Guest #1 November 6, 2006 I go back and forth on this one. I'm working in a dirt-poor Third-World country where corruption is rampant, so I've got first-hand experience upon which to base my observations... Poverty and corruption appear to be a "Chicken and Egg" thing: Is the poverty caused by corruption, or is the corruption caused by poverty? A lot of Third World countries, in my opinion, are Third World countries not because they are poor, but because there is graft and rot everywhere, from the street corner to the top of the government. However, one could also say that desperate people do desperate, every-man-for-himself things in order to simply survive. In this news story, it's saying that Iraq is very corrupt and very poor (despite immense amounts of oil wealth). In this case, I think it's from the top down. Saddam was a mobster, and ran a corrupt spoils system that would have made Al Capone blush with envy. There is still a lot of it there. Something else in the article is noteworthy: the US is 20th on the list. In other words, the study shows nineteen other nations that have more integrity and less corruption than the US. I find this disturbing, because in my opinion it shows unfair bias against the US, but the article says that there may be some bias in the study due to the recent corporate scandals and Foleygate. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #2 November 6, 2006 QuoteI go back and forth on this one. I'm working in a dirt-poor Third-World country where corruption is rampant, so I've got first-hand experience upon which to base my observations... Poverty and corruption appear to be a "Chicken and Egg" thing: Is the poverty caused by corruption, or is the corruption caused by poverty? A lot of Third World countries, in my opinion, are Third World countries not because they are poor, but because there is graft and rot everywhere, from the street corner to the top of the government. However, one could also say that desperate people do desperate, every-man-for-himself things in order to simply survive. In this news story, it's saying that Iraq is very corrupt and very poor (despite immense amounts of oil wealth). In this case, I think it's from the top down. Saddam was a mobster, and ran a corrupt spoils system that would have made Al Capone blush with envy. There is still a lot of it there. Something else in the article is noteworthy: the US is 20th on the list. In other words, the study shows nineteen other nations that have more integrity and less corruption than the US. I find this disturbing, because in my opinion it shows unfair bias against the US, but the article says that there may be some bias in the study due to the recent corporate scandals and Foleygate. mh . If you spent some time in Illinois you would not find it hard to believe the US position on the list.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpozzoli 0 #3 November 6, 2006 Quote Something else in the article is noteworthy: the US is 20th on the list. In other words, the study shows nineteen other nations that have more integrity and less corruption than the US. I find this disturbing, because in my opinion it shows unfair bias against the US, but the article says that there may be some bias in the study due to the recent corporate scandals and Foleygate. mh . Nowhere do they say that their study is 'biased', they'd be killing their own credibility if they did and I'm sure they're not that stupid. What they say is that U.S' rating has dropped recently because recent scandals have unearthed a lot of corruption that was previously hidden, and that clearly would affect the perceived level of corruption, wouldn't it? Bias is something else entirely, these are plain facts. Of course it's much easier to denigrate other countries than to admit that the in the "Land of the free" lots of people feel "free" to steal and embezzle and expect to get away with it (lots actually do, I'm sure). Vale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #4 November 6, 2006 The top ten (Least corrupt) nations: Lots of those nasty socialist Scandinavian nations there! 1= Finland 9.6 1= Iceland 9.6 1= New Zealand 9.6 4 Denmark 9.5 5 Singapore 9.4 6 Sweden 9.2 7 Switzerland 9.1 8 Norway 8.8 9= Australia 8.7 9= Netherlands 8.7... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #5 November 6, 2006 Quote In this news story, it's saying that Iraq is very corrupt and very poor (despite immense amounts of oil wealth). In this case, I think it's from the top down. Saddam was a mobster, and ran a corrupt spoils system that would have made Al Capone blush with envy. Well, Iraq's score has gone DOWN (to 1.9) since the invasion, so it's worse under the puppet govt. than it was under Saddam.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #6 November 7, 2006 QuoteThe top ten (Least corrupt) nations: Lots of those nasty socialist Scandinavian nations there! What's the point of corruption in a socialist country? If the government gives everything, anyway, what's the point of greasing the government to give you something? Although Cuba is pretty corrupt - the leaders managed a way to make it better for themselves. Here's a map I found mapping out corruption in the world. [ur]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/World_Map_Index_of_perception_of_corruption.png[/url] I think the map has the US about right. It's not federal corruption that is king - it's the local corruption. The US has plenty of it. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #7 November 7, 2006 Jesus H Christ man... how long have you been on here and still do not make it a clicky??? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/World_Map_Index_of_perception_of_corruption.png I think the USA would be FAR higher up ther on the list but PORK PROJECTS... are legal ways for our politicians to favor their buddies... I mean contributors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #8 November 7, 2006 Here are the top 40 scores: Finland 9.6 Iceland 9.6 New Zealand 9.6 Denmark 9.5 Singapore 9.4 Sweden 9.2 Switzerland 9.1 Norway 8.8 Australia 9 8.7 Netherlands 8.7 Austria 8.6 Luxembourg 8.6 United Kingdom 8.6 Canada 8.5 Hong Kong 8.3 Germany 8.0 Japan 7.6 France 7.4 Ireland 7.4 Belgium 7.3 Chile 7.3 USA 7.3 Spain 6.8 Barbados 6.7 Estonia 6.7 Macao 6.6 Portugal 6.6 Malta 6.4 Slovenia 6.4 Uruguay 6.4 United Arab Emirates 6.2 Bhutan 6.0 Qatar 6.0 Israel 5.9 Taiwan 5.9 Bahrain 5.7 Botswana 5.6 Cyprus 5.6 Oman 5.4 Jordan 5.3 ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
