Western naval forces in the Gulf

[akarunway 1]

And it isn't the fuckin Gulf of Mexico for all you thread title arguers >WTF?http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-10-27T151907Z_01_L27837086_RTRUKOC_0_US-ENERGY-SAUDI-THREAT.xml&src=rss&rpc=22 AND. Why the fuck should we be defending the Sauds? Bush's bud's maybe?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[BillyVance 35]

I'd say protecting the oil terminal would be in our best interests. Keeps the price of gas from going up again.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[StreetScooby 5]

GWB is pushing, hard. As he should. This situation is far from black and white. Shit is happening. Big time. And Iran is behind this current flare up.

We've already destroyed Iran's "navy" once, in the 90s. Now, Iran has their own version of the cruise missle. Iran and the Saudis are from two different factions of Islam. They don't like each other, at all.

Islam really needs to have some form of "reformation". Badly.

We are all engines of karma

[jcd11235 0]

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I'd say protecting the oil terminal would be in our best interests. Keeps the price of gas from going up again.

Alternately, we could invest those funds in alternate energy sources, which would alleviate our dependence upon foreign oil.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[akarunway 1]

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I'd say protecting the oil terminal would be in our best interests. Keeps the price of gas from going up again.

Whos intersest? Bush and Co.?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[StreetScooby 5]

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Alternately, we could invest those funds in alternate energy sources, which would alleviate our dependence upon foreign oil.

And, in the mean time, what do we do?

We are all engines of karma

[Gawain 0]

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I'd say protecting the oil terminal would be in our best interests. Keeps the price of gas from going up again.

Alternately, we could invest those funds in alternate energy sources, which would alleviate our dependence upon foreign oil.

Not at the cost of the world economy though.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

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And it isn't the fuckin Gulf of Mexico for all you thread title arguers >WTF?http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-10-27T151907Z_01_L27837086_RTRUKOC_0_US-ENERGY-SAUDI-THREAT.xml&src=rss&rpc=22 AND. Why the fuck should we be defending the Sauds? Bush's bud's maybe?

If you read this related article, you'd see it's not just the US: http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-10-27T180003Z_01_L27837086_RTRUKOC_0_US-ENERGY-SAUDI-THREAT.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsArt-L3-Top+NewsNews-4

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[shropshire 0]

<>

Drive smaller cars, maybe and tax the shite out of people who drive their egos around in big 4x4s.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jcd11235 0]

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Alternately, we could invest those funds in alternate energy sources, which would alleviate our dependence upon foreign oil.

And, in the mean time, what do we do?

[sarcasm]You're right. Since we can't instantaneously wean ourselves off foreign oil, we should give up the idea of ever having an alternate energy source.[/sarcasm]

Actually, the US is not void of their own oil. As the price of foreign oil increases, it becomes more economically feasible to pump our own. Additionally, we have strategic reserves that can help with supply. Plus, we would still have access to some foreign oil during a transition period.

Much of the necessary technology for alternative fuels already exists. For example, the diesel engine was designed to run on vegetable oil. Carbohydrates are a perfectly acceptable replacement for hydrocarbons. I would much rather put money in the American farmer's pocket than give it to Big Oil or their stockholders.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Gawain 0]

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<>

Drive smaller cars, maybe and tax the shite out of people who drive their egos around in big 4x4s.

That is not an immediate term solution. A century of oil dependence will take at least have that long to make a measurable difference.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[shropshire 0]

Hi G,

I think that it is an short term solution... If, on average we drive cars that do more that 2 times the m.p.g then the oil will last longer and we thus have longer to find a solution. Getting rid of the large engined kiddie carriers can be done really quickly - hit the owners in the pocket, they'll get the messages soon enough.

Mr & Mrs Average do NOT need thirty cars, they have just become used to having them.


.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[StreetScooby 5]

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Actually, the US is not void of their own oil.

Yep. Our corporations (read capitalist entities) are pushing miles down through blue water now.

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As thee the price of foreign oil increases, it becomes more economically feasible to pump our own.

Clearly, you're a smart guy.

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Additionally, we have strategic reserves that can help with supply.

That's for the military, and only the military. IMO, that's a good thing.

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Plus, we would still have access to some foreign oil during a transition period.

You're right.

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Much of the necessary technology for alternative fuels already exists. For example, the diesel engine was designed to run on vegetable oil. Carbohydrates are a perfectly acceptable replacement for hydrocarbons.

Does it work?
Is it cost effective?
If it is, why aren't we all using it, NOW?

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I would much rather put money in the American farmer's pocket than give it to Big Oil or their stockholders.

Personally, I'd rather put money in my own pocket.

We are all engines of karma

[NCclimber 0]

I wonder how much vegetable oil would cost if we all needed it to fuel our cars.

Currently, the ethanol equivalent of 1 gallon of unleaded gas costs about $4.50.

I paid $2.17/gallon, yesterday.

