School raids err.. I mean drills

[akarunway 1]

If it was a drill why were the kids searched for one? Man. WTF is this country/world coming too?>
School Safety Drill Upsets Some Parents

WYOMING, Mich. (AP) -- A school safety drill that included police officers in riot gear with weapons has caused concern among some parents who say it was too realistic and frightened some students.

Police in the western Michigan community of Wyoming entered two classrooms at Lee Middle and High School on Thursday and announced there was a threat to the school, The Grand Rapids Press reported.

Students, who were unaware police were conducting a drill, were taken from the classroom into the halls, patted down by officers and asked what they had in their pockets, the newspaper said.

"Some of these kids were so scared, they just about wet their pants," said Marge Bradshaw, a parent with four children in Godfrey-Lee Schools. "I think it's pure wrong that the students and parents were not informed of this."




Officers wore protective gear, including vests and helmets, and carried rifles that were unloaded and marked with colored tape to indicate they were not live weapons, the newspaper said.

Diana Silva, a parent of an eighth-grade student, said the drill went too far.

"My child was with his face to the wall in the hallway of the high school," Silva said. "I certainly don't want anything like this happening to my child."

Principal David Britten said students weren't told ahead of time to make the drill as realistic as possible. Teachers were informed moments before it took place, he said.











"I think this is the best way to do it," Britten said. "We're not looking to scare anyone, but we want a sense of urgency."

But Wyoming Police Chief James Carmody said his officers were not aware students and parents were not told. He said his department will mandate that parents be notified ahead of time in the future.

"The purpose was to show how we will evacuate the classroom, not to assault the classroom," Carmody said.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Gawain 0]

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"Some of these kids were so scared, they just about wet their pants," said Marge Bradshaw, a parent with four children in Godfrey-Lee Schools. "I think it's pure wrong that the students and parents were not informed of this."

Um yeah, that should be the measure of whether or not law enforcement is ready to deal with the oh-so-real threat of deadly violence in schools nowadays.



Parents need to get pissed off and pull on the damn leash to get their kids back on the straight and narrow. If these kids had a bit more fear of their parents, they wouldn't need to have fear of the police. This touchy-feely stuff doesn't teach the kids real lessons in life.

If I got in trouble as a kid, my dad was the force to be rechoned with, not the police.

Kids need to be shown the way until they're ready for college, not given a choice.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,120]

When my parents taught high school in the 60's and 70's, there were drills that got kids under the desks as soon as they saw the flash from the mushroom cloud. Because if they didn't move fast, they knew they'd be cut to ribbons by the flying glass when the windows blew in. Everyone practiced this - high school seniors, 8 year olds, middle school kids. And although the teachers knew what was going on, they didn't announce the drills to the kids beforehand.

I'm not sure that being searched is more scary than drilling how not to be cut to pieces several times a year.

[lawrocket 3]

I recall being subjected to drills all the time in elementary school. The Big One never hit while I was there, and I think that those drills caused me to have emotional distress. Freaking Statutes of Limitations...

Honestly, when did society become such a group of wimps?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[akarunway 1]

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"Some of these kids were so scared, they just about wet their pants," said Marge Bradshaw, a parent with four children in Godfrey-Lee Schools. "I think it's pure wrong that the students and parents were not informed of this."

Um yeah, that should be the measure of whether or not law enforcement is ready to deal with the oh-so-real threat of deadly violence in schools nowadays.



Parents need to get pissed off and pull on the damn leash to get their kids back on the straight and narrow. If these kids had a bit more fear of their parents, they wouldn't need to have fear of the police. This touchy-feely stuff doesn't teach the kids real lessons in life.

If I got in trouble as a kid, my dad was the force to be rechoned with, not the police.

Kids need to be shown the way until they're ready for college, not given a choice.

I agree. I'd get my ass whipped. BUT hit/spank/discipline your kid nowadays and see what happens. Mine called the cops when I spanked him one time. Fuckin cop gave him his card and told him to directly call him if I ever spanked him again. Was a belt to his ass w/ NO MARKS. Wadda ya do?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[AggieDave 6]

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If I got in trouble as a kid, my dad was the force to be rechoned with, not the police.

Its all about how you were raised.

I love and respect my parents. Growing up I viewed the police as people to help. A group of people I could go to when I was in trouble. Yeah, I recieved a couple of traffic citations when I was younger, but I looked at that as "I got caught and was doing that" and went on with life.

Now, growing up I was never worried about the police taking me away or even scaring me. I was worried my parents would/could say something like "you screwed up and I'm disappointed." I wasn't even worried about getting a spanking as a young child, only what I had said previously.

The fear/distrust/dislike of the police seems to be a learned behavior. Just like the trust of the police is a learned behavior. The behavior is learned as a child and is a direct results of the parents. Of course, that's simply my opinion, you may disagree. Not Monday morning QBing the drill discussed in the article, just an overall comment in regards to the previous post about different beliefs in what the police are for and what they do.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[akarunway 1]

"Its all about how you were raised" I got smacked too for saying RAISED. You raise corn you REAR children" Jeesh. Don't you know anything?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[AggieDave 6]

Maybe, but "its all about how you were reared" just doesn't have the right sound to it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[akarunway 1]

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Maybe, but "its all about how you were reared" just doesn't have the right sound to it.

I guess we should go to the Rush thread then Edit: Can I take my GUN w/ me? Or is it my weapon. I forget

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Nightingale 0]

And now, when there is a real emergency, the kids will think it's a drill.

[juanesky 0]

Are you saying drills of that nature are not needed?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[akarunway 1]

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Are you saying drills of that nature are not needed?

I say they are not. Reasons why they are? I guess home schooling is the only way to go in todays society. And live in the freakin middle of nowhere. Teach em to hunt fish and shoot among others

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Nightingale 0]

Quote

Are you saying drills of that nature are not needed?

No. I'm saying that they should've made the kids aware that it was a drill. The point of drills is to learn what to do if something happens. It's practice, and there's nothing wrong with knowing that it's practice, especially the first time, when people don't know what to do, are likely to panic, and are therefore more likely to get hurt.

When I teach someone a karate technique, we walk through it slowly at first, with me giving detailed instructions. Next, we'll speed things up, run them real-time, and work out the bugs. But they know it's practice. They're not fighting for their lives. But, if something does happen to them, and it's real, they'll react as they've been trained. Doesn't matter that they knew it was practice before (as long as they took it seriously, of course), what matters is that they were trained in what to do and when to do it, and in a panic situation, the body reacts with what it's been taught. I can testify to that personally.

What that school did didn't actually teach those kids anything. What they're going to remember is how scared and upset and violated they felt, rather than the procedures they were supposed to be learning. Since they weren't told about the drill this time, next time, they may not take it seriously, because they'll think it's a drill again. I agree that drills are needed, but I disagree with the method in which this particular drill was carried out.

[billvon 3,120]

> And now, when there is a real emergency, the kids will think it's a drill.

That's sort of the point, no?

A drill that is clearly false, and clearly different from reality, is of limited utility. A more realistic drill can be practiced until the person performs well. Then, when they are presented with the real emergency, they will react as trained. If they think it's a drill, all the better - they will do what they have trained to do without panicking.

[Nightingale 0]

But, since the kids weren't trained well the first time, if they think it's a drill the second time, they may not take it seriously, thinking "this is just one of those stupid drills." and goofing off, and getting hurt.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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That's sort of the point, no?

A drill that is clearly false, and clearly different from reality, is of limited utility. A more realistic drill can be practiced until the person performs well. Then, when they are presented with the real emergency, they will react as trained. If they think it's a drill, all the better - they will do what they have trained to do without panicking.

You would be in favour of filling the school with smoke for the next unanounced fire drill?

In all the school shooting emergencies of the last couple of years, how many times did Police get a chance to line up kids in the hallway and do a search?

[Zipp0 1]

The second someone walks in with an uzi and starts shooting people in the head this 'drill' bullshit will go right out the window.

Maybe practice quick evacuations, but lining children up at gunpoint with no knowledge that it is a drill is borderline criminal, and probably unconstitutional.

This did nothing to improve the security of those kids.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[livendive 8]

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The fear/distrust/dislike of the police seems to be a learned behavior. Just like the trust of the police is a learned behavior.

I agree, but would further clarify that neither the trust or mistrust are set in stone by parents. Interactions with police as an adult can swing the sentiment far in the opposite direction from what was originally learned.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 3,120]

>You would be in favour of filling the school with smoke for the
>next unanounced fire drill?

If you could do it cheaply and safely - why not? It could save lives. The issues would be cost and potential hazards of breathing the smoke.

Let's take some other examples.

Would you be in favor of actually hanging someone in a harness and spinning them for the next emergency drills for safety day? Or would standing there in street clothes and pretending to pull imaginary handles be acceptable training?

Would you be in favor of your pilot doing FlightSafety simulator training for engine-out procedures - or would you rather just have him sit at a desk behind a picture of an Otter cockpit and pretend to land without power?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Would you be in favor of actually hanging someone in a harness and spinning them for the next emergency drills for safety day? Or would standing there in street clothes and pretending to pull imaginary handles be acceptable training?

Not quite the same....would you be in favour of purposly packing a mal for a newbie and not tell him?

The issue isn't having the drill. The issue is not informing the children and parents of the drill happening.

Plus, when was the last time a school shooting emergency led to kids being lined up in the hall and being searched?

[jcd11235 0]

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Are you saying drills of that nature are not needed?

Drills of that nature seem to be a bit like having a surprise drill at the bank at five o'clock on a Friday afternoon, so that the police and bank's employees and customers will be prepared in the event of a real robbery.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 3,120]

>would you be in favour of purposly packing a mal for a newbie and not tell him?

If it could be done with no risk? Then yes, I would. As it is, it presents a significant risk, so I wouldn't be in favor of it.

Let's take a better example. Would I be in favor of pushing a student out when they say "CHECK IN!" on their level 7, to ensure they can recover from instability on exit? Yes. And telling them beforehand would sorta lessen the point of the experience.

>The issue isn't having the drill. The issue is not informing the
>children and parents of the drill happening.

Informing children - not needed, and can run counter to the purposes of the drill.

Informing parents - agreed there. No reason not to, and that way they don't worry about it when they see the cops enter the school.

[Zipp0 1]

How about activating the Emergency Broadcast Net and announcing an incoming North Korean missile, and then tell everyone it was a drill 30 minutes later?

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[idrankwhat 0]

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If it was a drill why were the kids searched for one? Man. WTF is this country/world coming too?>
School Safety Drill Upsets Some Parents

Face it. The terrorists have won.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Let's take a better example. Would I be in favor of pushing a student out when they say "CHECK IN!" on their level 7, to ensure they can recover from instability on exit? Yes. And telling them beforehand would sorta lessen the point of the experience.

I understand your point there.

I am still waiting to hear when the police actually had a chance to do this in any of the last school shooting emergencies.