Kerry's recent comments

[billvon 3,120]

>which showed it to be "what if they" brainstorming . . .

OK, let's take it out of the theoretical and into the real.

John Boehner said today that we should blame the generals in Iraq, not Rumsfeld or the administration, for what's happening there. Outraged or not? (To save you the Google, Boehner is a republican.)

[Amazon 7]

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While I try to make allowances for the source (to most politicians, the body politic are nothing more than PR groups), I would be offended by this statement regardless of who said it.

Personally I think ACTIONS speak louder than words. That offends me even more.

[NCclimber 0]

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The bald words, especially unsupported by the rest of the statement, are a slur against our military (not that it's an unusual thing for Mssr. Kerry) and he rightly needed to apologize.

What really made it escalate was his follow up of "I’m not going to apologize for going after the president", as if clarifying his intent and courageously standing his ground somehow meant no apology was needed.

He finally apologized only after his own party members started distancing themselves from him and publicly said he needed to apologize.

To say "he just didn't get it" is an understatement.

[mnealtx 0]

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>which showed it to be "what if they" brainstorming . . .

OK, let's take it out of the theoretical and into the real.

John Boehner said today that we should blame the generals in Iraq, not Rumsfeld or the administration, for what's happening there. Outraged or not? (To save you the Google, Boehner is a republican.)

I know he is - I saw a clip of the interview.

Entirely different scenario, unless Boehner said something before/after the clip I saw saying the generals were too stupid to carry out commands.

With that said - I disagree with Boehner's remarks - I would think that the SECDEF and JCS would be handling the overarching operational strategy, with the generals on the ground handling the local tactics.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>which showed it to be "what if they" brainstorming . . .

OK, let's take it out of the theoretical and into the real.

John Boehner said today that we should blame the generals in Iraq, not Rumsfeld or the administration, for what's happening there. Outraged or not? (To save you the Google, Boehner is a republican.)

I am. That's Bullshit and Boehner needs to STFU after he apologizes.

-

[billvon 3,120]

>Entirely different scenario . . .

Of course. Now, if democrats follow the same game plan (I hope they don't) then the rhetoric will be:

dems - "This just proves that the GOP has a 'blame the military' approach! It proves their hypocrisy - they claim to support the military, but blame them as soon as Bush's plans start to fail."

GOP - "That's not what he meant AT ALL. You're totally taking that out of context."

dems - "We demand that Boehner immediately apologize to the troops for his disparaging remarks."

(Boehner then issues some halfhearted apology, i.e. "sorry if anyone got upset.")

dems - "See? He admits that he was dissing the troops, even though he can't even do a real apology. It's pathetic that the GOP hates the troops so much that they can't even admit when they're wrong."

GOP - "Oh yeah? Well check out what Al Franken just said . . ."

And the cycle will continue. Personally I'm getting a bit sick of it, but I imagine there are people out there who think it advances their cause.

[NCclimber 0]

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John Boehner said today that we should blame the generals in Iraq, not Rumsfeld or the administration, for what's happening there. Outraged or not? (To save you the Google, Boehner is a republican.)

He should apologize!!!

[freethefly 6]

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And no mention of all the Democrats that made statements about the WMD's and supported the position... imagine that...

Some politicians are much like half-hearted lemmings that go as far as to the edge of the cliff and then quickly back pedal so as to not meet the same fate as the leader and his most loyal followers. At the bottom of the pile lies the one who is ultimately responsible.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Abraham Lincoln, (attributed)
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mnealtx 0]

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>Entirely different scenario . . .

Of course. Now, if democrats follow the same game plan (I hope they don't) then the rhetoric will be:

dems - "This just proves that the GOP has a 'blame the military' approach! It proves their hypocrisy - they claim to support the military, but blame them as soon as Bush's plans start to fail."

GOP - "That's not what he meant AT ALL. You're totally taking that out of context."

dems - "We demand that Boehner immediately apologize to the troops for his disparaging remarks."

(Boehner then issues some halfhearted apology, i.e. "sorry if anyone got upset.")

dems - "See? He admits that he was dissing the troops, even though he can't even do a real apology. It's pathetic that the GOP hates the troops so much that they can't even admit when they're wrong."

GOP - "Oh yeah? Well check out what Al Franken just said . . ."

And the cycle will continue. Personally I'm getting a bit sick of it, but I imagine there are people out there who think it advances their cause.

I don't know enough about what leeway (or not) that the generals on the ground have to develop strategy. I don't have the necessary information to make an informed comment...sorry.

Again, I submit that there is a large difference between saying "the generals aren't carrying out strategy as planned" and saying (in essence) "the only people that are in the military are the ones too stupid to have gone to college".

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Trent 0]

OMG!!! John Kerry was right!!

Bravo to these guys who had the courage to make this sign in the face of not being able to spell!

Good for them! A big FU to JFK.

Oh, hello again!

[billvon 3,120]

>Again, I submit that there is a large difference between saying "the
> generals aren't carrying out strategy as planned" and saying (in
> essence) "the only people that are in the military are the ones too
> stupid to have gone to college".

Both are stupid mistakes; Kerry did not mean to say military people are dumb, and Boehner did not mean to say that the military is to blame for the situation in Iraq.

The rhetoric, BTW, is developing pretty much as predicted:

Reid: "It’s political leaders like Congressman Boehner and Donald Rumsfeld, who have failed. I expect President Bush and Congressional Republicans, who demanded John Kerry apologize, hold their own party’s majority leader to a much higher standard."

Dean:"After the Bush Administration’s numerous failures in Iraq, to blame our brave troops is just wrong. John Boehner should apologize immediately."

Boehner's spokesman: “Democrats are quickly squandering any and all credibility by even attempting to equate Mr. Boehner’s comments with criticism of anyone in the military. . . .Mr. Boehner commends our military and our generals for doing a heroic job each and every day in their fight against terrorists in Iraq and around the globe. He thanks them every day for their bravery and will continue to do so.”

[TheAnvil 0]

I think those guys are skirting the Hatch Act and shouldn't have done that and released it so close to an election. I think it's hilarious, though.

Bill - I think the people to blame are the terrorists themselves. The SecDef really has little role in the tactical day to day operations or tactics the military employs. That's part of the reason Kerry's 'I would have guarded the ammo dumps' comment made him look like such an idiot. For tactical errors, 'tis the commanders that are to blame. Strategic ones, the civilian heads of the DoD come into play and may share the blame.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Amazon 7]

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Mr. Boehner commends our military and our generals for doing a heroic job each and every day in their fight against terrorists in Iraq and around the globe. He thanks them every day for their bravery and will continue to do so.”

AGAIN.. actions speak louder than half hearted homilies....


How about FAR BETTER equipment for the guys on the ground that need it.. such as a Buffalo rather than an armoured HUMV that withstands IEDS FAR better.
How about better pay for the troops...

How about better benefits for those that DID serve

How about support for the FAMILIES of troops or reservists instead of seeing them using food stamps...

How about veterans admin hospitals that have the funding to treat FOR LIFE the wounded/disabled/psychologically damaged veterans

THAT kind of thing goes a HELL of a lot farther than a quick " Thank you for your service"

SHOW US that our service was appreciated.

[NCclimber 0]

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John Boehner said today that we should blame the generals in Iraq, not Rumsfeld or the administration, for what's happening there. Outraged or not? (To save you the Google, Boehner is a republican.)

Bill,
I took you at your word that Boehner said we should blame the generals for what's happening in Iraq. Then I read what he actually said and came away with a completely different read. While it might be easy to infer your claim - especially you're looking hard - the fact is he didn't say it.

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“There are a lot of people who want to blame what’s happening in Iraq on Donald Rumsfeld, but when you look at the transformation that our military has been through, it’s nothing short of remarkable,” Boehner said. “The fact is, the generals on the ground are in charge.”

Boehner acknowledged that “there have been mistakes along the way,” but did not blame Rumsfeld.

“We’re fighting an enemy that’s unconventional, and this has become the central front in our war with al-Qaida,” Boehner said. “Al-Qaida continues to bring people into Iraq to let off these bombs, to stir up sectarian violence and we’re always having to adapt on the ground.”

Rumsfeld, Boehner said, has been pushing the military to transform, but the uniformed military leaders have resisted.

“You have to understand that the generals who have been in charge of the Pentagon have been very resistant to change,” Boehner said. “It’s the younger generals who understand this new force structure that we need to have for the military of the 21st century.

“I think there’s only one person in America who could have brought about that transformation, and that’s Donald Rumsfeld,” Boehner said. “He’s smart, he’s been through the Pentagon, knows how it works. And now we have a lighter, more flexible force, a quicker force.”

[billvon 3,120]

>Bill - I think the people to blame are the terrorists themselves.

Post-9/11 I would agree with you. But after we've killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, tortured and murdered Iraqis in our custody, failed to plan for victory, deprived Afghanistan of the troops needed to secure the country - we start sharing some of the blame. That's all of us; we're the ones that voted our leaders into power, and they're the ones making mistake after mistake.

Sure, we can blame only the terrorists/insurgents/foreign fighters (or pick the enemy name of the day) and be mostly correct about it. But I'd rather find the faults in our side, fix the problems and win the war than keep doing the "it's all just evil terrorists and the perfect moral US" thing and stay the course into defeat.

[rushmc 23]

He must have been telling a joke years ago too?

WASHINGTON (AP) - During a Vietnam-era run for Congress three decades ago, John Kerry said he opposed a volunteer Army because it would be dominated by the underprivileged, be less accountable and be more prone to "the perpetuation of war crimes."

Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran who turned against the war, made the observations in answers to a 1972 candidate questionnaire from a Massachusetts peace group.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Wasnt this just put out by your hero????

It certainly is not printed anywhere in the drive by media.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Wasnt this just put out by your hero????

It certainly is not printed anywhere in the drive by media.

It's an AP story in case you missed it.

[Amazon 7]

AGAIN.. actions speak louder than WORDS

HE SERVED

I wish the FAR RIGHT could GET THAT.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/senate/

Fought to Modernize and Strengthen America's Military. John Kerry has supported over $4 trillion in defense funding and has supported virtually every successful weapons system in use by today's military. In 2002, John Kerry voted for the largest increase in defense spending since the 1980's. And because John Kerry understands that our national security begins with the men and women who risk their lives to protect it, he has supported pay increases, benefit increases, and quality-of-life improvements for America's men and women in uniform throughout his career.

Improved Coverage and Care for America's Veterans. John Kerry has been a tireless champion of mandatory funding for veterans' health care. He fought vigorously for full funding of Veterans Administration (VA) health care and opposed the Bush administration's exclusion of Priority 8 veterans and its elimination of VA outreach efforts. He sought improved prescription drug benefits and authored legislation in 2003 to let veterans fill prescriptions written by non-VA doctors through the VA pharmacy

Took on the Task of Investigating POW/MIA Issues. John Kerry and John McCain "doggedly investigated" an important and volatile issue which some described as an "unglamorous task that nobody else wanted." Regarding the investigation, John McCain said, "John Kerry handled the chairmanship of that committee with tremendous skill." In 1994, John Kerry sponsored an amendment with McCain that urged the American government to lift its 25-year trade embargo with Vietnam. He then worked closely with McCain and President Clinton to facilitate full normalization of trade and diplomatic relations with Vietnam.

Fought to Help Victims of Agent Orange. Beginning more than 15 years ago, John Kerry introduced legislation to assist veterans in receiving medical compensation after being exposed to the toxic chemical Agent Orange. John Kerry even testified before Congress to force the government to care for Vietnam veterans. John Kerry's bill, the Comprehensive Agent Orange Scientific Evidence Review Act, sought to require that the Veterans Administration(VA) look into the "health effects of exposure" to Agent Orange. John Kerry also voted to pass the Agent Orange Act of 1991 and the Veterans' Agent Orange Exposure and Vietnam Service Benefits Act of 1989.

[kallend 2,150]

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AGAIN.. actions speak louder than WORDS

HE SERVED

I wish the FAR RIGHT could GET THAT.

The fuss is just a ploy to distract the voters from the miserable record of the GOP controlled 109th Congress. To avoid discussing the GOP's own failures they make a big fuss about a misfired joke from a non-candidate.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[juanesky 0]

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AGAIN.. actions speak louder than WORDS

HE SERVED

I wish the FAR RIGHT could GET THAT.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/senate/

So did GWB.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

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[sundevil777 102]

Quite right!

The dem leadership have consistently showed a contempt for the military. Clinton 'loathed', Kerry's made up stories in '74 and throwing his medals (maybe - he says he has them but won't show them). Their true feelings are shown in such statements as Kerry's. Kerry didn't even apologize, he just said he's sorry so many misinterpreted...

What a buttdumpling

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rushmc 23]

Here is more proof he served
Senator John Kerry has made his 4-month combat tour in Vietnam the centerpiece of his bid for the Presidency. His campaign jets a handful of veterans around the country, and trots them out at public appearances to sing his praises. John Kerry wants us to believe that these men represent all those he calls his "band of brothers."


But most combat veterans who served with John Kerry in Vietnam see him in a very different light.
.


Touch the photo to see which Swift officers support John Kerry, or click it to read more

The purpose of this photo is to correct the misleading use of our
images -- against our will -- to further John Kerry's campaign.
.
Swift Vets and POWs for Truth has been formed to counter the false "war crimes" charges John Kerry repeatedly made against Vietnam veterans who served in our units and elsewhere, and to accurately portray Kerry's brief tour in Vietnam as a junior grade Lieutenant. We speak from personal experience -- our group includes men who served beside Kerry in combat as well as his commanders. Though we come from different backgrounds and hold varying political opinions, we agree on one thing: John Kerry misrepresented his record and ours in Vietnam and therefore exhibits serious flaws in character and lacks the potential to lead.

We regret the need to do this. Most Swift boat veterans would like nothing better than to support one of our own for America's highest office, regardless of whether he was running as a Democrat or a Republican. However, Kerry's phony war crimes charges, his exaggerated claims about his own service in Vietnam, and his deliberate misrepresentation of the nature and effectiveness of Swift boat operations compel us to step forward.

For more than thirty years, most Vietnam veterans kept silent as we were maligned as misfits, drug addicts, and baby killers. Now that a key creator of that poisonous image is seeking the Presidency we have resolved to end our silence.


The time has come to set the record straight.


http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,150]

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But most combat veterans who served with John Kerry in Vietnam see him in a very different light.
.

You have proof of "most"? You like to ask that about "most scientists"!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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So did GWB.

Not showing up for your flight physical because you would test positive for the GOLDEN FLOW for cocaine usage.... and not filling out your TERM OF SERVICE..... that there is some quality service.

If I would have pulled shit like that I would have gotten a Dishonorable Discharge.

When I signed on the dotted line.. I served every last day... and showed up for EVERYTHING I volunteered for.