[Gawain 0]

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Hi G,

I think that it is an short term solution... If, on average we drive cars that do more that 2 times the m.p.g then the oil will last longer and we thus have longer to find a solution. Getting rid of the large engined kiddie carriers can be done really quickly - hit the owners in the pocket, they'll get the messages soon enough.

Mr & Mrs Average do NOT need thirty cars, they have just become used to having them.

The argument could be made that we save our assets to be last. That hols a long term benefit to our economy too. Also, people pay gas-guzzler taxes on many vehicles. To avoid this, the auto makers provide plenty of feasible alternatives.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[jcd11235 0]

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I wonder how much vegetable oil would cost if we all needed it to fuel our cars.

Currently, the ethanol equivalent of 1 gallon of unleaded gas costs about $4.50.

I paid $2.17/gallon, yesterday.

The costs of ethanol production are distorted by both sides of the argument. One side wants to ignore some of the costs of production, such as fuel for tractors, etc. The other side wants to ignore other valuable byproducts that can be obtained from the crops in addition to the fuel oil, which offsets more of the cost. Consequently, we really don't have access to realistic numbers with respect for the cost. Plus, the more bio-fuels are used, the more likely the "refining" costs will come down.

Also, we do not include the cost of defending our access to foreign oil in the price of gas. Our access to cheap gas is essentially subsidized with tax dollars, so we don't have accurate numbers regarding the cost of petroleum based fuel, either.

It is likely that the costs are actually pretty similar.

Personally I would be willing to pay a little more for the biofuel.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[BillyVance 35]

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I'd say protecting the oil terminal would be in our best interests. Keeps the price of gas from going up again.

Whos intersest? Bush and Co.?

Ours... gas prices hits us all in the wallet.

That said, I sure wish I'd bought stock in ExxonMobil... those bastards are getting rich off of us...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[StreetScooby 5]

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those bastards are getting rich off of us...

You're wrong.

I worked at Exxon for 6 years. Margins for refining products are single digits, and have been for DECADES. That is NOT where Exxon makes their money.

While I was working for Exxon, there was a strategic decision made - all development money was moving upstream (i.e., getting the oil out of the ground). Our Congress had made it too expensive too make money downstream (i.e., making gasoline).

Exxon is one of the leaders in upstream technology. The world market for oil is such that Exxon is reaping the benefits of a decision made YEARS ago.

People, this is capitalism at its best.

We are all engines of karma

[NCclimber 0]

Here's one way to curb consumption. It's not a long term solution, but it would cause us to cut our consumption.

Give each licensed driver an annual gasoline credit of 1000 gallons, for which they pay current taxes. Once they go purchase 1000 gallons, charge additional taxes, on a rising scale.

Set up a different arrangement for commercial vehicles, based on use. Salesmen with lots of samples, like clothing reps, get more additional gallons than someone with very little. Set up a fair system for everyone from insurance salesman to trucker.

Hey Amazon,
Is this right wing enough for you?

[shropshire 0]

Or invest more in a sensible/viable public transport infrastructure... Provide incentives for using mass transit (way more People per Gallon) and kick the shit out of the wasters - And move more product by Rail.
Make it far too difficult and inconvienient for people to drive their own [mostly empty] vehicles into cities.
Make the streets safer for kids to cycle to school.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[NCclimber 0]

The problem with that, for the most part, we live in relatively low density areas.... and we are spoiled about getting around on out own schedule.

[shropshire 0]

Yeap some but not all.
The plan wont work unless you work the plan.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 2,151]

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Here's one way to curb consumption. It's not a long term solution, but it would cause us to cut our consumption.

Give each licensed driver an annual gasoline credit of 1000 gallons, for which they pay current taxes. Once they go purchase 1000 gallons, charge additional taxes, on a rising scale.

Set up a different arrangement for commercial vehicles, based on use. Salesmen with lots of samples, like clothing reps, get more additional gallons than someone with very little. Set up a fair system for everyone from insurance salesman to trucker.

Hey Amazon,
Is this right wing enough for you?

Congestion --> consumption --> pollution, and traffic lights (and other poor traffic management strategies) --> congestion.

Much of our congestion is engineered in by poor traffic management practices.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[freethefly 6]

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Drive smaller cars, maybe and tax the shite out of people who drive their egos around in big 4x4s.

When the price at the pump pushed past $3.00 you saw alot of economy cars on the street but, no sooner did the price go down the big guzzlers were back on the streets. What gets me is the number of huge 4x4s that you see running around in the cities never to ever be used off road or on a farm. Soccer moms and pencil pushers stoking their egos while depleating resource. Last time I went to the city I saw more oversize trucks than I do out here in the country.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Amazon 7]

I have one of them big 4x4.. it is usually dirty with mud from dirt roads here in the mountains....It has dents in it even though its only a 2003... haulin firewood can do that....I also use it to tow my 25' motorboat to the coast.. and just hauled my sloop back here to paint it as well..

Oh.. its a diesel.. and gets about 22 MPG