kallend 2,150
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QuoteDo I really come across as that confrontational and sarcastic?
No, you need to work on it.
-
Richards 0
QuoteQuoteQuote***
Do I really come across as that confrontational and sarcastic?
Richards
Is this Speakers' Corner? Is the Pope Catholic?
I don't know what to say. I simply wanted to make the point that you are knowledgable in the sciences and I am not, and therefore I was at a disadvantage on that point and unable to either agree or disagree with you. I really did not mean to come across as being flippant. It kind of concerns me that a statement acknowledging someones expertise can be perceived as an insult. It must be my delivery.
It is not in my nature to try to be rude to people who I am conversing with online. I like a good heated debate but I never look for fights.
Cheers,
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
I just watched a discover show on lobsters and they said we are doing just fine with the amount we harvest each year do to the size of the lobster one can catch. The fines are huge so not to many people risk the chance of taking the ones they will be fined for.
Remember when people said you can get aids from shaking a persons hands.
Remember when people said you can get aids from shaking a persons hands.
labrys 0
QuoteI just watched a discover show on lobsters and they said we are doing just fine with the amount we harvest each year do to the size of the lobster one can catch. The fines are huge so not to many people risk the chance of taking the ones they will be fined for.
Remember when people said you can get aids from shaking a persons hands.
Ummmm..... hard to argue that analogy.
Yeah, I know I'm not the first to post the bunny pic but it seemed well suited here.
Owned by Remi #?
As my dad once said>"You have black and white. Stay in the gray"QuoteI don't think ecofreaks generally utililize combustion engines for recreation. So Kallend is most likely not an ecofreak, or at least not a devout ecofreak. At most, Kallend is more the part-time (half-hearted) ecofreak. Is there such a thing as an Evangelical Ecofreak?...a "do as I preach, not as I do" type of ecofreak.
FallRate
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
DaVinci 0
QuoteIt is not in my nature to try to be rude to people who I am conversing with online. I like a good heated debate but I never look for fights.
What are you doing here?
QuoteI just watched a discover show on lobsters and they said we are doing just fine with the amount we harvest each year do to the size of the lobster one can catch. The fines are huge so not to many people risk the chance of taking the ones they will be fined for.
Umm, if you only look locally this might be true. In the tropics you have fisherman diving deeper and deeper to find the bugs and suffering a pretty high rate of decompression sickness and maladies not seen since the caissons were used.
Size limits failed utterly with the abalone fishery south of Big Sur in California. It takes very little poaching to stay ahead of the reproductive rate when the creature takes a decade to get to legal size.
Is this Speakers' Corner? Is the Pope Catholic?
Quote
Does a one legged duck swim in a circle?
to reply to what someone sadi though, yes the environment adapts to changing conditions and so does the ecosystem, but a change that drastic in half a century, no i don't believe soHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower
Richards 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteIt is not in my nature to try to be rude to people who I am conversing with online. I like a good heated debate but I never look for fights.
What are you doing here?
Mostly enjoying the debates and being entertained by some of the rather colourful characters here.
I never found that fighting on this sight contributed in any way to a debate. I usually find it irritating even if it does not involve me. I realize you should not be here if you are thin skinned, which I am not. I have been called every name under the sun here yet laugh it off . I simply do not go looking for it as I find it to be a rather pointless use of my time and energy.
It did concern me however that an acknowledgement of someones expertise was misconstrued as an implied personal attack. If my choice of words is that far from the intended message then I need to work on that.
Cheers,
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
I would agree how are the places doing that are raising salamon and clams, etc for food sources?
Are we not repleneshing what we take? I know we have cut down on the poaching but that will never stop. It is a lot better then it was 20-30 years ago...
Are we not repleneshing what we take? I know we have cut down on the poaching but that will never stop. It is a lot better then it was 20-30 years ago...
Royd 0
The whole thing is self regulating on commercial end.QuoteWhat can I say? The story speaks for itself. We may have screwed ourselves.
I was shopping at Sam's yesterday. Two lobster tails were $35. Pork loin was $1.80 lb. Guess which one went into my cart.
If a commercial fisherman has to spend three times as much in fuel and labor to catch his product, he has to pass it on to the consumer, or go broke.
Unless you just have money to throw away, there's a price that you will not pay for something.
There are also some creatures, such as shrimp, which have a short life cycle, and would simply die and go to waste.
As for the ability of a species to recover, think about the alligator. I know it is still on the endangered list, but being at the top of its food chain, it has practically become a nuisance.
tbrown 26
QuoteQuoteBe careful not to under estimate the importance of this story.... if WE remove a major link in the food chain then the whole thing is likely to unravel.. scary
I have this funny feeling tht life will learn to adapt.
Life adapts, but it takes time and meanwhile we all have to eat. By "all" I mean more than just the people.
Scary thought #2 is that the land and sea food chains are both based on UV sensitive micro organisms that live within 2 ft of the surface of both land and water. On land it's nitrogen fixing bacteria that make it possible for plant roots to do their job. In the sea it's all the plankton floating around. Take either one away and the rest of the food chain starves.
Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !
QuoteI would agree how are the places doing that are raising salamon and clams, etc for food sources?
Are we not repleneshing what we take? I know we have cut down on the poaching but that will never stop. It is a lot better then it was 20-30 years ago...
