Kerry's recent comments

[idrankwhat 0]

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>But with Kerry we assume sinister motives.

Yep. Imagine what would happen if the media/democrats treated flubbed lines the same way the GOP does. When Bush said:

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

Heck, he'd be in Guantanamo by now!

You can't use logic or rational thought here Bill. What in the world are you thinking? This is a straw man bash fest that has no interest in accuracy but is fun for the people who are desperate to keep anybody with an (R) in control, even though practically everyone with an (R) after their name has betrayed them. It's kinda sad in a frustrating sort of way. But I'll admit, I have mixed emotions about all of this. It is just a little satisfying to see this panning out the way it has. Conservative talk radio, Republicans who are afraid of losing next week, and the White House are all deliberately ignoring Kerry's explanation, in some cases not even recognizing it, and carrying on with the practice of deliberately and methodically mis-informing the public. And the mainstream media does what it typically does which is to simply repeat the claims being made with little to no analysis. So basically, while this is indeed frustrating, it's great to see that I've not been wrong in the least about my accusations of the right wing media, the administration and their combined efforts to dumb down the electorate. Hmmmm.....which emoticon is appropriate?

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[idrankwhat 0]

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Been put out there a million times. You just do not want to hear it........

Great, just point me to the right thread then.

Don't ask for that. You'll be disappointed. There's no logic to be found in that argument until they admit the imperialist aspect of it.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Kerry messed up while trying to make a joke at the expense of someone else. It's kind of right that his petty sense of humor backfired. Maybe his subconscious trick him into misspeaking because he realizes he was being a child and pandering to those that like bitter humor.

Unfortunately that's the level to which our political discourse has been lowered. It basically got Bush elected, that's his entire schtick (sp) and it also gets good ratings on the telly. So is it the politician's fault or do we blame it on the consumer?

[Andy9o8 2]

I blame it on the consumer. The lowest common denominator controls the brain. In a democracy, people get the government they deserve.

[jcd11235 0]

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So is it the politician's fault or do we blame it on the consumer?

Or the corporate owned media?

Is TV "the reflector or the director?"

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[idrankwhat 0]

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So is it the politician's fault or do we blame it on the consumer?

Or the corporate owned media?

Is TV "the reflector or the director?"

That is a good point. I guess this is what you get when news media values their shareholders more than their audience.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Poor guy, so misinterpreted..

Right, we just laugh when GWB says something like:

"You know, when I campaigned here in 2000, I said, I want to be a war President. No President wants to be a war President, but I am one."—Des Moines, Iowa, Oct. 26, 2006

or

"I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport." (Oct 2, 2001).

But with Kerry we assume sinister motives.

How is that insulting to our troops who are risking their lives in Iraq. Big difference!!

What I find outrageous is Kerry's history of diparaging our military. Remember last year when he claimed US troops were terrorizing Iraqi citizens?

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With tens of thousands of Iraqi citizens killed, and a bunch of US troops on trial for murder, that seems a reasonable conclusion. We are there without an invitation, something you seem to conveniently overlook.

These are REAL insults

Oh, good!! Whats next? How long before the Left starts spitting on them and calling them "Baby-Killers" as they return home?

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[kallend 2,150]

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So is it the politician's fault or do we blame it on the consumer?

Or the corporate owned media?

Is TV "the reflector or the director?"

That is a good point. I guess this is what you get .

At least it isn't "The Decider"

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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When was this thread hijacked to be about Bush??

When you entered it

[Amazon 7]

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Oh, good!! Whats next? How long before the Left starts spitting on them and calling them "Baby-Killers" as they return home?

Hopefully the American people will not dishonor our troops that were put in harms way.. but it seems the Administration is now trying to put the blame for the debacle over there onto the generals... you know.. the ones who told them what they wanted to hear.. AFTER getting rid of all the ones who told them the TRUE details of what was needed IF they went to Iraq.

