College Students Ban "Pledge of Allegiance"

[JohnRich 4]

News:

Students at Calif. College ban Pledge of Allegiance

Student leaders at Orange Coast college have touched off a furor by banning the Pledge of Allegiance at their meetings, saying they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and the U.S. government...

The move was lead by three recently elected student trustees, who ran for office wearing revolutionary-style berets and said they do not believe in publicly swearing an oath to the American flag and government at their school...

"Loyalty ought to be something the government earns through performance, not through reciting a pledge," he said...

Source

[Andy9o8 3]

To me, it's a matter of "how you view it". If it's viewed as a loyalty oath (which I suppose at face value it appears to be), then I don't think it should be required. I'm a citizen; my loyalty is presumed, and I don't have to publicly affirm it to make other people comfortable. On the other hand, if you view it more as the equivalent of the national anthem at the beginning of a ballgame (which I think is the healthy way to look at it), then I don't have a real problem with it.

[shropshire 0]

Excuse a Brit butting in here.. But, saying something, anything without believing or meaning it makes it worthless.

There are folks around here that 'Under God' means something but for others, it's just words.

Standing and 'apparently showing respect for a couple of minutes, if not carried out for the other 23 hours and 58 minutes of each and every day, is meaningless.

How we live our lives demonstrates the respect or lack of for our country and fellow citizens - that is the try measue of a [wo]man. IMHO.

PAX

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[JohnRich 4]

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How we live our lives demonstrates the respect or lack of for our country and fellow citizens - that is the try measue of a man.

And kids that are free and prosperous enough to be enjoying a college education certainly ought to respect the nation that allows them to achieve that, and just recite the Pledge. They can insert a brief silent pause during the "under god" part if they wish.

Re: "Loyalty ought to be something the government earns through performance, not through reciting a pledge"...

The fact that they are where they are, should be enough evidence that the country already deserves their respect.

[kallend 2,182]

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How we live our lives demonstrates the respect or lack of for our country and fellow citizens - that is the try measue of a man.

And kids that are free and prosperous enough to be enjoying a college education certainly ought to respect the nation that allows them to achieve that, and just recite the Pledge. They can insert a brief silent pause during the "under god" part if they wish.

Re: "Loyalty ought to be something the government earns through performance, not through reciting a pledge"...

The fact that they are where they are, should be enough evidence that the country already deserves their respect.

You can't mandate respect, and if anyone doesn't have that respect then making them recite a "pledge" won't create it.

I think the onus is on those who want to mandate the pledge to make their case, rather than the reverse.

And why pick on colleges for a mandatory pledge? Why not dropzones? Or Wal-Marts?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[downwardspiral 0]

HAHAHA I say ban it! They obviously don't know what the hell a pledge is.

edited to add: which is not surprising considering its a community college.

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[Lucky... 0]

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Excuse a Brit butting in here.. But, saying something, anything without believing or meaning it makes it worthless.

There are folks around here that 'Under God' means something but for others, it's just words.

Standing and 'apparently showing respect for a couple of minutes, if not carried out for the other 23 hours and 58 minutes of each and every day, is meaningless.

How we live our lives demonstrates the respect or lack of for our country and fellow citizens - that is the try measue of a [wo]man. IMHO.

PAX

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But, saying something, anything without believing or meaning it makes it worthless.

Totally, it s/b the chant of allegiance.

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Standing and 'apparently showing respect for a couple of minutes, if not carried out for the other 23 hours and 58 minutes of each and every day, is meaningless.

Especially when it's compulsory. Hell, do the kids even know what it means? I laughed about the swearing in of the Constitution upholding after I got out of the service. Here are the points:

1) How can you swear to uphold something that you are giving concessions on as you swear to it?

2) How can you swear to uphold something you probably have zero knowledge about? Even criminal defendants are required to understand the charges aginst them, but military enlistees chant this crap for which they have no knowledge? I realize it's as procedural as it gets, but let's have a little reality here.

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So for teh kids to swear to the pledge is BS and shouldn't be practiced, as any dissenters / people who don't volunteer to participate, might be viewed as hostile by the teacher and down-graded for it.

[kelpdiver 2]

student leaders at a community college seems to be slightly on the ironic side. We're talking about a commuter school with absolutely no sense of unity.

The only interesting part is it's located in the GOP stronghold of Orange County. When I lived there, my vote was largely irrelevent, and now that I live in SF, the same is true on the other side.

[Ragnarok 0]

I always felt that I was pledging loyalty to my country - not the government. Under God was open for anyones belief - regardless of denomination.

It is about unity - not segregation......

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[warpedskydiver 0]

I wonder if anyone has ever heard Red Buttons explaining the Pledge of Allegiance.

Maybe some of you should and it will shed more light on it's true meaning.

I wonder how many are willing to listen even though they believe the POA is a crock of shit.

Being Liberal in this country sounds more and more like closed mindedness.

College students are Adults not children and if their reading comprehension is that poor maybe they should just quit school and become a politician.

[Lucky... 0]

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I wonder if anyone has ever heard Red Buttons explaining the Pledge of Allegiance.

Maybe some of you should and it will shed more light on it's true meaning.

I wonder how many are willing to listen even though they believe the POA is a crock of shit.

Being Liberal in this country sounds more and more like closed mindedness.

College students are Adults not children and if their reading comprehension is that poor maybe they should just quit school and become a politician.

It's about being compulsory that makes it crap, not the pledge itself. See, if you just volunteer to recite it, well, if you don't volunteer you will be penalized, but after that it's all voluntary. And for those of you who don't volunteer, well, you're just a bunch of commie liberal, anti-US haters; the rest of us are real Americans forget about all that, 'US based on revolution and dissent crap, that was so 1700 / 1800's.

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Being Liberal in this country sounds more and more like closed mindedness.

Please. The liberal side is about progressiveness. If you're liberal and people want to be gay, fine. If they weant to be striaght, fine. IF they want to call themselves John Smith or Moon Unit, fine. If you want to change the junk between your legs, fine.

OTOH, conservatives have this strict doctrine where things have an order and to fall outside of that order is IMPERMISSABLE. Boys are boys and girls are girls. There are boy jobs and girl jobs; don't cross-over. Jesus is our savior and all other religions are of teh devil.... I could go on, but you get it? How much wiggle room do teh consrvs have? Little to none.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Being Liberal in this country sounds more and more like closed mindedness.

Please. The liberal side is about progressiveness. If you're liberal and people want to be gay, fine. If they weant to be striaght, fine. IF they want to call themselves John Smith or Moon Unit, fine. If you want to change the junk between your legs, fine.

OTOH, conservatives have this strict doctrine where things have an order and to fall outside of that order is IMPERMISSABLE. Boys are boys and girls are girls. There are boy jobs and girl jobs; don't cross-over. Jesus is our savior and all other religions are of teh devil.... I could go on, but you get it? How much wiggle room do teh consrvs have? Little to none.

[kallend 2,182]

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I wonder if anyone has ever heard Red Buttons explaining the Pledge of Allegiance.

Maybe some of you should and it will shed more light on it's true meaning.

I wonder how many are willing to listen even though they believe the POA is a crock of shit.

Being Liberal in this country sounds more and more like closed mindedness.

College students are Adults not children and if their reading comprehension is that poor maybe they should just quit school and become a politician.

Can you explain why the POA should be required at a college student government meeting, but not at, say, a DZ staff meeting, or when your local grocery store opens each morning?

And why do Red Button's views carry any more weight than anyone else's?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[warpedskydiver 0]

They don't, I feel it should not be a requirement as well as there should not be a ban on the POA.

If someone does not want to recite it fine, but don't impose yor beliefs or restrictions on others,and vice versa.

[jakee 1,611]

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unless it violates Natural or Common Law?

And what is Natural or Common Law? Who decides what it is?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[warpedskydiver 0]

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unless it violates Natural or Common Law?

And what is Natural or Common Law? Who decides what it is?

Maybe it would be helpful to read up on that before you make up your mind, or argue against a statement, if you should choose to do so..

There is a wonderful search engine call google that might be helpful to you.

[Lindsey 0]

Please. The liberal side is about progressiveness. If you're liberal and people want to be gay, fine. If they weant to be striaght, fine. IF they want to call themselves John Smith or Moon Unit, fine. If you want to change the junk between your legs, fine.

but you gotta admit, the same people who are so open to all the folks you mention aren't usually nearly so kind to rednecks and "conservatives." It's still a matter of which viewpoints your gonna be open to.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Lucky... 0]

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Being Liberal in this country sounds more and more like closed mindedness.

