Andy9o8 2 #151 November 22, 2006 Back on topic, Bush has twin daughters now aged 24. Too bad they were never subject to the draft, or maybe Daddy might have been just a little bit less of a cowboy about sending other people's children in harm's way to prove to his father that he's his own man. BTW, plenty of female military service personnel have been involuntarily sent to Iraq, and not in some rear area, either. We have a female friend in her late 30's who is in the Reserve. Her unit got activated and she spent most of the next 9 months in the middle of the Sunni Triangle, her base getting mortared almost every night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #152 November 22, 2006 Another slight tangent - As an alternative to this bill, another politician (forget which one; they all seem to run together) recently proposed an "escape clause" - allow servicemen to end their commitement after their current tour of duty was over. This was ostensibly to let people with families see their kids grow up, but would also effectively reduce forces at a time when they are stretched very thin. It would be interesting to see who supported/opposed that, were it brought up for a vote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #153 November 22, 2006 QuoteBack on topic, Bush has twin daughters now aged 24. Too bad they were never subject to the draft, or maybe Daddy might have been just a little bit less of a cowboy about sending other people's children in harm's way to prove to his father that he's his own man. Bush favors the draft? QuoteBTW, plenty of female military service personnel have been involuntarily sent to IraqSo, what you're saying is volunteers went unvoluntarily? Right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #154 November 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteBack on topic, Bush has twin daughters now aged 24. Too bad they were never subject to the draft, or maybe Daddy might have been just a little bit less of a cowboy about sending other people's children in harm's way to prove to his father that he's his own man. Bush favors the draft? QuoteBTW, plenty of female military service personnel have been involuntarily sent to IraqSo, what you're saying is volunteers went unvoluntarily? Right? Sighh. No, to both. What you've just done to my post is akin to mangling an orange in order to produce tomato sauce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #155 November 22, 2006 He's right - you're wrong. They volunteered for the military. Part of the contract is that you go where dot-mil sends you.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #156 November 22, 2006 QuoteI was thinking along the lines of the history of federally run programs, especially open ended ones. Throughout the life of medicare and medicaid, actual costs have consistently and dramatically outpaced forecasted costs. And then there's the quality of service the federal government is known for. If the US goes the universal healthcare route, we can say good bye to the kinds of technological and pharmacutical advances we've enjoyed on a regular basis. Well, the US govt. runs Air Traffic Control, and it's supposedly the best there is, and the Post Office hasn't lost anything of mine in 30 years. I guess those unfortunate people in Sweden, Norway, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Canada etc. with 2nd rate health care have shorter life expectancies and higher infant mortality than the US... Oh, wait, they are all BETTER than the US. Whooda thunkit from all the right wing propaganda?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #157 November 22, 2006 QuoteQuote>If the US goes the universal healthcare route, we can say good bye > to the kinds of technological and pharmacutical advances we've > enjoyed on a regular basis. I know several skydivers who go to Sweden for orthopedic surgery because the care is better, the techniques more advanced and the cost is less. Would suck to have that happen here, eh? But fear not. In a decade or so, we'll all be traveling to China for stem cell therapies that are illegal here, so it won't matter much. Offering the exception to obscure the norm. SSDD Oh sure. I suppose Australia, Austria, Brunei, Canada, CUBA, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK are exceptions too. They all have lower infant mortality than the USA. And here's the list of exceptions that have longer life expectancy than the USA. Japan Hong Kong Iceland Switzerland Australia Sweden Italy Canada Israel France Spain Norway New Zealand Austria Belgium Germany Singapore Cyprus Finland Luxembourg Netherlands UK Greece Ireland... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #158 November 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote>If the US goes the universal healthcare route, we can say good bye > to the kinds of technological and pharmacutical advances we've > enjoyed on a regular basis. I know several skydivers who go to Sweden for orthopedic surgery because the care is better, the techniques more advanced and the cost is less. Would suck to have that happen here, eh? But fear not. In a decade or so, we'll all be traveling to China for stem cell therapies that are illegal here, so it won't matter much. Offering the exception to obscure the norm. SSDD Oh sure. I suppose Australia, Austria, Brunei, Canada, CUBA, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK are exceptions too. They all have lower infant mortality than the USA. And here's the list of exceptions that have longer life expectancy than the USA. Japan Hong Kong Iceland Switzerland Australia Sweden Italy Canada Israel France Spain Norway New Zealand Austria Belgium Germany Singapore Cyprus Finland Luxembourg Netherlands UK Greece Ireland I was talking about technological and pharmacutical advances, not coverage. You know...... research. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #159 November 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>If the US goes the universal healthcare route, we can say good bye > to the kinds of technological and pharmacutical advances we've > enjoyed on a regular basis. I know several skydivers who go to Sweden for orthopedic surgery because the care is better, the techniques more advanced and the cost is less. Would suck to have that happen here, eh? But fear not. In a decade or so, we'll all be traveling to China for stem cell therapies that are illegal here, so it won't matter much. Offering the exception to obscure the norm. SSDD Oh sure. I suppose Australia, Austria, Brunei, Canada, CUBA, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK are exceptions too. They all have lower infant mortality than the USA. And here's the list of exceptions that have longer life expectancy than the USA. Japan Hong Kong Iceland Switzerland Australia Sweden Italy Canada Israel France Spain Norway New Zealand Austria Belgium Germany Singapore Cyprus Finland Luxembourg Netherlands UK Greece Ireland I was talking about technological and pharmacutical advances, not coverage. You know...... research. Sure... I guess those other country's SYSTEMS just make better use of the research than we do. You know..... OUTCOMES.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #160 November 22, 2006 Yeah, I guess I phrased it inartfully when I said "involuntarily". I meant that they didn't volunteer for posting to Iraq per se. But yes, they voluntarily signed on with dot.mil, and yes, that means you go where you're told; so I'll stand corrected on the language. But the real point I'm trying to make is an offshoot Rangel's point - Bush's daughters were of military age when he invaded Iraq; and US servicewomen in Iraq are very much in harm's way on a regular basis. If he knew for sure that those two girls stood a good chance at being sent to the Sunni Triangle if he invaded, and he'd have to look into his wife's worried (angry?) eyes every day until those girls were back home, would he have engaged in exactly the same course? I wonder. If Senators voting on a military-action resolution knew their kids would likely go into combat if they voted yes, would they still vote yes? I wonder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #161 November 22, 2006 Quotewould they still vote yes? I wonder. you mean those congressman from both parties that did? They would definitely vote 'yes' - and then campaign on it, thus exploiting their children's service for political capital. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #162 November 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteI was talking about technological and pharmacutical advances, not coverage. You know...... research. Sure... I guess those other country's SYSTEMS just make better use of the research than we do. You know..... OUTCOMES. Probably so, but completely irrelevant to my point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livetofall 0 #163 November 22, 2006 Yeah..eh..i came to give my 2 cents on the draft... With the millions of illegals here that want amnesty..watch it happen between our current House Senate and weak pres, we should just allow them a break for all males to enlist active duty 4 yrs and get citizenship, I think this should also go for all the freeloaders from russia and asia. Show that they really want to be here in America because they love America. Why should families that have paid taxes and SS lose their sons while these other get the easy path. mexican speaking regiment , russian speaking regiment, chinese speaking regiment, somali, etc. I know about everyone here has got that email about WWII and how people looked at themselves as Americans, not their heritage. Now you cant go anywhere without hearing every language possible, its not America anymore, its the tower of Babel. So you want to be in America? Prove it!www.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #164 November 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteI was talking about technological and pharmacutical advances, not coverage. You know...... research. Sure... I guess those other country's SYSTEMS just make better use of the research than we do. You know..... OUTCOMES. Probably so, but completely irrelevant to my point. But not to mine.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #165 November 26, 2006 QuoteIn per capita terms the US is not the top of the heap. You think the people who GET the money care about anything other than the raw amount? Would you rather get one dollar from 1 million people, or 5 dollars from 10 people? Sure you could claim the 10 people were nicer...But the 1 dollar folks still gave more total, and the total nimber is what does good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #166 November 26, 2006 Quotewe should just allow them a break for all males to enlist active duty 4 yrs and get citizenship, 1. Fair enough. Don't the French already do that - serve a hitch in the Foreign Legion and get French citizenship? 2. Why just males? Quotemexican speaking regiment Pssst...Spanish... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #167 November 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn per capita terms the US is not the top of the heap. You think the people who GET the money care about anything other than the raw amount? Would you rather get one dollar from 1 million people, or 5 dollars from 10 people? Sure you could claim the 10 people were nicer...But the 1 dollar folks still gave more total, and the total nimber is what does good. Great idea, let's tax the Chinese, there are more of them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #168 November 27, 2006 Charlie Rangel is a crazy old man, and I say that as a spiritual, if not actual Democrat. He's old, senile, and just plain full of shit. The notion that politician';s children would EVER be subject to the draft is pure bullshit - and he should know it, because we do. We need look no further than our current Commander in Chief, who evaded the draft by signing up for the Air National Guard at a time when the waiting list was over 3 years long. Funny how he just got in. Hell, I knew a guy who joined the guard in upstate NY inspite of a long waiting list and his old man was little more than an Asst. District Attorney. But the oldest son had served a tour in Vietnam and come home a junkie and the old man decided he'd had enough of THAT bullshit and one son was all they were getting. Fuck Charlie Rangel, I hope he dies soon. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #169 November 27, 2006 QuoteFunny how he just got in. 'Just got in' and in a Champagne unit even, with NO CHANCE of ever seeing any combat...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #170 November 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI was talking about technological and pharmacutical advances, not coverage. You know...... research. Sure... I guess those other country's SYSTEMS just make better use of the research than we do. You know..... OUTCOMES. Probably so, but completely irrelevant to my point. But not to mine. Another red herring? Must be a day ending with "y". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #171 November 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteFunny how he just got in. 'Just got in' and in a Champagne unit even, with NO CHANCE of ever seeing any combat... No chance? What if the NVA had invaded Alabama?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #172 November 27, 2006 QuoteGreat idea, let's tax the Chinese, there are more of them. note the academic's comment considers charity to include the word "tax" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #173 November 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteGreat idea, let's tax the Chinese, there are more of them. note the academic's comment considers charity to include the word "tax" Your bias is showing. At least 5 people wrote about tax in this thread before I did. PS this is not the "charity" thread. This is the "draft" thread. Are you lost?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #174 November 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI was talking about technological and pharmacutical advances, not coverage. You know...... research. Sure... I guess those other country's SYSTEMS just make better use of the research than we do. You know..... OUTCOMES. Probably so, but completely irrelevant to my point. But not to mine. Another red herring? Must be a day ending with "y". Is there a forum rule I missed that says everything has to be about YOUR point? How does YOUR point relate to "Rep. Rangel Seeks to Reinstate the Draft" anyway? Sauce for the goose...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #175 November 28, 2006 QuoteIs there a forum rule I missed that says everything has to be about YOUR point? How does YOUR point relate to "Rep. Rangel Seeks to Reinstate the Draft" anyway? Sauce for the goose... Is there a forum rule I missed that prohibits user from calling bullshit on bullshit posts? I have no problem with thread drift. It's a normal part of casual interactions. Frequently, one thing leads to another and before you know it, a thread on gay marriage has turned into a discussion Newton's Third Law of Motion. In most reasonable discussions, there are obvious connections to these tangents. In other words, the flow of the interaction has continuity. However, some people consistently throw these wild sidebar distractions into a conversation, that might, under the loosest standards, be considered tangential, but that most people would call complete non-sense. Or they twist others words, to put a dishonest onus on the other person. In other words, some people rely heavily on logical fallacies and arguementative stunts, instead of actually challenging the points of a given topic. I'm not saying, people aren't fully entitled to try and use these smarmy (just my POV) tactics. Just don't get bent when they get called on them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