[PLFXpert 0]

I haven't read many responses, but just wanted to say I find the whole thing hilarious.

Kerry's botched line.
Bush's response.

Everyone's an opportunist these days. Intentions don't seem to matter anymore; just whether or not you like someone superficially and/or their party.

I don't care for either so it's quite easy to sit back and enjoy the entertainment. Might as well.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[rehmwa 2]

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Intentions don't seem to matter anymore; just whether or not you like someone superficially and/or their party.

I don't find it hilarious at all. The populace response drives subjective, emotional, shallow, no-value crap from all politicians on both sides of the aisle.

I'm insulted by the way the politicians treat the people. But then, the people eat it up, so what can you do?

It's like these forums - there is no quest for truth or education, just people picking one side or the other and trying to win at all costs with any argument they can find. That, and lot's of booze.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Lucky... 0]

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Bothed lines are one thing but this whole idea is not new from the eletist left is it? I mean I have heard this bs for years.

And senior administration officials have been working on the idea of a New World Order for quite some time. Should I believe that that is really what is going on with the War in Iraq? Is that what they really think?

It was a botched line, stupid indeed. It is a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill. I think many people are offended by it, because if logic and intelligence had won over fear, there would be no war in iraq.

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I think many people are offended by it, because if logic and intelligence had won over fear, there would be no war in iraq.

People aren;t offended by it, they need to act as if they are for mileage to counter the Foley scandal and all the rest.

I have no problem with it and agree with him. Just as when Bill Mahr said that the 911 terrorist were brave and killed Politically incorrect, I agree withhim too.

It was a cowardly act in its totality, but the individual act of flying an acft into a building, not including the fact that you are murdering people, is brave and crazy and that's what he said.

This is why I like the Dem mentality, they dissect issues and then bring them alltogether at the end rather than just lumping everything together and speaking in cliches that are patented and party-approved.

CONCLUSION: few are bothered over his comments, just using it as fodder.

[PLFXpert 0]

Oh, I understand and sympathize with that sentiment.

I tend to laugh and try to find the humor in things that are simply out of my control, even if such things are disappointing.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[kallend 2,150]

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CONCLUSION: few are bothered over his comments, just using it as fodder.

Well, it's a convenient distraction from the real issues that the GOP would rather not have to address: Iraq, debt, deficits...

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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This is why I like the Dem mentality, they dissect issues and then bring them alltogether at the end rather than just lumping everything together and speaking in cliches that are patented and party-approved.

that you actually attribute this to any political position.......

particularly in a thread about a leading politician trying to make an insult-based joke to get on the good side of a crowd that would response positively to that type of humor

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[freethefly 6]

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loggically we should be and we are in Iraq. Get used to it....

Logically. we should not be in Iraq but, we are and the most that the Idiot in Charge can focus on is a botched joke. The deaths that Bush and Thugs are responsible for should be the issue, not a botched joke. Get use to it.

This is a few years old but, still a good read and I dare you to find any logic that you can contribute to your desire for more death in Iraq.
Face the fact that Bush is a liar, a coward and is responsible for more death than Saddam is. In comparrison, Saddam was the truthful one and Bush is the deciever. Get use to it.

Ten Appalling Lies We Were Told About Iraq

By Christopher Scheer, AlterNet. Posted June 27, 2003.

It was a systematic campaign to frighten the hell out of us about the threat of Hussein, and almost none of it was true.

"The Iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten America and the world with horrible poisons and diseases and gases and atomic weapons."
-- George Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in a speech in Cincinnati.

There is a small somber box that appears in the New York Times every day. Titled simply "Killed in Iraq," it lists the names and military affiliations of those who most recently died on tour of duty. Wednesday's edition listed just one name: Orenthial J. Smith, age 21, of Allendale, South Carolina.

The young, late O.J. Smith was almost certainly named after the legendary running back, Orenthal J. Simpson, before that dashing American hero was charged for a double-murder. Now his namesake has died in far-off Mesopotamia in a noble mission to, as our president put it on March 19, "disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger."