Please. The liberal side is about progressiveness. If you're liberal and people want to be gay, fine. If they weant to be striaght, fine. IF they want to call themselves John Smith or Moon Unit, fine. If you want to change the junk between your legs, fine.

OTOH, conservatives have this strict doctrine where things have an order and to fall outside of that order is IMPERMISSABLE. Boys are boys and girls are girls. There are boy jobs and girl jobs; don't cross-over. Jesus is our savior and all other religions are of teh devil.... I could go on, but you get it? How much wiggle room do teh consrvs have? Little to none.

Do you know for a fact ALL CONSERVATIVES do not agree that we should all live and let live and that EVERYONE should be free to do as they like unless it violates Natural or Common Law?

I think you're confusing self professed Religous Zealots with those who conservatives.

Don't paint everyone with such a broad paintbrush.

Even true believers in Christianity are lumped together with those who use their own predjudices to put others down.

That is not fair at all.

[Lucky... 0]

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They don't, I feel it should not be a requirement as well as there should not be a ban on the POA.

If someone does not want to recite it fine, but don't impose yor beliefs or restrictions on others,and vice versa.

The problem is that if you have a conservative teacher and the POA is voluntary, there couldbe bias. I guess it could work the other way too.

[Lucky... 0]

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unless it violates Natural or Common Law?

And what is Natural or Common Law? Who decides what it is?

Nature and England, repsectively.

[jakee 1,611]

Quote

Quote

Quote

unless it violates Natural or Common Law?

And what is Natural or Common Law? Who decides what it is?

Maybe it would be helpful to read up on that before you make up your mind, or argue against a statement, if you should choose to do so..

There is a wonderful search engine call google that might be helpful to you.

Cute. There are many different interpretations of natural law floating around - I'm not going to find out what yours is by looking on google.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jcd11235 0]

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Being Liberal in this country sounds more and more like closed mindedness.

I think most people would consider me liberal in our current political climate. I am anything but close minded.

I don't care by what name you call your God, or even if you believe in a God.

I don't care what chemicals you ingest into your body; it's none of my business.

I don't care if you choose to own weapons or not, nor do I care if those weapons are registered.

I don't care who you choose to have consensual sex with, or what the gender of your partner is.

I do not believe we should force women to have children they do not want to have, even if they are pregnant.

I would not consider these close-minded beliefs.

I do not recite the pledge. I don't stand for the national anthem. My allegiance is to a holistic world community, not any single nation in that community. IMO the "my country, right or wrong" philosophy is a load of crap, and serves only to enable a population of sheeple.

BTW, I did serve my country. Had I known then what I know now, however, I would not have made that mistake.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Being Liberal in this country sounds more and more like closed mindedness.

I think most people would consider me liberal in our current political climate. I am anything but close minded.

I don't care by what name you call your God, or even if you believe in a God.

I don't care what chemicals you ingest into your body; it's none of my business.

I don't care if you choose to own weapons or not, nor do I care if those weapons are registered.

I don't care who you choose to have consensual sex with, or what the gender of your partner is.

I do not believe we should force women to have children they do not want to have, even if they are pregnant.

I would not consider these close-minded beliefs.

I do not recite the pledge. I don't stand for the national anthem. My allegiance is to a holistic world community, not any single nation in that community. IMO the "my country, right or wrong" philosophy is a load of crap, and serves only to enable a population of sheeple.

BTW, I did serve my country. Had I known the what I know now, however, I would not have made that mistake.

I can respect all your views ,and agree with more than you would guess.

[Lucky... 0]

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Please. The liberal side is about progressiveness. If you're liberal and people want to be gay, fine. If they weant to be striaght, fine. IF they want to call themselves John Smith or Moon Unit, fine. If you want to change the junk between your legs, fine.

but you gotta admit, the same people who are so open to all the folks you mention aren't usually nearly so kind to rednecks and "conservatives." It's still a matter of which viewpoints your gonna be open to.

linz

Liberals are less open to the people who advocate rigidity, so I guess I agree. Doesn;t it make sense to hold the rigid to their own standard?

[Lindsey 0]

It's not for me to hold anyone, besides myself and my child, to any standard. I don't think it's any more difficult to be open to the rigid than it is to be open to someone who calls herself Moon Unit....even though I may not agree with many of their viewpoints.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail