Home Defense Weapon?

[ExAFO 0]

I've been looking at getting a weapon for home defense, after the neighbor (other side of the duplex) was robbed.

I've been steered towards both a .20ga shotgun, and a 1911 with a laser dot.

Recommendations?

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[rehmwa 2]

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I've been steered towards both a .20ga shotgun,

why, do you think a little girl might also have to use it?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[steve1 5]

I think both would be good. A twenty guage might be a little light though. At close enough range it would probably put a perp. down. I read a study once, that said that bad guys hit with a shotgun often get back up and return fire. Maybe it is because they were hit at longer ranges and only part of the shot pattern hit them. I think most police and military use a 12 guage....Steve1

[ExAFO 0]

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I've been steered towards both a .20ga shotgun,

why, do you think a little girl might also have to use it?

So I take it you'd recommend 12 gauge?

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Butters 0]

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I've been looking at getting a weapon for home defense, after the neighbor (other side of the duplex) was robbed.

I've been steered towards both a .20ga shotgun, and a 1911 with a laser dot.

Recommendations?

Are you going to leave the weapon loaded or unloaded. It takes longer to load shells into a shotgun then a clip into a pistol. There are other things to think about also ... have you thought about mace or a tazer?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Zipp0 1]

http://personalsecurityzone.com/cgi-win/order/prodlist.exe/PSZ/?Template=ProdDetail.htm&ProductID=22592

Get that, and then let me borrow it for a weekend.....

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[ExAFO 0]

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I've been looking at getting a weapon for home defense, after the neighbor (other side of the duplex) was robbed.

I've been steered towards both a .20ga shotgun, and a 1911 with a laser dot.

Recommendations?

Are you going to leave the weapon loaded or unloaded. It takes longer to load shells into a shotgun then a clip into a pistol. There are other things to think about also ... have you thought about mace or a tazer?

Shotgun: Loaded, would not have one in the chamber. The sound of the slide is intimidating.

Pistol: full magazine and one in the pipe.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[rehmwa 2]

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I've been steered towards both a .20ga shotgun,

why, do you think a little girl might also have to use it?

So I take it you'd recommend 12 gauge?

just a little harmless mockery

but take it as a serious question - do you have young person in the house ready to learn about shotguns? or is the wife smaller?

if so, a 20 ga is a nice choice. Else, a simple 12 ga (rem 870 with a couple different barrels is nice to own, fairly cheap and widely available - it's what I have. a 21 inch barrel and a 32 inch barrel for different uses - I'm into functionality, not collector's items or the like. The old man is a gunsmith for the last 60 years and a collector as well. I've grown up with guns.)

shotguns are great, just the noise will scare off most intruders - which is a much better solution than being forced to fire it.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Butters 0]

I prefer a pistol because it is easier to place around the house (harder for an intruder to find), better in close quarters, holds more bullets, etc...

Other things to think about, home security system, motion sensor light switch in hallway outside bedrooms (nice in general), are you willing to shoot (and possibly kill) someone, etc...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[ryoder 1,590]

http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/samsungs-200000-machine-gun-sentry-robot

Of course I can understand how people who have seen "Robocop" might be a bit nervous about this.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ExAFO 0]

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but take it as a serious question - do you have young person in the house ready to learn about shotguns? or is the wife smaller?

if so, a 20 ga is a nice choice. Else, a simple 12 ga (rem 870 with a couple different barrels is nice to own, fairly cheap and widely available - it's what I have. a 21 inch barrel and a 32 inch barrel for different uses - I'm into functionality, not collector's items or the like. The old man is a gunsmith for the last 60 years and a collector as well. I've grown up with guns.)

shotguns are great, just the noise will scare off most intruders - which is a much better solution than being forced to fire it.

No kids, but the girlfriend might have to use it, ergo I think a 20 ga might be the way to go. Semi auto would give me the double tap opportunity... Buckshot with a deer slug chaser.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[rehmwa 2]

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Shotgun: Loaded, would not have one in the chamber. The sound of the slide is intimidating.

Pistol: full magazine and one in the pipe.

Why keep a round in the "pipe" of a pistol or even the clip when all you have to do it insert the thing and chamber a round when/if you need it? Ditto on a shotgun, loading isn't a 20 step written procedure with signoffs.

This isn't gun ownership, this is video game mentality....... Especially if the girlfriend also has access.

