Avg MPG, 1980 and Today...a whopping 7% increase!!

[Calvin19 0]

you know what this is?

its all the fucking HUGE SUVs driven by the small 90lb mothers and buisneswomen trying to compansatefor their body size. it all the cowboy wannabe HUGE truck ford and chevy drivers also trying to compansate for their, um, whatever it is they lack.

thi has been said before, but hey, its a free country. who cares about their children? or Earth?

seriously, I know I dont care. I think its hopeless.

[masterblaster72 0]

Turns out that being a larder doesn't help with gas mileage

Weight gain means lower gas mileage

Reason #20001 to lose weight: save money on gas.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Scoop 0]

OK, I got on this a bit late but coming from an engineering and specifically performance engine building/modification background I can say that it becomes harder to make real gains once you get to a certain point.

Manufacturing techniques obviously have to be cost effective else they won't be able to sell the product.

The performance and therefore efficiency you can achieve out of an engine is a steep curve. You get to a certain point and unless your prepared to pay out big bucks for specialist equipment and machining your just not going to get it.

I again refer to power as it is similar theory. Start with engine with 100BHP, overbore it, new pistons, lightweight rods, machined crankshaft etc you can achieve a much better figure. Say 160 BHP, now once you already got this high platform its difficult to achieve anymore gains without fine adjustment and mega investment. Something which we as consumers dont want to pay for.

I guess what I'm saying is an engine is just a hunk of rotating parts and a means of moving air/fuel around and creating rotary energy. Once you got to a nice efficient design its hard to better it. Cars have improved considerably aerodynamically though which helps. (theres you 7% - lol)

Could you invent a more efficient means of driving a vehicle? The wheel is so outdated nowadays, but its a great design that can't be bettered. Same principle.

7% more efficient might not sound alot but I bet if you get data on the emissions on fuel in the 80s compared to now we putting out alot cleaner waste product. Catalytic converters and the removal of leaded fuel for a starter
Also its not fashionable to have an economical car that does 60MPG and normally not fun either.

[jakee 1,595]

Quote

Start with engine with 100BHP, overbore it, new pistons, lightweight rods, machined crankshaft etc you can achieve a much better figure. Say 160 BHP, now once you already got this high platform its difficult to achieve anymore gains without fine adjustment and mega investment. Something which we as consumers dont want to pay for.

I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle.

Making fine tuning and adjustments on one single engine is going to be very expensive. Researching fine tuning and adjustment and other R&D on an engine with a projected run of 100,000 or more units... that's cost effective!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle.

Making fine tuning and adjustments on one single engine is going to be very expensive. Researching fine tuning and adjustment and other R&D on an engine with a projected run of 100,000 or more units... that's cost effective!

no, he meant exactly for that. There are exotic ways (esp with new materials) to make lighter more efficient engines, but most of the gains were made a while ago, so you're dealing with the tradeoffs I already talked about. If people are willing to buy hummers, they're not going to spend an extra grand for 2mpg gained.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I was listening to Car Talk a month or three ago, and they proposed a $3 per gallon gasoline tax, implemented at a rate of $.50 per year over six years, to reduce unnecessary fuel consumption in the US. I believe their idea included exemptions for the first x number of gallons consumed each year, with additional exemptions for those that could justify using more fuel.

if it could be implemented, it would deliver the desire results. But it's too easy to cheat, and any exemptions for the first X gallons only encourages people to buy more cars.

I fear the only answer comes from an unpopular move like Carter's 55 limit. Flat out ban vehicles like Hummers after 2009. Or slap a nasty enough sin tax to make it the same. 10 grand?

Instead the Feds propose giving carpool access to hybrids that get a mere 25% gain over their gas only counterparts. Such vision!

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

But it's too easy to cheat, and any exemptions for the first X gallons only encourages people to buy more cars.

I could be mistaken, but I believe the exemptions were per household or per capita. I'm not positive though, as I'm going from memory of a radio show I heard a while back.

Your sin tax idea is another idea I think has some merit.

However it happens, something has to happen to slow unnecessary consumption.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[willard 0]

The last 30+ years have seen a lot of change in technology. What in 1974 seemed to be nothing more than a flight of fancy and "Buck Rogers" tech is today's reality. Motor vehicle powerplant design has not been left behind in the technology race. Where we once felt that there was no sustitute for cubic inches when seeking performance gains we now know that is not the case. F1 engines prove that point, making 750 hp with a 2.5 liter naturally aspirated engine. We, as consumers, had a choice to make. But being the egomaniacs we all are we chose speed and accelleration over fuel economy. The infamous Hemi Barracuda would struggle to keep it's reputation intact when matched against the avarage sedan coming out of the dealers lots these days. And that's just on a drag strip. Put them head-to-head in accelleration, braking, and handling and there would be no contest.
Don't blame the manufacturers. They are only following good business sense by providing what the consumers want. Several have tried in the past to shift the focus to cars that get above average fuel economy only to find themselves treading water trying to survive.
As a final thought, I was passed on the highway a few weeks ago by a Ford Expedition. I was cruising at 70 in my Ford Focus, he passed me doing 80-85. I couldn't help but notice the sticker on the rear of that beast as he drove away...."No Drilling In The Arctic".

[Calvin19 0]

Quote

...... I was passed on the highway a few weeks ago by a Ford Expedition. I was cruising at 70 in my Ford Focus, he passed me doing 80-85. I couldn't help but notice the sticker on the rear of that beast as he drove away...."No Drilling In The Arctic".

Like I said, Its hopeless. Dont have kids, and burn what fuel you can while your alive. thats what im doing.

OR

granted, once fossil fuel is gone in the next 20-50 years, we will have to have much better alternative energy tranportation. airplanes are out, helis are out, because it is near impossible to power such machines on anything but combustion. and after those are gone, i dono, i have no reason to stay alive.

I dono if we will be able to make Nylon products without raw oil, i dono if recycling can make good parachutes or paragliders.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

granted, once fossil fuel is gone in the next 20-50 years, we will have to have much better alternative energy tranportation. airplanes are out, helis are out, because it is near impossible to power such machines on anything but combustion. and after those are gone, i dono, i have no reason to stay alive.

I dono if we will be able to make Nylon products without raw oil, i dono if recycling can make good parachutes or paragliders.

Anything that can be produced from hydrocarbons can be made from carbohydrates.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!