Rep. Rangel Seeks to Reinstate the Draft

[Lucky... 0]

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Not at all, American liberals are close to Socialism in their ideology.

How is it hard to believe that a liberal wants compulsory military service?

Considering the socialist leaning of the typical American liberal have to do with feeding at the public trough, which is primarily funded by the upper income earners AND NOT with contributing to the overall welfare of society, I'd say implementing a national compulsory service requirement is practically impossible.

We're talking about telling 18 years olds to give up two years of their lives. Can you imagine the civil rights issues that would ensue?

Case in point, compulsory service IS rejected by the conservatives for teh use of their privs. Thank you for doing so.

So what do the elements you pointed out have to do with compulsory service? Are you saying the rich are too busy paying the bills to have time to serve? Problem is, the rich aren;t doing either, so if they would do at least one they would have an argument.

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We're talking about telling 18 years olds to give up two years of their lives. Can you imagine the civil rights issues that would ensue?

If it is a law or added to teh Const, who cares? If it is the law then they can cry all they want.

I think we all see a trend here of which side is really the patriotic one.

[mnealtx 0]

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I see, because I haven't had medical coverage most of my adult life, I'm envious? Perhaps I'm disgusted at the classist nation this is. Perhaps I'm envious of countries that establish medical and social services for ALL people in their country - citizens.

So class privilege disgusts me, not makes me envious.

You can't afford medical insurance, but you can afford to skydive - sounds like a priorities problem to me, not a societal problem.

I don't skydive that often. Futhermore, living to turn my money over to a corporation so they can decide whether I get medical attention or not is not workable for me; I would rather be dead.

Still sounds like a personal priority problem to me - you've said, in effect, that don't want to do what's necessary to get insurance - you just want to whine about society not paying for it for you.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I'm for both. I think Rangel would have a better chance of selling this if he focussed more on the Public Service aspect and less on the draft.-

Rangel doesn't really mean it. He's making a posturing recommendation/speech only. It's a different kind of 'politics of fear'.

Normal politics - create a false position, furiously posture over it, then use that to convince more voters to vote for you next time. "Hey, I'm against the draft, vote for me" or "Hey, I want to make sure the spoiled rich have to serve like Joe-normal so I put it out there - vote for me" or "Hey, I want to make sure the welfare generation has to serve like Joe-apple-pie, so I voted for it - vote for me"

All they have to do is see what their voters tend for and then espouse any one of these speeches to pander it up. In the meantime, nothing happens anyway other than wasted taxpayer money to pay these guys to create PR generating busy work for themselves.

You may be right and if the draft was the only issue, I'd agree with you. What makes this a little more interesting is he has added the Public Service aspect to it. To me that makes it a little more of a serious issue and one which I could support as having a greater societal benefit than just Military service.

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[Lucky... 0]

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Agreed - it's not a new idea, by any means; Heinlein espoused it in "Starship Troopers" what, 50 years ago?

Funny that the only opposition so far has been based on class envy.

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I see, because I haven't had medical coverage most of my adult life, I'm envious? Perhaps I'm disgusted at the classist nation this is. Perhaps I'm envious of countries that establish medical and social services for ALL people in their country - citizens.

So class privilege disgusts me, not makes me envious.

I'm curious as to why you seem to believe medical coverage is a right?

Humanity. So we're more concerned with some corps corporate welfare than the welfare of our own citizens? The Bill of Rights has to do with basic rights, privacy (not written by infered), speech, assembly, religion, gun ownership, counsel when charged, cruel and unuaual treatment, etc...

We are so enamoured with corporate profits that we lose track of the common man, unlike mist other industrialized countries.

[Lucky... 0]

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I'm curious as to why you seem to believe medical coverage is a right?

So, living free from pain is a privelage?

Agreed, as I wrote: humanity.

[steveorino 7]

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I'm curious as to why you seem to believe medical coverage is a right?

So, living free from pain is a privelage?