If you have time to get the gun, you have time to load it - both a shotgun and pistol only take seconds. I don't agree with keeping a loaded gun in the house except for very specific situations. I do agree that the ammo and gun should be readily available near each other as long as they are kid (and visitor) safe.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Butters 0]

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but take it as a serious question - do you have young person in the house ready to learn about shotguns? or is the wife smaller?

if so, a 20 ga is a nice choice. Else, a simple 12 ga (rem 870 with a couple different barrels is nice to own, fairly cheap and widely available - it's what I have. a 21 inch barrel and a 32 inch barrel for different uses - I'm into functionality, not collector's items or the like. The old man is a gunsmith for the last 60 years and a collector as well. I've grown up with guns.)

shotguns are great, just the noise will scare off most intruders - which is a much better solution than being forced to fire it.

No kids, but the girlfriend might have to use it, ergo I think a 20 ga might be the way to go. Semi auto would give me the double tap opportunity... Buckshot with a deer slug chaser.

I would be hesitant with a deer slug, it could easily go threw walls and into another room or neighbors house (same with a higher caliber pistol).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[ryoder 1,590]

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I would be hesitant with a deer slug, it could easily go threw walls and into another room or neighbors house (same with a higher caliber pistol).

Good point; For home defense definitely a shotgun with shot, or a handgun with large caliber, low velocity round, (eg 45ACP).

Back when I used to do a lot of reloading and weekly shooting, one of my shooting buddies once brought along a cardboard box full of paper magazines. We each took turns shooting into the end of the box (perpendicular to the stack of magazines). Then he took out the magazines and pulled them apart to see which round got the most penetration.

It was humbling to see his 22LR CCI Stinger beat my 45ACP and my 357!

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[mnealtx 0]

I'll vote for the shotgun, loaded with #4.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Zipp0 1]

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If you have time to get the gun, you have time to load it - both a shotgun and pistol only take seconds. I don't agree with keeping a loaded gun in the house except for very specific situations. I do agree that the ammo and gun should be readily available near each other as long as they are kid (and visitor) safe.

For a handgun, you can buy a safe with a spring loaded door and 5 pad electronic lock that can be opened in 2 seconds. Keeping a loaded pistol in this, under your bed, would be safe and effective, in my opinion. A gun will do you no good if it is not loaded, or if you can't get to it, or if it is locked (triggerlock). Also, consider a weapon light for either a pistol or shotgun. They will blind an intruder, and are sometimes enough to scare off an attacker.

Consider carefully the odds of being robbed versus the odds of someone being hurt accidentily.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[AggieDave 6]

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They will blind an intruder, and are sometimes enough to scare off an attacker.

Not only that, but you HAVE to identify your target. Even if you're the only person that has a key to your place, whats not to say its a buddy that got real drunk and thought to come over and surprise you.

An unloaded gun is as useful for home defense as your dick. If its big enough the intruder might be impressed and get scared off. Or the intruder will laugh and hurt you with it.

You can safely store a loaded weapon within quick reach, there are multiple solutions. The four and five finger keybad safes, etc. Depending on who you are and how you keep your self defense weapons you can have a weapon out and drawn on the doorway to your room in literally 1 second or even less if you happen to be awake and around 2 seconds if you are asleep. The rest of the time that you would have spend finding and loading your weapon you can spend calling 911 while you keep the entrance to your room covered. The intruder might take all of your stuff on the outside of the bedroom, but you've got the entrance covered for your room and the police on the way. Instead of still fumbling with finding that damned magazine and putting it into the magazine well.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[rehmwa 2]

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you can buy a safe with a spring loaded door and 5 pad electronic lock that can be opened in 2 seconds. Keeping a loaded pistol in this, under your bed, would be safe and effective, in my opinion.

agreed

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Butters 0]

Don't forget to go to the range and become familiar with loading, turning on/off safety, and firing your weapon (along with everyone that may use it).

PS: My home defense is a State Trooper who lives next door and leaves the patrol car parked in the driveway every night. Makes a good deterrent. I would like a pistol and safe but I can't afford it and at this point don't think I need it.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[GQ_jumper 4]

I agree with Rehmwa on the 20 GA not being enough, yes a 20 could put someone down with the right type of round but why risk it, a 12 is the way to go. As for looking for a semi auto over a pump, well if you're trained on the pump you can get your shots off pretty damn quick, and even with the semi how quick do you think you can reaquire yur sight picture to get off that second shot, again unless you're a fairly well trained shooter probably about at the same speed as the pump, and when it comes to dealing with a malfunction, a pump is just easier on the immedeate action part. As for ammo, 00 buck will do the job very well, there's really no need for a slug if you're going to be sing it at the ranges that you would be in a house, take some of that ammo and a piece of plywood and shoot it at different ranges with the 00 and look at the shot patterns, you'll see that the buckshot is still quite effective at decent ranges(for a shotgun). Also Rehm mentioned the 870, I agree again, and I'd recommend Remington, steer clear of Mossberg shotguns, I have issues with them after we blew out some of their barrels using them as breeching shotguns.

