Kerry's recent comments

[Gravitymaster 0]

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AGAIN.. actions speak louder than WORDS

HE SERVED

I wish the FAR RIGHT could GET THAT.

Benedict Arnold was a famous General who also served.

What's your point?

-

[juanesky 0]

Just because he did not go to Vietnam, doe not means he did not serve, just as you did.

Or are you biased on your personal perceptions as to how, what and where must a serviceman do his job?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Amazon 7]

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Here is more proof he served Actions DO speak louder than words!!

Here is a great link to counter those WONDERFUL Partisan Swift Boaters.

Notice it is FACT CHECK.....ie FACTS not inuendo and LIES...from the FAR RIGHT

http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html

Summary



A group funded by the biggest Republican campaign donor in Texas began running an attack ad Aug. 5 in which former Swift Boat veterans claim Kerry lied to get one of his two decorations for bravery and two of his three purple hearts.
But the veterans who accuse Kerry are contradicted by Kerry's former crewmen, and by Navy records.

One of the accusers says he was on another boat "a few yards" away during the incident which won Kerry the Bronze Star, but the former Army lieutenant whom Kerry plucked from the water that day backs Kerry's account. In an Aug. 10 opinion piece in the conservative Wall Street Journal , Rassmann (a Republican himself) wrote that the ad was "launched by people without decency" who are "lying" and "should hang their heads in shame."

And on Aug. 19, Navy records came to light also contradicting the accusers. One of the veterans who says Kerry wasn't under fire was himself awarded a Bronze Star for aiding others "in the face of enemy fire" during the same incident.



McCain Speaks Up

Sen. John McCain -- who has publicly endorsed Bush and even appealed for donations to the President's campaign -- came to Kerry's defense on this. McCain didn't witness the events in question, of course. But he told the Associated Press in an August 5 interview:

McCain : I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crewmates have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam.



Shame on all of those who lie...SHAME

[Amazon 7]

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Or are you biased on your personal perceptions as to how, what and where must a serviceman do his job?

I am biased... I admit it..
IF YOU SAY YOU WILL SERVE and take that OATH... I expect you to LIVE up to it.

I know that is not really popular with the republicans who USED to be the party of personal responsibility.

[Butters 0]

I believe it would be best for both sides to start listening and stop talking. It is beginning to remind me of a debate in which both sides are trying to win, not through logic and reasoning but by continually talking in hopes that their points are heard and their opponents are not (regardless if their points are valid).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[juanesky 0]

Then after all those years, you did not learned that what you do, where you are posted at, does most of the time is not up to you?

How many more years would you have needed to ..nevermind.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Amazon 7]

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Then after all those years, you did not learned that what you do, where you are posted at, does most of the time is not up to you?

GWB knew EXACTLY where he was going to be stationed his daddy made sure of that...... Close to the Officers club and close to the town where he could score.


http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/g43.htm

As an Air National Guard pilot, Bush would have been required to have a physical examination each year, no later than July 31. (Flight physicals in the USAF/ANG expire on the last day of one's birth month. Bush was born July 6.) Examinations can be accomplished as early as 3 months before one's birth month.
Thus, when Bush was ordered on May 4, 1972 to undergo a flight physical, this would most likely have been the routine start of the 3 month physical exam window. On May 19, Bush asked his superiors how to "get out of coming to drill from now through November" [9]. Flying examinations are normally given only at drill.

On August 1, Bush was grounded, in part (?wholly) because he had failed to complete his flight physical [9].

Comment: Failure to complete a flight physical is a serious matter in the military flying community. Because failure grounds the pilot, the overall readiness of the flying unit decreases. Readiness is the Air National Guard's primary mission.


