Gravitymaster 0 #1 November 10, 2006 Rip them out Last Updated: 12:01am BST 14/10/2006 Traffic lights are an unnecessary evil, says Martin Cassini. We should let human nature take its competent course instead and cut down on stress and pollution 'Why stop at traffic lights? Once you've seen one you've seen them all." An old joke, but why should we stop if it's safe to go? Observe a junction where the lights are out of action: no congestion. As soon as the lights are "working" again, the jams are back. We complain about traffic, but could it be traffic controls that are the problem? Blinking lights: are traffic lights really necessary? Before regulations existed, all road-users had equal rights under common law. At junctions, people took it in turns to proceed. Then, in 1929, main road priority imposed inferior rights on minor roads and pedestrians. Main roads became dangerous to cross. To interrupt traffic streams, police on point duty appeared, then lights. A response to self-inflicted problems, traffic controls developed piecemeal, with no objective testing. The rationale for lights is safety, but the Transport Research Laboratory says: "It is a myth that signals guarantee safety." The Department for Transport says: "Traffic lights should be avoided." The TRL asks: "Why traffic signals when mini-roundabouts work better?" The vice-chairman of TfL, Dave Wetzel, has an answer: "Councils pay for mini-roundabouts; we pay for lights." So the proliferation of lights, in London anyway, is a planning accident. Traffic lights are inefficient: they make us wait at red even when no one is using the green. Time and again they interrupt our progress, often needlessly. Rooted in a misreading of human psychology, they override common sense. Busy cities already rely on universal cooperation; we don't have lights for pedestrians on pavements, yet even when they are packed with shoppers, everybody gets along. Traffic controls outlaw discretion, generate stress and provoke aggression. What happens when controls are absent? Left to its own devices at junctions where the lights are out of action, traffic disperses without incident or delay. Free of vexatious rules, we approach junctions slowly and filter. A London cabbie says: "You've just got to be a bit more careful, that's all." In Jersey, this unregimented "system" is called filter-in-turn. It allows courtesy to flourish and traffic to flow. Pedestrians breathe cleaner air and are seen as fellow road-users rather than obstacles in the way of the next light. Filter-in-turn would cure the interminable delays endured by minor-road traffic, and transform traffic flow in cities. Mini-roundabouts are not needed. A dotted line across each road where it enters a junction is enough. By all means introduce a programme of re-education. Phase in the advanced driving test to raise standards and help drivers meet the challenge. Use psychological traffic calming measures such as raised cobbles. Enforce the rule that drivers should use the nearside lane unless overtaking. Filter-in-turn has never been tested. A Brent council traffic engineer agreed to a monitored trial, but TfL, the controlling authority, refused. In Drachten in Holland, "shared space" pioneer Hans Monderman removed traffic lights and signs. Streets and pavements were levelled and cobbled, street activity encouraged. Accidents, congestion and journey times fell, and now road-users smile. Shared space relies on interaction and drivers behaving well - which, in the absence of controls, they do. Given responsibility, they exercise meaningful self-control. Monderman walks into the road without looking, knowing that drivers, undistracted by lights, are watching the road. UK policymakers are obsessed with segregating traffic. But it could be integrated, especially if vehicles were electric, which would reduce noise as well as air pollution. City centres and no-go zones could become civilised havens in which even blind people could move safely. The same is true of other forms of traffic control. In Montana, USA, scrapping speed limits brought a 7mph drop in average speeds and a 30 per cent reduction in accidents. If policymakers harnessed human nature instead of hampering it, they might find that most of our congestion and road rage problems would disappear. Given the benefits of self-regulation, what do our highly-paid policymakers propose? Transport minister Douglas Alexander: "Road charging." Head of the Highways Agency, Derek Turner: "In-car speed limiters." In other words, more expensive technology to hamper human nature and expand the control industry. Imperial College reports that air pollution in London exceeds all environmental and health guidelines - 4x4 drivers are demonised, but 4x4 emissions are insignificant compared with avoidable emissions produced by traffic controls. It has been suggested that vehicle emissions cause 10 times as many deaths as accidents. Mandatory lights, permanent bus lanes, motorbikes banned from bus lanes, vicious parking controls, premature congestion charging, one-way systems that make you go via XYZ to get from A to B... when we're all driving electric cars, will we still be subject to all the oppressive regulation currently in force? Having devised these obstacles in a bid to drive us on to public transport - where last year on the London Underground there were 2,011 violent incidents against the public - the guardians of our welfare are raising fares to cut overcrowding. The very cities that advocate use of public transport also make their diesel buses wait at red. It's for the experts to prove controls necessary. Certainly traffic volume is a problem. People should try other ways to travel, and government should set a target date for phasing out petrol/diesel vehicles. But controls make volume worse. Dam a river and it floods. Block traffic flow and traffic jams. People like to complain about cyclists ignoring traffic lights, but cyclists are simply filtering, like pedestrians on wheels. Instead of being held in limbo by the tyranny of mandatory traffic lights, all road-users - on foot or on wheels - should be free to exercise intelligent discretion, and filter in turn. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Best argument I've ever heard for getting rid of this evil machine that has plagued modern society. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #2 November 10, 2006 Ironic you post this..... some beotch just totalled my car about 3 hiurs ago by running a red light.... unfortunately she lived . No one hurt and her reply after I told her she ran the light: Prove it. And that was in front of the cop. She is a 26YO hottie and the cops were licking her ass, so I will probably get a ticket in the mail. Also, her insurance co is the same as mine, so if I sue I will be suing my ins co and it will fuck me eventually. Bizzare thing is that no one stopped and it was rush hour. The intersection was full of cars, I mean full and backed up, yet no one stopped. A couple people asked if we were alright, but it was a bad accident, 2 totalled cars, and no one stopped...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #3 November 10, 2006 Sheeeee-it!! Glad you're OK. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #4 November 10, 2006 QuoteSheeeee-it!! Glad you're OK. - Thx.... airbags are insane things. I didn't need mine, as it was a glancing blow plus I had the death grip on that wheel, but she needed hers are her impact was dead-on and she didn't swerve or get turned from the impact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,129 #5 November 10, 2006 So you're finally coming around to my way of thinking www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1832307#1832307 www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1480293#1480293 www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2249865#2249865 www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1832305#1832305 www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1480643#1480643... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #6 November 10, 2006 Because of the rudeness of many people in today's society, especially when it comes to lefthand turn lanes[ people who run these lights really mess up traffic timing] I suggest that lefthand turn lanes be controlled by a gate that comes up out of the road when the light turns yellow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #7 November 10, 2006 QuoteBecause of the rudeness of many people in today's society, especially when it comes to lefthand turn lanes[ people who run these lights really mess up traffic timing] I suggest that lefthand turn lanes be controlled by a gate that comes up out of the road when the light turns yellow. Most people at lefthand turn lanes are sitting waiting for light-runners going thru to clear. Furthermore, if the gate comes up on yellow, they will be stranded out there in the middle of the intersection blocking the intersecting trafic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #8 November 10, 2006 Finally, I'm not alone. I've been telling my friends and family members for years that traffic lights cause congestion, increased fuel consumption/pollution, and driver stress. Of course, they all laugh at me. Drivers would spend less time on the roads, thereby reducing congestion and making commutes safer. There is NEVER a long wait at intersections with blinking lights. Unfortunately, my city's solution to ANY traffic problem is the addition of another stop sign or traffic light. Dumb. PS. Lucky: You need a mobile DVR and lipstick cameras in your car. I've had mine wired up and recording for the last six months and love it.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,092 #9 November 10, 2006 Not disagreeing with the point of the article, but this: > Left to its own devices at junctions where the lights are out of >action, traffic disperses without incident or delay. is completely untrue, at least around here. Failed traffic lights create epic traffic jams on the secondary roads. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #10 November 10, 2006 QuoteThere is NEVER a long wait at intersections with blinking lights. Maybe that's because intersections with blinking lights typically have low traffic counts. Lucky, Sorry to hear about your accident and the lack of response. Good luck on sorting it out. I doubt alternatives light traffic circles would work at busy interchanges. One factor that make circles even more unworkable is the number of crappy drivers out there. Anyone else get pissed when they're on an on-ramp that has its own lane (no merge needed) and the fool in front comes to a complete stop, while looking to get over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #11 November 10, 2006 QuoteNot disagreeing with the point of the article, but this: > Left to its own devices at junctions where the lights are out of >action, traffic disperses without incident or delay. is completely untrue, at least around here. Failed traffic lights create epic traffic jams on the secondary roads. Gotta agree with you to a degree. I think it depends on how congested that area of town already is. I live in a small town and around here when a traffic light goes down there is increased traffic congestion initially. I think probably because people are unsure what other drivers are going to do when they approach an uncontrolled intersection. However eventually people adapt and traffic seems to move quite well. That is until the light gets repaired then it's back to sitting at a red light with no traffic coming in either direction. I remember going to Jamaica a few years back and being impressed with how the traffic seemed to have a sort of rhythm to it. If someone was pulled over to the side of the road, the traffic seemed to just adjust and flow around the vehicle. Nobody seemed to get upset the way they do in many areas of the US. No signs of road rage, just adjust the flow. Perhaps the need for traffic lights says something about our culture. Perhaps it's the precieved need for govt. intervention to solve problems for us. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dbattman 0 #12 November 10, 2006 That would be just like Georgetown. Not a single stop sign in the whole city. Any traffic lights had the bulbs busted out of them. Total organized chaos, a mix of defensive and 'mine are bigger- out of my way' driving. Suprisingly few dented cars on the road. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #13 November 10, 2006 QuoteThat would be just like Georgetown. Not a single stop sign in the whole city. Any traffic lights had the bulbs busted out of them. Total organized chaos, a mix of defensive and 'mine are bigger- out of my way' driving. Suprisingly few dented cars on the road. I think when people become accustomed to driving without traffic lights, that their whole attitude towards driving is different. They develop a greater sense of cooperation with others in order to arrive at their planned destination and they realize that overly aggressiveness only serves to create larger problems like traffic jams. Traffic lights are nothing but govt. intervention into our lives. - - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #14 November 10, 2006 QuotePS. Lucky: You need a mobile DVR and lipstick cameras in your car. I've had mine wired up and recording for the last six months and love it. What's that? A camera that records forward? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #16 November 10, 2006 QuoteQuotePS. Lucky: You need a mobile DVR and lipstick cameras in your car. I've had mine wired up and recording for the last six months and love it. What's that? A camera that records forward? Yep. At least it could have proven yo didn't run the light. Sad when you feel you have to document everything you do in life because someone might be standing there to falsely accuse you of something isn't it? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #17 November 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotePS. Lucky: You need a mobile DVR and lipstick cameras in your car. I've had mine wired up and recording for the last six months and love it. What's that? A camera that records forward? Yep. At least it could have proven yo didn't run the light. Sad when you feel you have to document everything you do in life because someone might be standing there to falsely accuse you of something isn't it? - The question isn't whethr I ran the light, the questions are: 1) Did she run the light? 2) Did I turn in front of her as she legally entered the intersection? One ofthe 2 are correct and as she said, Prove it. People who talk like that are saying: "I know I did, but I will get away with it because you can't prove it." If you were on a jury and you heard a tape recording of that statement, I bet the average person would think, 'guilt.' I just checked with the court and they said it's 35 f/n bucks, but they can do a check and get me a picture of her from the photo ticket. QuoteSad when you feel you have to document everything you do in life because someone might be standing there to falsely accuse you of something isn't it? Actually she's not accusing, she's running from it. She never once had an issue with there being no statements given. I was the one wanting to get evidence collected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davedlg 0 #18 November 10, 2006 Quote"Traffic lights should be avoided." The TRL asks: "Why traffic signals when mini-roundabouts work better?" Amen. I have worked as a traffic engineer. Traffic lights are notoriouslly dangerous and inefficient. Putting a signal on a high speed roadway is a recipie for very serious accidents. Roundabouts are more efficient in almost every aspect. I really don't understand why we use the traffic signal as the cure all solution in the US. Seems like every other country in the world has the roundabout thing figured out...why can't we? Another thing that really pisses me off...the nonpermissive left turn arrow. You know the one where you are sitting there waiting to turn left, no traffic in sight, but you can't turn because of that damn red left turn arrow. Those are WAY overused in typical suburbia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #19 November 10, 2006 QuoteMost people at lefthand turn lanes are sitting waiting for light-runners going thru to clear. Furthermore, if the gate comes up on yellow, they will be stranded out there in the middle of the intersection blocking the intersecting trafic. If they had already proceeded into the intersection, the gate would be behind them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #20 November 10, 2006 You guys are all nutz. I hate traffic circles with a passionate passion. I hate them!!! No fucking rules (I mean in reality, not technically); everybody cutting each other off; balls to the wall; constant close calls. Road rage in the round. An accident waiting to happen. Talk about the legacy of Satan. No soup for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #21 November 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteMost people at lefthand turn lanes are sitting waiting for light-runners going thru to clear. Furthermore, if the gate comes up on yellow, they will be stranded out there in the middle of the intersection blocking the intersecting trafic. If they had already proceeded into the intersection, the gate would be behind them. That would probably cause more shit that good, altho I see your point for need. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #22 November 10, 2006 Here's the surprise from hell, she was driving the same car in Scottsadale on January 28, ran a light, caught by the photo camera. I knew it was either speeding or light-running by the site, so I went to the court to get an abstract of the issue and it was running a light. Weird thing is that she was doing 39 in a 45. Who runs a red light below the limit? You speed up so you can beat the red. I think she just drifts around with no real understanding of WTF she is doing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites