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kallend 2,151
QuoteQuote
Ok..then why not just shine up the Shuttle really well, if that's all it takes to dissipate the heat?
You are a scientist, I believe. In which case, you know better than that.
Not a scientist, no... and yes, I was being facetious in my original reply.
I don't, however, believe that an antilaser defense would be as simple as mirror coating a missile. I also don't believe said coating would would keep it's effectiveness after the launch and orbit insertion.
OK, if you're not a scientist you are forgiven for your mistaken beliefs.
This is a purely political initiative. It's feel-good, and rewards defense contractors with lots of pork.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 3,120
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>Ok..then why not just shine up the Shuttle really well, if that's all it
>takes to dissipate the heat?
Completely different mechanism.
>I also don't believe said coating would would keep it's effectiveness
>after the launch and orbit insertion.
The warheads in a MIRV are beneath a fairing during launch; they are released (along with decoys) after the boost phase has completed. No ICBM system currently deployed achieves orbital insertion; they are purely ballistic until re-entry.
(I'm pretty sure no one really cares, but I figured I'd put it out there.)
>takes to dissipate the heat?
Completely different mechanism.
>I also don't believe said coating would would keep it's effectiveness
>after the launch and orbit insertion.
The warheads in a MIRV are beneath a fairing during launch; they are released (along with decoys) after the boost phase has completed. No ICBM system currently deployed achieves orbital insertion; they are purely ballistic until re-entry.
(I'm pretty sure no one really cares, but I figured I'd put it out there.)
mnealtx 0
QuoteThe warheads in a MIRV are beneath a fairing during launch; they are released (along with decoys) after the boost phase has completed. No ICBM system currently deployed achieves orbital insertion; they are purely ballistic until re-entry
Agreed - but the SIQ (scientist in question) was talking about mirror coating the outside of the missile, not the re-entry vehicles.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
champu 1
QuoteYeah, this is 3.5 billion for more Star Wars research on a technology we already know is easily circumvented.
quote from the article:QuotePhilip Coyle, the Pentagon's chief weapons tester under former President Bill Clinton and now at the private Center for Defense Information, said in an e-mail reply to Reuters that its real effectiveness appeared doubtful.
"If a laser can be developed with enough power to penetrate the atmosphere and still be lethal once it reaches a target, an enemy would only need to put a reflective coating on the outside of its missiles to bounce off the laser beam, making it harmless,"
That's all well and good, but the task of developing such a reflective coating is being trivialized in this evaluation. Just like, "all you need to do to make a nuclear bomb is get some plutonium and squeeze it."
kallend 2,151
QuoteQuoteYeah, this is 3.5 billion for more Star Wars research on a technology we already know is easily circumvented.
quote from the article:QuotePhilip Coyle, the Pentagon's chief weapons tester under former President Bill Clinton and now at the private Center for Defense Information, said in an e-mail reply to Reuters that its real effectiveness appeared doubtful.
"If a laser can be developed with enough power to penetrate the atmosphere and still be lethal once it reaches a target, an enemy would only need to put a reflective coating on the outside of its missiles to bounce off the laser beam, making it harmless,"
That's all well and good, but the task of developing such a reflective coating is being trivialized in this evaluation. Just like, "all you need to do to make a nuclear bomb is get some plutonium and squeeze it."
But the folks whose missiles we worry about have already shown that they know how to get plutonium and squeeze it. It's not like it's being given as a 6th grade science fair project.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
champu 1
QuoteBut the folks whose missiles we worry about have already shown that they know how to get plutonium and squeeze it. It's not like it's being given as a 6th grade science fair project.
Perhaps nuclear proliferation was a bad example as a great deal of the details behind "plutonium squeezing" are probably out there. Going from a general understanding of how they work to a functioning prototype doesn't constitute quite the leap I was getting at. I was trying to say that actually developing a material that could:
-provide sufficient defense against a laser weapon system throughout the boost phase
-be applied to long range missiles
-be incredibly light weight
-be even remotely cost effective (even for a military)
-not significantly impact flight characteristics
is not something I would sum up as, "only needing to put a reflective coating on the outside of its missiles." Coyle sounds like you'd pick the stuff up at your local Home Depot and be in business.
I'm just as skeptical as the next guy about any weapon system developed in the open, doubly so of one that has been accompanied by as many press releases as ABL has, but I think "mirrored missiles" is a pretty weak argument against the pursuit of such a system.
billvon 3,120
>only needing to put a reflective coating on the outside of its missiles."
At one end of the spectrum, white paint works. The total laser energy absorbed initially is directly related to the absorbtion spectra of the target, and paint alone can easily change that by a factor of 10.
At the other end, specular reflectors can get you another few orders of magnitude, but they're expensive and heavy. So you have a wide variety of options - and some are really as easy as slapping some paint on the missile.
At one end of the spectrum, white paint works. The total laser energy absorbed initially is directly related to the absorbtion spectra of the target, and paint alone can easily change that by a factor of 10.
At the other end, specular reflectors can get you another few orders of magnitude, but they're expensive and heavy. So you have a wide variety of options - and some are really as easy as slapping some paint on the missile.
champu 1
Quote...At one end of the spectrum, white paint... ...At the other end, specular reflectors... ...So you have a wide variety of options...
Absolutely. None of which meet the five requirements I laid out.
ABL is a very expensive science project. Is it really necessary? Is the F-35 really necessary? Is JWST really necessary? I don't know, but one of my pet peeves is the haphazard mingling of technical and political arguments for or against these kinds of things.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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