billvon 3,132 #51 October 30, 2006 >there's a widely held belief that homophobia is just (key word >there) about repressed desire. Well, I think it's one cause of homophobia, but certainly not the only cause. >I was just trying to show that we dislike many things because we find > them repulsive or undesirable, not because we're suppressing our > desires. I think you are confusing "dislike" with "arousal." Many people dislike many things; the original post discussed how people who are objectively fairly homophobic are more often aroused by depictions of gay sex. In other words, it merely gives one possible explanation that has roots in actual testing; there are undoubtedly more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #52 October 30, 2006 QuoteNOW members secretly want to wear French Maids outfits to office parties? ACLU members secretly want (who knows what)... The PRO-GUN and ANTI-GUN people want to jello wrestle each other? Not necessarily. It's something that is just often seen. Not always, but often. It's about image. I think American Beauty NAILED it. It's the "We Built This City" example - a song that was such a sell-out that Starship had to do lyrics against selling out. There are PLENTY of people who speak out against what they see as moral indignities. Still others put their money where their mouth is. A pastor does "research" on the horrors of porn by spending 3 hours a day viewing it. "Wow. Guess what I saw today. Unholy." Still others just don't give a fuck who or what people are. Someone is gay? There are those who are ardently anti-gay. Why would they care so much? TO me, it indicates a certaim level of interest in the gay lifestyle. I'll admit that I think the same way about those who hawk the greatness of their lifestyle, the way they are, etc. Bible thumping may be great for one, and not great for others - but why must you take away from your personal relationship with God in your efforts to bring others into it? You may be "fat and proud" but why be proud of that? I understand that with my thiking, people may even question my love for my wife and son since I crow about it so much. I think that's fine. My hypothesis has exceptions and has it's flaws, but it allows me to maintain my general skepticism. So, it works for me. It works for some others. Not everybody. That's my point. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #53 October 30, 2006 As it applies to speakers corner, just look at all the guys outraged by president Clinton having a consensual affair with a member of the opposite sex, above the age of consent and draw your own conclusions. blues jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,602 #54 October 30, 2006 Now that's funny Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #55 October 30, 2006 Quote As it applies to speakers corner, just look at all the guys outraged by president Clinton having a consensual affair with a member of the opposite sex, above the age of consent and draw your own conclusions. Yes, Clinton did get a BJ from an intern (like a teacher/student relationship, or congressman/page relationship - usually that is not considered acceptable). He also had credible evidence accusing him of being a rapist, sexual imposition & harassment, making advances to a woman on the day of her husband's death, having the Arkansas state police help him cheat on his wife...People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stiffler 0 #56 October 30, 2006 how about this then..... i'm a white hetrosexual, who'd both homophobic and a racist and you know what? it's not because i'm a closet faggot or secretly black, it's becasue i'm a cunt and i couldn't give a shit what you think about that ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #57 October 30, 2006 Do you have any proof of that??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #58 October 30, 2006 Others have avoided answering what I think is are a couple reasonable questions: 1) I don't think that a student's sexual orientation is a topic that belongs in the classroom. Is it possible to hold this position without being a homophobe? 2) Is it possible to oppose anything that gay rights advocates want (such as gay marriage) without being vilified with the 'phobe label? Perhaps you or others are willing to take it on.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stiffler 0 #59 October 30, 2006 Quote Do you have any proof of that??? nope, none needed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #60 October 30, 2006 QuoteI don't think that a student's sexual orientation is a topic that belongs in the classroom. But on the flip side rather than accepting that student for who and what they are.. its MUCH MUCH Better for the whole class to make fun of the "faggot" in the real world. That happens in hundreds of classrooms daily.. but in your world is that ok??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stiffler 0 #61 October 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteI don't think that a student's sexual orientation is a topic that belongs in the classroom. But on the flip side rather than accepting that student for who and what they are.. its MUCH MUCH Better for the whole class to make fun of the "faggot" in the real world. That happens in hundreds of classrooms daily.. but in your world is that ok??? sure is Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #62 October 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteI don't think that a student's sexual orientation is a topic that belongs in the classroom. But on the flip side rather than accepting that student for who and what they are.. its MUCH MUCH Better for the whole class to make fun of the "faggot" in the real world. That happens in hundreds of classrooms daily.. but in your world is that ok??? No, it isn't OK with me. Why does it have to be one or the other? You don't think tolerance can be taught without having a particular student being the subject? That is the fallacy of false choice, I think.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #63 October 31, 2006 >I don't think that a student's sexual orientation is a topic that > belongs in the classroom. Is it possible to hold this position without > being a homophobe? Homophobia is an irrational fear of homosexuals. True phobias are better diagnosed by a psychiatrist than by a bunch of people on DZ.com. But in general: If you disagree that any sexuality should be taught in a classroom, that's not a homophobic position. If you fear that homosexuals are "taking over" the classrooms, that might be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #64 October 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteI don't think that a student's sexual orientation is a topic that belongs in the classroom. But on the flip side rather than accepting that student for who and what they are.. its MUCH MUCH Better for the whole class to make fun of the "faggot" in the real world. That happens in hundreds of classrooms daily.. but in your world is that ok??? No, it isn't OK with me. Why does it have to be one or the other? You don't think tolerance can be taught without having a particular student being the subject? That is the fallacy of false choice, I think. Yep. I think it's a lot more efficacious to teach children to be nice to everybody because it's right, rather than teaching them to be nice to each person, one difference at a time.... linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #65 October 31, 2006 QuoteYep. I think it's a lot more efficacious to teach children to be nice to everybody because it's right, rather than teaching them to be nice to each person, one difference at a time.... Oh oh that is leftist PC propoganda.... I mean how will the good ole boys feel about tjhat when you cant call a n$#%# a n$##@ or a fairy a fairy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Stiffler 0 #66 October 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteYep. I think it's a lot more efficacious to teach children to be nice to everybody because it's right, rather than teaching them to be nice to each person, one difference at a time.... Oh oh that is leftist PC propoganda.... I mean how will the good ole boys feel about tjhat when you cant call a n$#%# a n$##@ or a fairy a fairy... why can't you use the word nigger? chris rock can ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #67 October 31, 2006 QuoteOthers have avoided answering what I think is are a couple reasonable questions: 1) I don't think that a student's sexual orientation is a topic that belongs in the classroom. Is it possible to hold this position without being a homophobe? Yes. 2) Is it possible to oppose anything that gay rights advocates want (such as gay marriage) without being vilified with the 'phobe label? . Denying rights or privileges to a specific group due to their sexual orientation seems pretty bigoted to me, but not necessarily homophobic.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #62 October 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteI don't think that a student's sexual orientation is a topic that belongs in the classroom. But on the flip side rather than accepting that student for who and what they are.. its MUCH MUCH Better for the whole class to make fun of the "faggot" in the real world. That happens in hundreds of classrooms daily.. but in your world is that ok??? No, it isn't OK with me. Why does it have to be one or the other? You don't think tolerance can be taught without having a particular student being the subject? That is the fallacy of false choice, I think.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #63 October 31, 2006 >I don't think that a student's sexual orientation is a topic that > belongs in the classroom. Is it possible to hold this position without > being a homophobe? Homophobia is an irrational fear of homosexuals. True phobias are better diagnosed by a psychiatrist than by a bunch of people on DZ.com. But in general: If you disagree that any sexuality should be taught in a classroom, that's not a homophobic position. If you fear that homosexuals are "taking over" the classrooms, that might be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #64 October 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteI don't think that a student's sexual orientation is a topic that belongs in the classroom. But on the flip side rather than accepting that student for who and what they are.. its MUCH MUCH Better for the whole class to make fun of the "faggot" in the real world. That happens in hundreds of classrooms daily.. but in your world is that ok??? No, it isn't OK with me. Why does it have to be one or the other? You don't think tolerance can be taught without having a particular student being the subject? That is the fallacy of false choice, I think. Yep. I think it's a lot more efficacious to teach children to be nice to everybody because it's right, rather than teaching them to be nice to each person, one difference at a time.... linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #65 October 31, 2006 QuoteYep. I think it's a lot more efficacious to teach children to be nice to everybody because it's right, rather than teaching them to be nice to each person, one difference at a time.... Oh oh that is leftist PC propoganda.... I mean how will the good ole boys feel about tjhat when you cant call a n$#%# a n$##@ or a fairy a fairy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stiffler 0 #66 October 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteYep. I think it's a lot more efficacious to teach children to be nice to everybody because it's right, rather than teaching them to be nice to each person, one difference at a time.... Oh oh that is leftist PC propoganda.... I mean how will the good ole boys feel about tjhat when you cant call a n$#%# a n$##@ or a fairy a fairy... why can't you use the word nigger? chris rock can ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #67 October 31, 2006 QuoteOthers have avoided answering what I think is are a couple reasonable questions: 1) I don't think that a student's sexual orientation is a topic that belongs in the classroom. Is it possible to hold this position without being a homophobe? Yes. 2) Is it possible to oppose anything that gay rights advocates want (such as gay marriage) without being vilified with the 'phobe label? . Denying rights or privileges to a specific group due to their sexual orientation seems pretty bigoted to me, but not necessarily homophobic.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #68 October 31, 2006 I will leave it to the good old boys who feel that is necessary to use those kind of hurtfull words to prove they are so much better than everyone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #69 October 31, 2006 >Denying rights or privileges to a specific group due to their sexual >orientation seems pretty bigoted to me. Right. But bigotry is different than a phobia. A phobia is an irrational fear, like a belief that "the gays are taking over!" or "the government is trying to kill me." A bigot is just someone who has no tolerance for any sex/religion/sexual orientation/race/opinion etc other than his own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #70 October 31, 2006 Quote>Denying rights or privileges to a specific group due to their sexual >orientation seems pretty bigoted to me. Right. But bigotry is different than a phobia. A phobia is an irrational fear, like a belief that "the gays are taking over!" or "the government is trying to kill me." A bigot is just someone who has no tolerance for any sex/religion/sexual orientation/race/opinion etc than his own. You're right.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stiffler 0 #71 October 31, 2006 Quote>Denying rights or privileges to a specific group due to their sexual >orientation seems pretty bigoted to me. Right. But bigotry is different than a phobia. A phobia is an irrational fear, like a belief that "the gays are taking over!" or "the government is trying to kill me." A bigot is just someone who has no tolerance for any sex/religion/sexual orientation/race/opinion etc other than his own. would that have made the American governement bigots for having no tolerance for the opinions and way of life of the Soviet Pack back in the 50's and 60's? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #72 October 31, 2006 Right. But bigotry is different than a phobia. A phobia is an irrational fear, like a belief that "the gays are taking over!" or "the government is trying to kill me." Yes. And the answer to one question's likely to be different than the other. But we love to focus on our hatred. It's a lot easier than talking about our fears. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #73 October 31, 2006 QuoteA bigot is just someone who has no tolerance for any sex/religion/sexual orientation/race/opinion etc other than his own. You say no tolerance. That is not true. I have a lot of tolerance, but it stops when it comes to what is a marriage. Those that do not accept polygamists do not get vilified as bigots. Why not? I think this is an example of a really good analogy. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #74 October 31, 2006 QuoteA bigot is just someone who has no tolerance for any sex/religion/sexual orientation/race/opinion etc other than his own. That sure is an extremely broad definition. One must be tolerant of any opinion, etc. in order to not be a bigot by your definition. There is apparently no limit allowed. I don't think you really mean that. Remember that Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act, and instituted the don't ask don't tell policy in the military instead of eliminating the policy of kicking out gays.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #75 October 31, 2006 >One must be tolerant of any opinion, etc. in order to not be a bigot by your definition. Someone who is less tolerant is more of a bigot than someone who is more tolerant. No one's perfect. Also, keep in mind that _tolerance_ is not the same as _acceptance_. You don't have to think Allah is the one true god to tolerate your neighbor's religion. >Remember that Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act . . . . Uh . . so what? >instituted the don't ask don't tell policy in the military . . . Uh - again - so what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
