Would You Enjoy Being Called a Nazi?

[NCclimber 0]

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By nationalism, I mean a common feeling that one is superior to others or should have authority over others due to their nationality. For example Hitler felt that German's were inherently superior to other peoples, just because they were German.

I would consider that extreme nationalism.

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When people think that their nationality makes them somehow superior to others, that can be a dangerous thing.

It can be a dangerous thing, but I think most people who live in relatively healthy countries, especially people with ancestral roots, they have a deep sense on national pride and feel their country is better than others.

Prior to 9/11 and more so before the end of the Cold War, nationalism was very much a part of the American zeitgeist.

I could be wrong, but since 9/11, when this country became so divided, the concept of nationalism has taken on a more negative meaning.

[rs2kmk5 0]

Would not bother me whether meant in jest or malice - I believe in taking people as you find them, and live/work in a multi cultural society whether I like it or not thats the way it is...

Just cos I have a physically large presence, and a skinhead does not make me a nazi even if my outward appearance perhaps portrays that.

But having said that I dont have any swastika tattoo's

Live's too short to worry bout what most other people think of you surely? It's got to be what you think of yourself that counts for more...

Out of 10,000 feet of fall, always remember that the last half inch hurts the most — Captain Charles W. Purcell, 1932

[billvon 3,120]

>Prior to 9/11 and more so before the end of the Cold War,
>nationalism was very much a part of the American zeitgeist.

Good example. During that time, there was some very extreme nationalism, embodied by McCarthy and his cohorts. I think it's pretty widely agreed that his persecution of political opponents by labeling them "communist subversives" was a bad thing that did a lot of harm to the country.

So even then there were extremes of nationalism that were bad for the US. The example today would be the claim that war critics are "enabling the terrorists" amd those who claim that the US is a beacon of democracy that all other countries try to emulate but fail to some degree.

> they have a deep sense on national pride and feel their country is better than others.

I don't think most people think their country is "better" than others - just that it's good. I think we have a pretty good 4-way team and have accomplished a lot; doesn't mean I think we're better than Airspeed.

[jcd11235 0]

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It can be a dangerous thing, but I think most people who live in relatively healthy countries, especially people with ancestral roots, they have a deep sense on national pride and feel their country is better than others.

Prior to 9/11 and more so before the end of the Cold War, nationalism was very much a part of the American zeitgeist.

I could be wrong, but since 9/11, when this country became so divided, the concept of nationalism has taken on a more negative meaning.

I think there is a difference between preferring to live in one country over another, and feeling that one is superior because of the country in which he lives.

I would think nationalism would have had very negative connotations since WWII.

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[jenfly00 0]

You redefine my statement, make it a personal attack and take offense ...not my problem.

Politically, you support those who have moved our country a couple of giant steps toward fascism. Dude, I don't know you from Adam. I do, however, greatly resent those who have harmed my country ...and those that support them.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[sundevil777 102]

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nazi = extreme nationalism + socialism

fascist = extreme nationalism + capitalism

I just wish people would use the terms in the right context. It makes no sense to me when someone on the right is referred to as a nazi, or someone on the left is called a fascist.

Quite wrong:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Fascism There are a few different dictionary sources on that site.

Fascism
1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2. (sometimes initial capital letter) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3. (initial capital letter) a fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.
[Origin: 1915–20; < It fascismo, equiv. to fasc(io) bundle, political group (see fasces) + -ismo -ism]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Nazi
–noun
1. a member of the National Socialist German Workers' party of Germany, which in 1933, under Adolf Hitler, seized political control of the country, suppressing all opposition and establishing a dictatorship over all cultural, economic, and political activities of the people, and promulgated belief in the supremacy of Hitler as Führer, aggressive anti-Semitism, the natural supremacy of the German people, and the establishment of Germany by superior force as a dominant world power. The party was officially abolished in 1945 at the conclusion of World War II.
2. (often lowercase) a person elsewhere who holds similar views.
3. Sometimes Offensive. (often lowercase) a person who is fanatically dedicated to or seeks to control a specified activity, practice, etc.: a jazz nazi who disdains other forms of music; tobacco nazis trying to ban smoking.
–adjective
4. of or pertaining to the Nazis.
[Origin: 1925–30; < G Nazi(ionalsozialist) National Socialist]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Nazism:
The ideology and practice of the Nazis, especially the policy of racist nationalism, national expansion, and state control of the economy.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jcd11235 0]

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nazi = extreme nationalism + socialism

fascist = extreme nationalism + capitalism

I just wish people would use the terms in the right context. It makes no sense to me when someone on the right is referred to as a nazi, or someone on the left is called a fascist.

Quite wrong

from Wikipedia:

"Fascism is a radical political ideology that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, socialism and anti-liberalism."

The Nazis were formally the Nationalist Socialists.

I oversimplified, perhaps, to make the point that fascism was extreme rightward, while naziism was extreme leftward. It wasn't the economics that was bad, it was the EXTREME NATIONALISM.

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[nathaniel 0]

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It makes no sense to me...right...left

There's a problem with trying to pin people down on a number line like that. Notwithstanding the mathematical problems with measure theory (which should immediately disqualify any attempt to place people or parties on a spectrum), it seems every 5 to 10 years we get a different set of things that are somehow supposed to perpetually and incontrovertably represent "left" and "right". Until they morph into a new set of meanings.

It's positively Orwellian.

As I understand it, the terms originally referred to loose collections of people who sat on the left and right of the French Parliament in the 18th Century. The terms, certainly as used on this forum, but IMO just about everywhere else, have no value.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[sundevil777 102]

Wikipedia is a crappy source.

Yes, the Nazis political party was called National Socialism. North Korea is also officially self named the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, but I wouldn't be so quick to conclude from their name that they are democratic.

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It wasn't the economics that was bad, it was the EXTREME NATIONALISM.

Nationalism doesn't necessarily imply anything other than way too much pride. That part of the definition doesn't include mass murder.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jcd11235 0]

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Wikipedia is a crappy source.

Wikipedia is a decent encyclopedia type source. It is not a scolarly journal. It does have the benefit of usually being labeled as being in dispute when an entry has a bias.

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Yes, the Nazis political party was called National Socialism. North Korea is also officially self named the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, but I wouldn't be so quick to conclude from their name that they are democratic.

Good point. Incidentally, the exact same observation could be made about Communists compared to communists.

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It wasn't the economics that was bad, it was the EXTREME NATIONALISM.

Nationalism doesn't necessarily imply anything other than way too much pride. That part of the definition doesn't include mass murder.

Nor does the definition of a car include a CD player. However, many cars have them.

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[DaVinci 0]

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from Wikipedia

A good number of teachers do not allow the use of wikipedia for your info.

Even the creator of the site says that

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Speaking at a conference at the University of Pennsylvania on Friday called “The Hyperlinked Society,” Mr. Wales said that he gets about 10 e-mail messages a week from students who complain that Wikipedia has gotten them into academic hot water. “They say, ‘Please help me. I got an F on my paper because I cited Wikipedia’” and the information turned out to be wrong, he says. But he said he has no sympathy for their plight, noting that he thinks to himself: “For God sake, you’re in college; don’t cite the encyclopedia.”

http://chronicle.com/wiredcampus/article/1328/wikipedia-founder-discourages-academic-use-of-his-creation

[sundevil777 102]

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Nor does the definition of a car include a CD player. However, many cars have them.

That is a really crappy analogy.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jcd11235 0]

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from Wikipedia

A good number of teachers do not allow the use of wikipedia for your info.

Even the creator of the site says that

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Speaking at a conference at the University of Pennsylvania on Friday called “The Hyperlinked Society,” Mr. Wales said that he gets about 10 e-mail messages a week from students who complain that Wikipedia has gotten them into academic hot water. “They say, ‘Please help me. I got an F on my paper because I cited Wikipedia’” and the information turned out to be wrong, he says. But he said he has no sympathy for their plight, noting that he thinks to himself: “For God sake, you’re in college; don’t cite the encyclopedia.”

http://chronicle.com/wiredcampus/article/1328/wikipedia-founder-discourages-academic-use-of-his-creation

Since when has SC been held to university standards?

Wikipedia is not a very good source for many purposes. For other things, it is very good for a basic overview, like any other encyclopedia.

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[jcd11235 0]

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Nor does the definition of a car include a CD player. However, many cars have them.

That is a really crappy analogy.

Okay. How about:

You are confusing potential actions with defining characteristics.

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[sundevil777 102]

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Nor does the definition of a car include a CD player. However, many cars have them.

That is a really crappy analogy.

Okay. How about:

You are confusing potential actions with defining characteristics.

You're the one confusing an equal sign with potential actions.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Casurf1978 0]

For me Nazism is very similar to Fascism, what distinguishes it from the latter is the obsession with racial theories of superiority. I wouldn't classify Nazism as left wing either. Hitler sent a few of them and socialist to the camps in 1934.

[Amazon 7]

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For me Nazism is very similar to Fascism, what distinguishes it from the latter is the obsession with racial theories of superiority. I wouldn't classify Nazism as left wing either. Hitler sent a few of them and socialist to the camps in 1934.

Adolf and Goebbls have hundreds of quotations blaming much of what was wrong with their country on "liberals".. it was theri mantra.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Bush_Hitler.html

In Hitlers first radio speech after becoming Chancellor on January 30, 1933, he pledged [this is a direct quote from that address] "to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation" and invoked Gods blessing on the German government. (Hitler was a fervent Christian until his egomania superceded faith in a "higher power" - a fact too many have either forgotten or never knew, thanks to sanitized school history books). But, the Fuhrer soon proved he had no intention of being a uniter. The Nazis' battle cry throughout their campaign had been "down with the liberals!" Once in office, Hitler made "liberals" (a mass group into which he lumped social democrats, gays, Jews, and any threat to Hitler's model of Christian society) his sworn enemies.