During his 2000 presidential campaign there were persistent questions about a history of cocaine use. Eventually Bush denied using cocaine since 1992, then quickly extended the cocaine-free period back to 1974 (age 28). NBC reporter David Bloom then noted "that current White House appointees must disclose any drug use since their 18th birthday" [17]. Bush, however, refused to make a disclosure, instead admitting he'd made mistakes in the past, and if voters didn't like that "they can go find somebody else to vote for. That's the wonderful thing about democracy" [17].
Comment: Dr. Zebra concludes Bush used cocaine in his 20s. (Should someone protest that there is no smoking gun, Dr. Zebra reminds them that medicine has its own standards of proof. Consider, for example, a 60 year old smoker with one hour of unrelenting squeezing midline chest discomfort, plus nausea and EKG changes. That is not "an alleged heart attack," it is a heart attack unless proven otherwise. Same thing here.) Cocaine use has clear medical implications. For example, it is associated with elevated risk of acquiring chronic diseases, such as viral hepatitis and sexually transmitted disease. Acutely, it can trigger cardiac or cerebro-vascular catastrophe.

[NCclimber 0]

That photo of Kerry and 19 other Coastal Division 11 Swift boat officers was just another example of his arrogance.

"Hey everybody, check me out with my lifelong friends, who I served with in Vietnam."

It turned out that the majority of those men opposed his candidacy and only three supported him.

Go John go.

[idrankwhat 0]

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AGAIN.. actions speak louder than WORDS

HE SERVED

I wish the FAR RIGHT could GET THAT.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/senate/

So did GWB.

You're right. The records irrefutably show that he once showed up on base to get his teeth cleaned. He also piloted a plane near that treacherous Canadian airspace. Lucky to pull that one off and live to tell the tale. He's my hero. GWB's service is far more patriotic and admirable. Kerry's was reckless. I mean, following orders and going into a warzone. And I know that the only reason that he let those Vietnamese shoot at him was so he could get a medal and a purple heart. Selfish egotistical bastard!
Look, both of them were more priviledged than the average American. One of them showed up and served in a warzone and the other didn't even bother to show up. Personally I don't really care about the service of either one of them but I think it's pretty lousy to attack Kerry on his service and glorify GWB's.

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[NCclimber 0]

And then there was Christmas in Cambodia...

[juanesky 0]

FYI, in order to be a pilot it takes more than a one time show up, which will also include dental cleaning. Don't know if you are aware of it.

I am not in any way shape of form diminishing Kerry's service at all, or making a comparison.

However, I assume you either do not know by personal experience how the military works, it is not up to the soldier where he gets sent, it is up to an upper echelon of command, how to distribute the forces.

He went to flight school, got qualified, and served. The fact that he did not go to "Nam" does not imply he did not serve.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[rushmc 23]

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I believe it would be best for both sides to start listening and stop talking. It is beginning to remind me of a debate in which both sides are trying to win, not through logic and reasoning but by continually talking in hopes that their points are heard and their opponents are not (regardless if their points are valid).

I have done partly what you suggest. In reality though I have given up on this topic in this thread and am just rattling chains. When replies come back to me that are vitriolic and rediculus I reply in kind (without the vitriol)

Sad but true. sorry

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

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FYI, in order to be a pilot it takes more than a one time show up, which will also include dental cleaning. Don't know if you are aware of it.

I am not in any way shape of form diminishing Kerry's service at all, or making a comparison.

However, I assume you either do not know by personal experience how the military works, it is not up to the soldier where he gets sent, it is up to an upper echelon of command, how to distribute the forces.

He went to flight school, got qualified, and served. The fact that he did not go to "Nam" does not imply he did not serve.

I'm familiar with what it takes to be a pilot. I also know that having connections makes a big difference in where you go. And the not serving part was more of a reference to the whole awol debate.....which I really don't want to get into. I've already fallen victim to this thread's intention which is to continue in the great election tradition of not talking about issues of any real substance. Right now we're deep into a discussion that was pointless when it actually did involve the candidates. I posted an (ok, strongly worded) article with lots of specific examples about how this do-nothing-congress that's up for re-election has just plain sucked at their job and how we're getting the shaft because of them. That thread went 15 replies, most of which had nothing to do with the article. Now look at this thread. How many replies so far? This is precisely what the folks on the Right want us doing right now. They don't want us to talk about them so they lure us with sordid candy. And we take a bite. And I'm just as guilty of falling victim. But I think I'm done.

[juanesky 0]

FYI, I am not affiliated to any party, but Kerry's comment really upset me. They were ignorant, and had the audacity to balme it on a partisan issue first, instead of those intended, servicemen in uniforn "stuck in Iraq".

Had he apolgized to US servicemen first, and then blame it on the republicans, I would comprehend his view.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[billvon 3,120]

>But most combat veterans who served with John Kerry in Vietnam see
>him in a very different light.

The thread starts out with people who are DISGUSTED! OUTRAGED! AGHAST! that Kerry would smear servicemen.

Then, a few pages down, we have the same people smearing a serviceman.

SC at its finest.

[rushmc 23]

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>But most combat veterans who served with John Kerry in Vietnam see
>him in a very different light.

The thread starts out with people who are DISGUSTED! OUTRAGED! AGHAST! that Kerry would smear servicemen.

Then, a few pages down, we have the same people smearing a serviceman.

SC at its finest.

Way different. Nice try though, but different.

We can go into the details if you want to.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I think those guys are skirting the Hatch Act and shouldn't have done that and released it so close to an election. I think it's hilarious, though.

I agree, I think that sign is fucking hilarious though.

[billvon 3,120]

>Way different.

Of course. The serviceman you are smearing is a democrat. Heck, I recall a republican candidate calling Tammy Duckworth a "cut and run" democrat. Doesn't matter that she's a vet, or that she got her legs blown off in Iraq - she's a democrat.

[rushmc 23]

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>Way different.

Of course. The serviceman you are smearing is a democrat. Heck, I recall a republican candidate calling Tammy Duckworth a "cut and run" democrat. Doesn't matter that she's a vet, or that she got her legs blown off in Iraq - she's a democrat.

No, as much as you'd like it to be that way I think you know it is not.

I will help you here.

Kerry pulled the Swift boat vets in with his adds.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

>Kerry pulled the Swift boat vets in with his adds.

?? Bob J. Perry, Harold Simmons and T. Boone Pickens, Jr, all major GOP supporters, "pulled in" the Swift Boat political action committee by funding it to the tune of over $2 million - but you knew that. No one believes the Swift Boaters were standing on principle - they were standing on a very big pile of GOP money.

[rushmc 23]

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>Kerry pulled the Swift boat vets in with his adds.

?? Bob J. Perry, Harold Simmons and T. Boone Pickens, Jr, all major GOP supporters, "pulled in" the Swift Boat political action committee by funding it to the tune of over $2 million - but you knew that. No one believes the Swift Boaters were standing on principle - they were standing on a very big pile of GOP money.

these vets came forward when Kerry used the picture the vets asked him to stop using. when he would not they sought help (for money) and got it. that is the way it works.

Now, this same group has a law suit going forward against him that may make him defend some of the bs he said during the campain.

I hope it gets that far

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[sundevil777 102]

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>But most combat veterans who served with John Kerry in Vietnam see
>him in a very different light.

The thread starts out with people who are DISGUSTED! OUTRAGED! AGHAST! that Kerry would smear servicemen.

Then, a few pages down, we have the same people smearing a serviceman.

SC at its finest.

Bill, that is a total load of crap.

Kerry has insulted all of the military, and done it more than once.

The swift boater's campaign ads in '04 insulted just one member of the military.

Huge difference.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Amazon 7]

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The swift boater's campaign ads in '04 insulted just one member of the military.

And the Far right continues their fine tradition of doing the same.. BUT their policies... in how they have funded and supplied our troops are the final insult... How many of the 3000 would be alive if they had provided them with adequate equipment.. and a mission that had some coherence based in truth.

[rushmc 23]

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>Kerry pulled the Swift boat vets in with his adds.

?? Bob J. Perry, Harold Simmons and T. Boone Pickens, Jr, all major GOP supporters, "pulled in" the Swift Boat political action committee by funding it to the tune of over $2 million - but you knew that. No one believes the Swift Boaters were standing on principle - they were standing on a very big pile of GOP money.

Ok, you want to talk about this. What do you think of Soros?

At least the ones you listed are US citizens

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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>Kerry pulled the Swift boat vets in with his adds.

?? Bob J. Perry, Harold Simmons and T. Boone Pickens, Jr, all major GOP supporters, "pulled in" the Swift Boat political action committee by funding it to the tune of over $2 million - but you knew that. No one believes the Swift Boaters were standing on principle - they were standing on a very big pile of GOP money.

Oh, and you generalize once again.

No one believes.........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln