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QuoteQuote
I'm still not sure what the beef is here. He did volunteer for the Navy. He did go to Vietnam and was in combat. Those doing most of the criticizing didn't.
If we want to nit pick over the finer points of our leaders' service then I should probably ask, if it's more than 30 days isn't it actually considered desertion, not awol?
I think this is more of an example of Kerry's liberal elitism than it is a knock on the troops. I don't believe he said it with the intended consequences. He's just showing us that he's the rich Northeastern Liberal we always claimed he was. The timing on his statements is what I find odd.
He has cancelled all of his appointments today, so I guess he got that tongue lashing from Pelosi.
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I was referring more to the repeated attempts to down play Kerry's service. But regarding his recent comment that started this whole thing, I'm sure that the right will try to make it out to be what it wasn't. They're a little nervous right now and will take every shot that they can. I think it's lousy politics but I understand. However I think Kerry explained it pretty well. He screwed up his attempt to insult Bush. He could alpologize for the mis-statement but the press would only report that he said he was sorry for the insult (which was intended for someone else).
I'm sure you are right on all counts. Kerry should just apologize and be done with it but instead he fans the flames with spin. Of course the right is going to use this politically. The left does the same thing. I doubt that will ever change.
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QuoteDude, there is no way you can infer that from the context of what he said. Period.
Yes you can.
"I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting
Amazon 7
QuoteI'm still not sure what the beef is here. He did volunteer for the Navy. He did go to Vietnam and was in combat. Those doing most of the criticizing didn't.
Its because most of them... the sanctimonious right....never served and think serving is beneath them.. hell one of them told me he would never do it because the pay is terrible.. course he did that in a PM not wishing to out himself.
Here little Chickenhawk......
... come on... tellus the truth now....
QuoteQuoteQuoteKerry's botched joke was referring to BUSH, not the troops.
His point was that if you don't study hard, you'll become a fuck-up like Bush.
Not buying that spin. Why didn't he just say "end up in the White House" then? Nice try, though.
not a spin at all. Kerry was referring to Bush, not the troops.
Whatever he "meant", the timing is dumb and could very well cost the Dems the House and/or Senate. The D's are counting on the R's being apathetic and having low voter turn-out. This could help change that if it reminds the R's of how lousy the D's are at running the govt. It's also a huge distraction from the Bush-bashing.
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kallend 2,150
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteKerry's botched joke was referring to BUSH, not the troops.
His point was that if you don't study hard, you'll become a fuck-up like Bush.
Not buying that spin. Why didn't he just say "end up in the White House" then? Nice try, though.
not a spin at all. Kerry was referring to Bush, not the troops.
Whatever he "meant", the timing is dumb and could very well cost the Dems the House and/or Senate. The D's are counting on the R's being apathetic and having low voter turn-out. This could help change that if it reminds the R's of how lousy the D's are at running the govt. It's also a huge distraction from the Bush-bashing.
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Why does it all worry you so much? We'll see what happens next week. I do not claim to have a crystal ball, and I doubt you have one either. Storm in a teacup.
The actual issues are:
Iraq
Iraq
Iraq
Deficit
Abuse of Constitutional rights
Debt
Iraq
Social Security
N. Korea's nuke
Medicare
Iraq
Debt
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteKerry's botched joke was referring to BUSH, not the troops.
His point was that if you don't study hard, you'll become a fuck-up like Bush.
Not buying that spin. Why didn't he just say "end up in the White House" then? Nice try, though.
not a spin at all. Kerry was referring to Bush, not the troops.
Whatever he "meant", the timing is dumb and could very well cost the Dems the House and/or Senate. The D's are counting on the R's being apathetic and having low voter turn-out. This could help change that if it reminds the R's of how lousy the D's are at running the govt. It's also a huge distraction from the Bush-bashing.
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Why does it all worry you so much? We'll see what happens next week. I do not claim to have a crystal ball, and I doubt you have one either. Storm in a teacup.
The actual issues are:
Iraq
Iraq
Iraq
Deficit
Abuse of Constitutional rights
Debt
Iraq
Social Security
N. Korea's nuke
Medicare
Iraq
Debt
You must be getting different political campaigning up there. What we are getting is "my opponent is a bad guy because he votes with Bush" "Vote for me because my opponent said something dumb 30 years ago,".
What we aren't hearing is "this is my proposal for fixing SS, paying down the debt, etc".
We aren't even hearing that much on Iraq. Perhaps you are hearing voices?
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TheAnvil 0
So Kerry, a polished speaker from the far left, made that much of a goof up? Only in the imaginations of leftists. Face it - we all know what he meant and the underlying attitudes that would generate such a remark.
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
QuoteTo those who think Kerry enlisted out of a sense of duty, don't kid yourself. He enlisted to be able to choose which service he wanted (Navy was considered much safer than the Army), only after his requests for deferment were denied and the chance of being drafted was a distinct possibility.
Now, that is a slap in the face of all Navy men and women. Obvious, you had never been onboard a ship. They are anything but safe. My time in the Gulf was more at general quarters due to Iranian gunboats pulling alongside. Anyone of them may had been wired with explosives. We had fires to contend with (maybe you consider firefighting to be childs play. Combine a fire and the fact that the closet land is the bottom of the ocean a ship fire is a major event and anything but safe). We had an helicopter crash on the flight deck. Not all Navy personnel are stationed on board ships. Corpsmen are in the field with the troops. My father was in Danang as an aviation electrician. He was there during the Tet Offence. He also served aboard the Ranger, Kitty Hawk, Forrestal and the Enterprise just to name a few. The SEALs are in the field. Support personnel are often landside. My Navy has done more for this country than most realize. My Uncle Ralph was a gunner onboard a frigate during the battle for the Marshall Islands. The Navy controls the seas, the air and land. The Marines, a department of the Navy, depends on the Navy to get them to where they need to be and to provide support. My ship, the USS Okinawa, carried up to 2000 Marines and support vehicles.
A great number of men joined to avoid the army and served their time with honor. Would you like to belittle them too? By the way what branch did you serve in?
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
Quotecompassionate conservatism
How much do want to bet that Bush cannot say that 10 times real fast?
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
I never said serving in the Navy in Vietnam was risk-free. I never said service in the Navy was any less noble and valuble than duty in any other branch of our armed services. My point was that is was less risky than serving in the Army.
Army troop fatalities (in Vietnam) accounted for approximately 2/3rds of all US casualties. Navy fatalities accounted for less than five per cent.
Army troop fatalities (in Vietnam) accounted for approximately 2/3rds of all US casualties. Navy fatalities accounted for less than five per cent.
kallend 2,150
Quote
You must be getting different political campaigning up there. What we are getting is "my opponent is a bad guy because he votes with Bush" "Vote for me because my opponent said something dumb 30 years ago,".
What we aren't hearing is "this is my proposal for fixing SS, paying down the debt, etc".
We aren't even hearing that much on Iraq. Perhaps you are hearing voices?
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I didn't say that's what I'm hearing, I said that's what the real issues are. On the whole the candidates are a big disappointment.
Sad, isn't it.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
TheAnvil 0
You're both incorrect.
Kerry was commissioned as an officer - not enlisted, though he did choose his branch of service. Regardless of what anyone may think of the quality of his service, his reasons for service, how he conducted himself, or what he did afterwards, he DID serve.
I too have been aboard Naval vessels in the Arabian Gulf and consider the Navy the safer service in many regards. It isn't a slap in the face of the dangers Navy men and women face - it's a statement of fact. The majority of the Navy folks are not SEALs or EOD or NECC people (though with the advent of NECC I'm not so sure that will remain so). Navy folks do face danger every day - but in Vietnam, and in today's environs, it is the safer service. Service on a surface combatant today as compared with being in the field in Iraq is quite safe. Now the carrier flight deck would be a bit more dangerous, but I'd still say being on patrol in Fallujah would be far more dangerous than that. There are army positions that are not as dangerous as being on a ship as well. Each service has its own character, mission, and dangers intrinsic to each.
Kerry was commissioned as an officer - not enlisted, though he did choose his branch of service. Regardless of what anyone may think of the quality of his service, his reasons for service, how he conducted himself, or what he did afterwards, he DID serve.
I too have been aboard Naval vessels in the Arabian Gulf and consider the Navy the safer service in many regards. It isn't a slap in the face of the dangers Navy men and women face - it's a statement of fact. The majority of the Navy folks are not SEALs or EOD or NECC people (though with the advent of NECC I'm not so sure that will remain so). Navy folks do face danger every day - but in Vietnam, and in today's environs, it is the safer service. Service on a surface combatant today as compared with being in the field in Iraq is quite safe. Now the carrier flight deck would be a bit more dangerous, but I'd still say being on patrol in Fallujah would be far more dangerous than that. There are army positions that are not as dangerous as being on a ship as well. Each service has its own character, mission, and dangers intrinsic to each.
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
QuoteQuote
You must be getting different political campaigning up there. What we are getting is "my opponent is a bad guy because he votes with Bush" "Vote for me because my opponent said something dumb 30 years ago,".
What we aren't hearing is "this is my proposal for fixing SS, paying down the debt, etc".
We aren't even hearing that much on Iraq. Perhaps you are hearing voices?
-QuoteI didn't say that's what I'm hearing, I said that's what the real issues are. On the whole the candidates are a big disappointment.
If that's not what you are hearing, then how do you know that's what it's about? It may be about those issues for you, but I wouldn't say that's what it's about for others.QuoteSad, isn't it.
Agreed.![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]")
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TheAnvil 0
JACKASS '08
May I count on your support?
May I count on your support?
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuoteQuote
You must be getting different political campaigning up there. What we are getting is "my opponent is a bad guy because he votes with Bush" "Vote for me because my opponent said something dumb 30 years ago,".
What we aren't hearing is "this is my proposal for fixing SS, paying down the debt, etc".
We aren't even hearing that much on Iraq. Perhaps you are hearing voices?
-QuoteI didn't say that's what I'm hearing, I said that's what the real issues are. On the whole the candidates are a big disappointment.
If that's not what you are hearing, then how do you know that's what it's about? It may be about those issues for you, but I wouldn't say that's what it's about for others.
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Because that's what's left over when "My opponent is a scum-suckin' worm" and similar non issues are filtered out. Those are the issues that the 110th Congress has to grapple with. Kerry's stupid comments and Bush's verbal flubs are of no real consequence....
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,150
QuoteI never said serving in the Navy in Vietnam was risk-free. I never said service in the Navy was any less noble and valuble than duty in any other branch of our armed services. My point was that is was less risky than serving in the Army.
.
How did it compare with the Alabama and Texas National Guards?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteQuoteI never said serving in the Navy in Vietnam was risk-free. I never said service in the Navy was any less noble and valuble than duty in any other branch of our armed services. My point was that is was less risky than serving in the Army.
.
How did it compare with the Alabama and Texas National Guards?
See this is what I don't get. Bush isn't running for anything. If all you can do to defend Kerry is compare him to Bush, you guys are way short on a viable candidate. But hey, we already knew that.
Kerry is who he is. A NE liberal who bends with every sway of the wind.
steveOrino
not a spin at all. Kerry was referring to Bush, not the troops.
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