Today, more than three months after Bush's stirring declaration of war and nearly two months since he declared victory, no chemical, biological or nuclear weapons have been found, nor any documentation of their existence, nor any sign they were deployed in the field.

The mainstream press, after an astonishing two years of cowardice, is belatedly drawing attention to the unconscionable level of administrative deception. They seem surprised to find that when it comes to Iraq, the Bush administration isn't prone to the occasional lie of expediency but, in fact, almost never told the truth.

What follows are just the most outrageous and significant of the dozens of outright lies uttered by Bush and his top officials over the past year in what amounts to a systematic campaign to scare the bejeezus out of everybody:

LIE #1: "The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program ... Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." -- President Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in Cincinnati.

FACT: This story, leaked to and breathlessly reported by Judith Miller in the New York Times, has turned out to be complete baloney. Department of Energy officials, who monitor nuclear plants, say the tubes could not be used for enriching uranium. One intelligence analyst, who was part of the tubes investigation, angrily told The New Republic: "You had senior American officials like Condoleezza Rice saying the only use of this aluminum really is uranium centrifuges. She said that on television. And that's just a lie."

LIE #2: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -- President Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address.

FACT: This whopper was based on a document that the White House already knew to be a forgery thanks to the CIA. Sold to Italian intelligence by some hustler, the document carried the signature of an official who had been out of office for 10 years and referenced a constitution that was no longer in effect. The ex-ambassador who the CIA sent to check out the story is pissed: "They knew the Niger story was a flat-out lie," he told the New Republic, anonymously. "They [the White House] were unpersuasive about aluminum tubes and added this to make their case more strongly."

LIE #3: "We believe [Saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." -- Vice President Cheney on March 16, 2003 on "Meet the Press."

FACT: There was and is absolutely zero basis for this statement. CIA reports up through 2002 showed no evidence of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program.

LIE #4: "[The CIA possesses] solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda going back a decade." -- CIA Director George Tenet in a written statement released Oct. 7, 2002 and echoed in that evening's speech by President Bush.

FACT: Intelligence agencies knew of tentative contacts between Saddam and al-Qaeda in the early '90s, but found no proof of a continuing relationship. In other words, by tweaking language, Tenet and Bush spun the intelligence180 degrees to say exactly the opposite of what it suggested.

LIE #5: "We've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases ... Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints." -- President Bush, Oct. 7.

FACT: No evidence of this has ever been leaked or produced. Colin Powell told the U.N. this alleged training took place in a camp in northern Iraq. To his great embarrassment, the area he indicated was later revealed to be outside Iraq's control and patrolled by Allied war planes.

LIE #6: "We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles] for missions targeting the United States." -- President Bush, Oct. 7.

FACT: Said drones can't fly more than 300 miles, and Iraq is 6,000 miles from the U.S. coastline. Furthermore, Iraq's drone-building program wasn't much more advanced than your average model plane enthusiast. And isn't a "manned aerial vehicle" just a scary way to say "plane"?

LIE #7: "We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they're weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established." -- President Bush, Feb. 8, 2003, in a national radio address.

FACT: Despite a massive nationwide search by U.S. and British forces, there are no signs, traces or examples of chemical weapons being deployed in the field, or anywhere else during the war.

LIE #8: "Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets." -- Secretary of State Colin Powell, Feb. 5 2003, in remarks to the UN Security Council.

FACT: Putting aside the glaring fact that not one drop of this massive stockpile has been found, as previously reported on AlterNet the United States' own intelligence reports show that these stocks -- if they existed -- were well past their use-by date and therefore useless as weapon fodder.

LIE #9: "We know where [Iraq's WMD] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat." -- Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, March 30, 2003, in statements to the press.

FACT: Needless to say, no such weapons were found, not to the east, west, south or north, somewhat or otherwise.

LIE #10: "Yes, we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited." -- President Bush in remarks in Poland, published internationally June 1, 2003.

FACT: This was reference to the discovery of two modified truck trailers that the CIA claimed were potential mobile biological weapons lab. But British and American experts -- including the State Department's intelligence wing in a report released this week -- have since declared this to be untrue. According to the British, and much to Prime Minister Tony Blair's embarrassment, the trailers are actually exactly what Iraq said they were; facilities to fill weather balloons, sold to them by the British themselves.

So, months after the war, we are once again where we started -- with plenty of rhetoric and absolutely no proof of this "grave danger" for which O.J. Smith died. The Bush administration is now scrambling to place the blame for its lies on faulty intelligence, when in fact the intelligence was fine; it was their abuse of it that was "faulty."

Rather than apologize for leading us to a preemptive war based on impossibly faulty or shamelessly distorted "intelligence" or offering his resignation, our sly madman in the White House is starting to sound more like that other O.J. Like the man who cheerfully played golf while promising to pursue "the real killers," Bush is now vowing to search for "the true extent of Saddam Hussein's weapons programs, no matter how long it takes."

On the terrible day of the 9/11 attacks, five hours after a hijacked plane slammed into the Pentagon, retired Gen. Wesley Clark received a strange call from someone (he didn't name names) representing the White House position: "I was on CNN, and I got a call at my home saying, 'You got to say this is connected. This is state-sponsored terrorism. This has to be connected to Saddam Hussein,'" Clark told Meet the Press anchor Tim Russert. "I said, 'But -- I'm willing to say it, but what's your evidence?' And I never got any evidence.'"

And neither did we.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mnealtx 0]

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People aren;t offended by it, they need to act as if they are for mileage to counter the Foley scandal and all the rest.

Speak for yourself - I and several other vets I personally know are damned offended by it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[NCclimber 0]

Considering how badly he mangled his lines, was it really wise for his people to to point out that in a prepared speech he was suppose to say: "if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy".

I mean, how hard is it to tell a joke?

A man walks into a bar...

[mnealtx 0]

And no mention of all the Democrats that made statements about the WMD's and supported the position... imagine that...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,120]

>I and several other vets I personally know are damned offended by it.

Right. And the next time Bush flubs a line and claims that "Al Qaeda is going to target the US again, and we will too" then the democratic widows of the 9/11 victims will be outraged, aghast, offended and disgusted by his hatred of america and callousness towards the victims of 9/11. And then republicans will have to be even MORE offended the next time Pelosi says something stupid - so they can be the REAL victims, of course.

It's the outrage arms race! Be the most offended on your block and win an election!

[Amazon 7]

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Speak for yourself - I and several other vets I personally know are damned offended by it.

Would you be as appalled by those of a republican persuasion who held such a view??

[rushmc 23]

FYI

Just so we know the source


Christophoer Sheer

http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1712

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

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>I and several other vets I personally know are damned offended by it.

Right. And the next time Bush flubs a line and claims that "Al Qaeda is going to target the US again, and we will too" then the democratic widows of the 9/11 victims will be outraged, aghast, offended and disgusted by his hatred of america and callousness towards the victims of 9/11. And then republicans will have to be even MORE offended the next time Pelosi says something stupid - so they can be the REAL victims, of course.

It's the outrage arms race! Be the most offended on your block and win an election!

If you're going to take the "and we will too" comment out of context of the rest of the statement (which showed it to be "what if they" brainstorming), then you have to take Kerry's comment exclusive of the rest of HIS statement.

The bald words, especially unsupported by the rest of the statement, are a slur against our military (not that it's an unusual thing for Mssr. Kerry) and he rightly needed to apologize.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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Speak for yourself - I and several other vets I personally know are damned offended by it.

Would you be as appalled by those of a republican persuasion who held such a view??

While I try to make allowances for the source (to most politicians, the body politic are nothing more than PR groups), I would be offended by this statement regardless of who said it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706