[SpeedRacer 1]

There's some debate about Hitler's true devotion to Christianity.

Early in his campaigning he did occasionally throw in a few lines about God being on "our side" etc., but you don't see it in his later speeches after he came to power. And the guy pretty much never even went to church. Church services are held Sunday morning, and Hitler seldom even got out of bed before 10 or 11 AM.

edited to add: obviously whatever he may have believed, a person like Hitler is not TRULY devoted to Christianity.

However I should point out that another megalomaniac named Osama bin Laden at least BELIEVES he is TRULY DEVOTED to Islam, even though he believes a twisted version of it.

Whereas it is questionable that Hitler framed his own madness in a religious context.

He was a nationalist racist. For example, he hated the Jews not for their religion, but for their race.

Speed Racer
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[Amazon 7]

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There's some debate about Hitler's true devotion to Christianity.

There are a lot of people who do go to church on sunday...and claim to be christians..... yet certainly do not follow anything that resembles anything that christ actually taught.

[SpeedRacer 1]

true.

Speed Racer
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[DaVinci 0]

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Adolf and Goebbls have hundreds of quotations blaming much of what was wrong with their country on "liberals".. it was theri mantra

Hitler was also loony. He also claimed that the Aryans were superior/Jews were evil...Just cause he said it, do you think that makes it true? I don't, I think he was a lunatic not really worthy of give any credence too.

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There are a lot of people who do go to church on sunday...and claim to be christians..... yet certainly do not follow anything that resembles anything that christ actually taught

Which is why I don't go to church...The only place filled with more people that say one thing and do another is DC.

[DaVinci 0]

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Since when has SC been held to university standards?

You don't have to use good sources, but it hurts your cause to use crappy one IMO.

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Wikipedia is not a very good source for many purposes. For other things, it is very good for a basic overview, like any other encyclopedia.

Right, but we were taking about a definition, not an overview. I glance at Wikipedia when doing papers for school, but only to get an idea, or look for a link to a better source. Every Instructor for the last year has told me that Wikipedia is not to be used a reference since it can be edited by anyone to say anything they want.

[NCclimber 0]

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>Prior to 9/11 and more so before the end of the Cold War,
>nationalism was very much a part of the American zeitgeist.

Good example. During that time, there was some very extreme nationalism, embodied by McCarthy and his cohorts. I think it's pretty widely agreed that his persecution of political opponents by labeling them "communist subversives" was a bad thing that did a lot of harm to the country.

So even then there were extremes of nationalism that were bad for the US. The example today would be the claim that war critics are "enabling the terrorists" amd those who claim that the US is a beacon of democracy that all other countries try to emulate but fail to some degree.

It really is annoying when people consistently display an intent of MISSING THE POINT!!!

Using a brief portion of a 200 year history, an extremely unpleasant portion, to try and prove the opposite of my point is lame. Classic strawman?
Intellectually dishonest? Who is to say?

In WWII over 9 million Americans volunteered for military service. Was this extreme nationalism? Arguable, YES! Was is considered bad?

On a much more benign level, when we beat the Russians in hockey, in the 1980 Winter Olympics, was the sentiment not "WE ARE BETTER THAN YOU! OUR COLLEGE GUYS BEAT YOUR BEST."

I don't recall anyone saying "But they played a fine game. Afterall, it's just sports".

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> they have a deep sense on national pride and feel their country is better than others.
I don't think most people think their country is "better" than others

So you don't think the USA is any better than Somalia, Sierra Leon or Sudan? How about Bangladesh? Are we all equal, just different?

[Andy9o8 2]

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Hitler was also loony. .... he was a lunatic not really worthy of give any credence too.

I disagree with the "accepted wisdom" that Hitler was a madman, and I think it's a dangerous way of thinking. That's because with that analysis it's easy to dismiss genocidal crimes as merely the product of one mentally ill person's aberrant behavior – rather than what it actually is – an opportunistic manifestation of the basest aspect of human nature. The consequence of ascribing to the "madman" theory is that we fail to be sufficiently vigilant for the truly dangerous charismatic leaders, and thus, all too often, in failing to recognize them for what they are (until too late), we fail to prevent their crimes.

I remember Adi Amin and Pol Pot being described the same way; and even today, people are calling Kim Jong Il a "madman". No he's not. His evil is the product of a rationally calculating mind – and that's what makes it truly dangerous.

Learn from history, people.

[NCclimber 0]

Speaking of Wikipedia:

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Civic nationalism (or civil nationalism) is the form of nationalism in which the state derives political legitimacy from the active participation of its citizenry, from the degree to which it represents the "will of the people". It is often seen as originating with Jean-Jacques Rousseau and especially the social contract theories which take their name from his 1762 book The Social Contract. Civic nationalism lies within the traditions of rationalism and liberalism, but as a form of nationalism it is contrasted with ethnic nationalism. Membership of the civic nation is considered voluntary. Civic-national ideals influenced the development of representative democracy in countries such as the United States and France.

Can you imagine? Oh, the horror.