For the most part we're ignoring the subject of replenishing until the given fishery has collapsed. See all the debates over oil supply - the behavior of the producers (fisherman) is identical.
Farmed shrimp may be more sound than wild catch, where 90-95lbs of bycatch is hauled in for 5lbs of shrimp. But mangroves are cleared out to build the farms, and that will have other consequences.
billvon 3,120
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> I would agree how are the places doing that are raising salamon
>and clams, etc for food sources?
OK in some places, not so good in others. One big problem is that they use wild fish as feed; this means that farmed fish cause MORE depletion of fisheries than just using the original fish. It's mainly the type of fish being farmed - species like catfish, tilapia, scallops, mussels and oysters aren't too bad. Salmon farming actually stresses the ecosystem more than using wild salmon.
>Are we not repleneshing what we take?
Definitely not; not cost-effective.
>and clams, etc for food sources?
OK in some places, not so good in others. One big problem is that they use wild fish as feed; this means that farmed fish cause MORE depletion of fisheries than just using the original fish. It's mainly the type of fish being farmed - species like catfish, tilapia, scallops, mussels and oysters aren't too bad. Salmon farming actually stresses the ecosystem more than using wild salmon.
>Are we not repleneshing what we take?
Definitely not; not cost-effective.
billvon 3,120
>The whole thing is self regulating on commercial end.
That's literally true. Once a species gets hunted below replenishment levels, it goes extinct, it cannot be sold any more, and the market adjusts itself to compensate. It's happened before, with the wooly mammoth, giant armadillo, dodo and passenger pigeon. Hopefully, people will be smarter this time.
> If a commercial fisherman has to spend three times as much in fuel and
>labor to catch his product, he has to pass it on to the consumer, or go
>broke.
Not true. Hunters still make plenty of money hunting endangered species. You know that self-regulating market you were talking about? If that hunter has to spend three times as much in fuel, but the product is incredibly scarce, he will be able to sell it for 30 times its previous price - and he will make a mint. That's why a lot of species got hunted to the brink of extinction, because the market will pay a very high price for something with a high demand and tiny supply. Basic economics.
> As for the ability of a species to recover, think about the alligator.
That is a good example! If we did the same for (say) the cod fisheries for a decade or so, populations would recover and we could start fishing them again. But continuing to fish until there are no cod left would be a mistake.
That's literally true. Once a species gets hunted below replenishment levels, it goes extinct, it cannot be sold any more, and the market adjusts itself to compensate. It's happened before, with the wooly mammoth, giant armadillo, dodo and passenger pigeon. Hopefully, people will be smarter this time.
> If a commercial fisherman has to spend three times as much in fuel and
>labor to catch his product, he has to pass it on to the consumer, or go
>broke.
Not true. Hunters still make plenty of money hunting endangered species. You know that self-regulating market you were talking about? If that hunter has to spend three times as much in fuel, but the product is incredibly scarce, he will be able to sell it for 30 times its previous price - and he will make a mint. That's why a lot of species got hunted to the brink of extinction, because the market will pay a very high price for something with a high demand and tiny supply. Basic economics.
> As for the ability of a species to recover, think about the alligator.
That is a good example! If we did the same for (say) the cod fisheries for a decade or so, populations would recover and we could start fishing them again. But continuing to fish until there are no cod left would be a mistake.
Quote
Not true. Hunters still make plenty of money hunting endangered species. You know that self-regulating market you were talking about? If that hunter has to spend three times as much in fuel, but the product is incredibly scarce, he will be able to sell it for 30 times its previous price - and he will make a mint. That's why a lot of species got hunted to the brink of extinction, because the market will pay a very high price for something with a high demand and tiny supply. Basic economics.
Exactly what happened to the abalone fishery in SoCal. At $50/lb or even $50/plate, there will still enough buyers to make it worthwhile to go out for every remaining one.
Royd 0
>The whole thing is self regulating on commercial end.
That's literally true. Once a species gets hunted below replenishment levels, it goes extinct, it cannot be sold any more, and the market adjusts itself to compensate.
Anything with the word dodo in its name is probably too stupid to live, anyway.
Pigeons were hunted for sport, and also for crop control.
That's literally true. Once a species gets hunted below replenishment levels, it goes extinct, it cannot be sold any more, and the market adjusts itself to compensate.
Bit of a stretch on the first two, wouldn't you say?QuoteIt's happened before, with the wooly mammoth, giant armadillo, dodo and passenger pigeon
Anything with the word dodo in its name is probably too stupid to live, anyway.
Pigeons were hunted for sport, and also for crop control.
billvon 3,120
>Bit of a stretch on the first two, wouldn't you say?
Why? It looks like they were hunted to extinction as well.
> Anything with the word dodo in its name is probably too stupid to live, anyway.
True. And cod is a dumb-sounding name as well.
> Pigeons were hunted for sport, and also for crop control.
Yep. Imagine how much faster they'd be gone if they were hunted for food as well.
Why? It looks like they were hunted to extinction as well.
> Anything with the word dodo in its name is probably too stupid to live, anyway.
True. And cod is a dumb-sounding name as well.
> Pigeons were hunted for sport, and also for crop control.
Yep. Imagine how much faster they'd be gone if they were hunted for food as well.
Is this Speakers' Corner? Is the Pope Catholic?
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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