You also mentioned pistols, one thing to think about when looking for a pistol for home defense, if youre at the close range you will be in a house and are shooting at a target the size of a person you don't need any fancy match pistol, who cares if the trigger isn't set to get you a 2 inch shot group at 5 meters. Pretty much any pistol in terms of accuracy will suffice in a house. Look for one thing, ease of operation, when you get into a tense life or death situation finite motor skills go to shit and you can't think straight, so get the easiest operating pistol you can find. In terms of ease of use, you may want to steer clear of a 1911 unless you have A LOT of time to dedicate to familiarizing yourself with the operation of the pistol, you may think to yourself "all I have to do if it misfires is pull the slide back and cycle the next round" while you're sitting at the PC but when you're in the mix and things are happening fast you'll fumble with it, I've put hundreds of thousands of round down range and still everyonce in a while find myself stutter steppin when it comes to immedeate action, and this is in a training environment not in real combat. Although its far from being my favorite pistol, a Glock is very asy to manipulate, and there are a few other similar pistols out there that are just as simple. The laser sight, yeah great thing to have if you don't have a lot of time to dedicate to becoming a well trained marskman, great for instinctive shooting, but remember one thing with that, if you can see the laser, so can he. If you are moving towards a corner and the intruder is around it watching your laser on the wall he knows exactly where you are but you don't kno where he is, if you're going to go that route think about getting a pressure pad on the grip so you can just squeeze the grip and make it come on whenit's time to make the shot, back to the shotgun real quick you can also get taclites for the stock with pressure switches, taclites are great in dark houses, jsut remember if you are moving through a house with it on you are broadcasting your location. One last thingon the pistol, you said your girlfriend may need to use it, so you may want to look at a 9MM if she's not comfortable with a .45. Poeple are always saying a 9MM won't do the trick when it comes to putting someone down, and we have proved that to be true in Iraq, but that is with standard 9MM ball ammo. If youget the right kind of ammo such as hydra shock you will have more than enough stopping power, 9MM's are easy to control and a lot of people like the lighter weapon so why not go with that with a better ammo.

Just a couple things to think about, the big things are always ease of operation, reliability, and simplicity when it comes to fixing malfunctions. Trust me no matter how comfortable you think you are with a weapon it all goes to shit the first time someone points one back at you(trust me, I've been there) and you don't want to be fumbling with a safety selector when that time comes. It also never hurts to sit there and do dry fire drills with them to get used to the operation.

good luck

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[ExAFO 0]

On AggieDave's advice, I'm going w/12ga pump w/ 00 Buck. I don't want a pistol. I'd have to sell it if I moved back to the Democratic People's Republic of Chicago.

Fucking Daley...

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[GQ_jumper 4]

Then he took out the magazines and pulled them apart to see which round got the most penetration.

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One thing about rounds with more penetration is that they do less damage when they pass through a body. You can put 7 rounds of 5.56 Ball into a mans stomach and he can keep on fighting because it passes through too easily.

Like I mentioned though the 9MM with the right ammo is usually the perfect combo

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[Skyrad 0]

I'm with you on this one. Sure a shotgun with a lazer dot may look the dogs danglys but in a house (again how much room do you have in you house) a pistol in the right hands is going to be alot more manoverable. As for making intimidating sounds nothing is more intimidating as somone opening fire at you. Sounds like you might want to get some proper training. In fact do that and then make your mind up.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[akarunway 1]

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you can buy a safe with a spring loaded door and 5 pad electronic lock that can be opened in 2 seconds. Keeping a loaded pistol in this, under your bed, would be safe and effective, in my opinion.

agreed

2 secs can cost your life. One in the pipe ready to go

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Skyrad 0]

Not to forget that in a house especialy if another person is in it somewhere the round that exits the target will carry on until it hits something or someone else. I agree with you on the 9mm option. Having dealt with many gunshot wounds I can say with confidence that calibre difference between .45 and 9mm is irrelevant if you hit the person in a vital area. I've seen people hit by several .45 rounds in the chest and survive and I've seen many people hit by one round of 9mm and die. I've even seen several people shot with .22 and die.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca