking rather than try to alter language so that "outlawed" thougths cannot be expressed.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

We should change our prejudices and ways of thinking rather than try to alter language so that "outlawed" thougths cannot be expressed.

You really shouldn't have said that.