No, but I distinctly remember working 2-3 jobs when my kids were small so I could pay for Doctor bills. Our country is quickly losing its self help ability and taking on an entitlement personality. I'm not for people being in pain, but I'm not also for people throwing away money on rent. I guess we should give everyone a home.

steveOrino

[mnealtx 0]

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I'm curious as to why you seem to believe medical coverage is a right?

So, living free from pain is a privelage?

No, but I distinctly remember working 2-3 jobs when my kids were small so I could pay for Doctor bills. Our country is quickly losing its self help ability and taking on an entitlement personality. I'm not for people being in pain, but I'm not also for people throwing away money on rent. I guess we should give everyone a home.

Welcome to Gen "E" (for 'entitlement')

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Lucky... 0]

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Am I the only one that remembers how the Dems were trying to claim that a vote for Bush is a vote for the draft (back before the 2004 election)?

So much hypocisy!

Not hypocrisy. So one guy from the Dems is for the draft. Odds are he is trying to establish that the rich don;t want this, so it's more of an 'exclusive club' statement.

I'm not for the draft, but I would be for compulsory service.

I'm for both. I think Rangel would have a better chance of selling this if he focussed more on the Public Service aspect and less on the draft.

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Well, they are one in the same essentially. But who cares what some GD politician thinks, I want substantive change. Dems winning control does 2 things:

1) Get's teh criminals out of there

2) Gives us a CHANCE to better things

So he's still just another politician, let's see teh new Dems diverge from 12 years of corruption, most rearing their ugly heads in the last 6 years.

[StreetScooby 5]

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I just can't fathom what you're saying here.

Gravitymaster rightfully pointed out that my reply to his reply was off topic.

We are all engines of karma

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Am I the only one that remembers how the Dems were trying to claim that a vote for Bush is a vote for the draft (back before the 2004 election)?

So much hypocisy!

Not hypocrisy. So one guy from the Dems is for the draft. Odds are he is trying to establish that the rich don;t want this, so it's more of an 'exclusive club' statement.

I'm not for the draft, but I would be for compulsory service.

I'm for both. I think Rangel would have a better chance of selling this if he focussed more on the Public Service aspect and less on the draft.

-

Well, they are one in the same essentially. But who cares what some GD politician thinks, I want substantive change. Dems winning control does 2 things:

1) Get's teh criminals out of there

2) Gives us a CHANCE to better things

So he's still just another politician, let's see teh new Dems diverge from 12 years of corruption, most rearing their ugly heads in the last 6 years.

This is what it always comes to with you isn't it?

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[steveorino 7]

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Humanity. So we're more concerned with some corps corporate welfare than the welfare of our own citizens? The Bill of Rights has to do with basic rights, privacy (not written by infered), speech, assembly, religion, gun ownership, counsel when charged, cruel and unuaual treatment, etc...

We are so enamoured with corporate profits that we lose track of the common man, unlike mist other industrialized countries.

We're off thread topic, so I apologize, but what did I say that made you think I'm enamoured with corporate profits? I'm for people doing what they need to do without looking for another entitlement. I guess I'm old fashioned.

steveOrino

[Lucky... 0]

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>I'm curious as to why you seem to believe medical coverage is a right?

Because we are not the sort of people who would leave a child to die in the street because she didn't have medical coverage. Our current two-tier system (i.e. ER's don't turn people away) is the direct result of that sort of philosophy.

Medical coverage is not a protected right under the constitution or our laws. It is in _effect_ a protected right because of our compassion. To me, that's not the end of the world.

Medical coverage is not protected, in effect or otherwise. Just because they patch you up doesn't mean you have been covered. The next step is to pursue you for years to collect the costs to patch you up. So this pseudo-humanity for emergency care is followed by years, decades of keeping you in poverty. In 2004 1/2 the US bankruptcies were based upon medical bills, the reacting of the Repub Congress and Pres was to pass the Bankruptcy Law in 2005, making it very difficult to BK.

Humanity is absent here in the US.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Humanity. So we're more concerned with some corps corporate welfare than the welfare of our own citizens? The Bill of Rights has to do with basic rights, privacy (not written by infered), speech, assembly, religion, gun ownership, counsel when charged, cruel and unuaual treatment, etc...

We are so enamoured with corporate profits that we lose track of the common man, unlike mist other industrialized countries.

We're off thread topic, so I apologize, but what did I say that made you think I'm enamoured with corporate profits? I'm for people doing what they need to do without looking for another entitlement. I guess I'm old fashioned.

I don't think so. I think you are for people taking responsibility for their own lives and not relying on some rich guy to pick up the tab for them to be independent.

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[Gravitymaster 0]

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We are so enamoured with corporate profits that we lose track of the common man, unlike mist other industrialized countries.

OFF TOPIC: We have had this debate before. Why do you think the healthcare system in other countries is so great? Have you ever done any research of the German Healthcare system?

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[Lucky... 0]

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I see, because I haven't had medical coverage most of my adult life, I'm envious? Perhaps I'm disgusted at the classist nation this is. Perhaps I'm envious of countries that establish medical and social services for ALL people in their country - citizens.

So class privilege disgusts me, not makes me envious.

You can't afford medical insurance, but you can afford to skydive - sounds like a priorities problem to me, not a societal problem.

I don't skydive that often. Futhermore, living to turn my money over to a corporation so they can decide whether I get medical attention or not is not workable for me; I would rather be dead.

Still sounds like a personal priority problem to me - you've said, in effect, that don't want to do what's necessary to get insurance - you just want to whine about society not paying for it for you.

Again, I don't make a lot of money, if I did I would buy insurance. I refuse to urn over most of my expendible income to some slimy ins co so I can then make co-payments. In this society, I don't really plan on living a long time, so perhaps you are right when you call it a priority. Now that we're on priorities, let's talk about the priorities of this nation to protect the fiscal well-being of corporations rather than the health of its citizens, the ones that make these corporations strong.

[Lucky... 0]

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Our country is quickly losing its self help ability and taking on an entitlement personality.

Come again. What steps are we taking to become this way? I see us going the other way, so how are we losing this so-called, self-help ability?

[Lucky... 0]

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Am I the only one that remembers how the Dems were trying to claim that a vote for Bush is a vote for the draft (back before the 2004 election)?

So much hypocisy!

Not hypocrisy. So one guy from the Dems is for the draft. Odds are he is trying to establish that the rich don;t want this, so it's more of an 'exclusive club' statement.

I'm not for the draft, but I would be for compulsory service.

I'm for both. I think Rangel would have a better chance of selling this if he focussed more on the Public Service aspect and less on the draft.

-

Well, they are one in the same essentially. But who cares what some GD politician thinks, I want substantive change. Dems winning control does 2 things:

1) Get's teh criminals out of there

2) Gives us a CHANCE to better things

So he's still just another politician, let's see teh new Dems diverge from 12 years of corruption, most rearing their ugly heads in the last 6 years.

This is what it always comes to with you isn't it?

-

Thanks for the non-response . Throw me a response here, would ya?

[DaVinci 0]

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I don't skydive that often. Futhermore, living to turn my money over to a corporation so they can decide whether I get medical attention or not is not workable for me; I would rather be dead.

So you would rather be taxed and told what medical treatments you could get, instead of paying a company?

[mnealtx 0]

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Again, I don't make a lot of money, if I did I would buy insurance. I refuse to urn over most of my expendible income to some slimy ins co so I can then make co-payments. In this society, I don't really plan on living a long time, so perhaps you are right when you call it a priority. Now that we're on priorities, let's talk about the priorities of this nation to protect the fiscal well-being of corporations rather than the health of its citizens, the ones that make these corporations strong.

I honestly think you'd be happier living in a Communist country, with your outlook on life.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Lucky... 0]

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Humanity. So we're more concerned with some corps corporate welfare than the welfare of our own citizens? The Bill of Rights has to do with basic rights, privacy (not written by infered), speech, assembly, religion, gun ownership, counsel when charged, cruel and unuaual treatment, etc...

We are so enamoured with corporate profits that we lose track of the common man, unlike mist other industrialized countries.

We're off thread topic, so I apologize, but what did I say that made you think I'm enamoured with corporate profits? I'm for people doing what they need to do without looking for another entitlement. I guess I'm old fashioned.

We mutually swerve off topic, so don't apologize.

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but what did I say that made you think I'm enamoured with corporate profits?

Well, you fear socialized medicine will lead to the demise of the country, but I never hear you denounce huge corporate profits for military contractors. You never, as I;ve read, seem to have a worry about the debt created by the criminals since 1980. Several things, but that's what our country does, we learn to dislike people in lower classes than us.

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I'm for people doing what they need to do without looking for another entitlement.

Most of the rest of the world is more concerned about the health and welafre of their people, I guess I'm just global.

[NCclimber 0]

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Not at all, American liberals are close to Socialism in their ideology.

How is it hard to believe that a liberal wants compulsory military service?

Considering the socialist leaning of the typical American liberal have to do with feeding at the public trough, which is primarily funded by the upper income earners AND NOT with contributing to the overall welfare of society, I'd say implementing a national compulsory service requirement is practically impossible.

We're talking about telling 18 years olds to give up two years of their lives. Can you imagine the civil rights issues that would ensue?

Case in point, compulsory service IS rejected by the conservatives for teh use of their privs. Thank you for doing so.

What are you talking about?

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So what do the elements you pointed out have to do with compulsory service? Are you saying the rich are too busy paying the bills to have time to serve? Problem is, the rich aren;t doing either, so if they would do at least one they would have an argument.

What are you talking about?

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We're talking about telling 18 years olds to give up two years of their lives. Can you imagine the civil rights issues that would ensue?

If it is a law or added to teh Const, who cares? If it is the law then they can cry all they want.

I think we all see a trend here of which side is really the patriotic one.

What are you talking about?

I don't think I make any claims regarding the Conservatives take on this. You seemed to infer a lot.

I really don't see any reason to defend positions you made up for me.

[steveorino 7]

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Our country is quickly losing its self help ability and taking on an entitlement personality.

Come again. What steps are we taking to become this way? I see us going the other way, so how are we losing this so-called, self-help ability?

You're a perfect example. You believe you are entiled to public health care but you don't want to pay premiums. Somebody pays for heath care (such that it is) You just don't want it to be you.

Our country is full of entitlement programs ... they're not hard to miss.

steveOrino

[Lucky... 0]

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We are so enamoured with corporate profits that we lose track of the common man, unlike mist other industrialized countries.

OFF TOPIC: We have had this debate before. Why do you think the healthcare system in other countries is so great? Have you ever done any research of the German Healthcare system?

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Nope, and some of Europe is kinda shaky. I think Canada has a pretty good system. Even if these systems are shaky, at least they try instead of chasing people for $$$$.

[DaVinci 0]

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Would you support a return to the draft?

Tough question.

I think military service would be good for people who do not have a plan after high school. Good for people who need training, or money for college.

However, there are some people in society that no matter what are not going to take an active roll in bettering themselves. Putting them in the Army will only cause problems for the Army while very few of them will reap any benefit.

When I got to my unit, 20 joes were being kicked out for drugs. Half of my group never made it through the first hitch. So, these folks would just get kicked out.

I like the idea of manditory service, but I think it is against the founding principals of the US. For this reason, I would not support a Draft. Those that could use the military for school or training would be better drawn in by better bonuses, and better options.

[Lucky... 0]

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I don't skydive that often. Futhermore, living to turn my money over to a corporation so they can decide whether I get medical attention or not is not workable for me; I would rather be dead.

So you would rather be taxed and told what medical treatments you could get, instead of paying a company?

High taxes don't affect me; get it, poor people don't care about taxes that much, rich folks do.

Didn't you read the 9-0 decision from the SCOTUS 2 years ago?

- HMO's can refuse to pay for medical care ordered by the caregiver.

- You have to sue HMO's in fed court

When a company controls things, we can count on them cutting what they can. When the gov controls things, there is less bias to put costs b4 services.