China and Russia get Shy about DPRK

[jcd11235 0]

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These are unrelated issues, and don't affect my opinion that we should not meddle with their nuclear program.

By that logic, our nuke program is an unrelated issue and you should not use it in your arguments.

The question is: Do you REALLY want NK to have nukes?

Aside from pointing out that only one country has ever used a nuclear weapon against another country, I have not mentioned our nuclear program. Nice attempt to misrepresent my argument again.

As I stated before, I do not care if NK has a nuclear weapon program.

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[Trent 0]

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Aside from pointing out that only one country has ever used a nuclear weapon against another country, I have not mentioned our nuclear program. Nice attempt to misrepresent my argument again.

What does that have to do with NK having nukes? Or were you just mentioning it to get the argument on terms you can deal with?

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As I stated before, I do not care if NK has a nuclear weapon program.

Would you care if every time Lil Kim needed some attention that he threatened to fire off some of his nukes? Would that bother you? It's not hard to imagine him doing that over and over again based on his psychosis and past behavior.

If you're okay with letting NK have the bomb, would you be okay with us helping out SK, Japan, and Taiwan get them too? Or do you just not care about NK having the bomb because they're a thorn in the side of the US (and in reality, most of the world)?

Oh, hello again!

[jcd11235 0]

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What does that have to do with NK having nukes? Or were you just mentioning it to get the argument on terms you can deal with?

Nothing, which is why I was wondering why you brought it up.

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Would you care if every time Lil Kim needed some attention that he threatened to fire off some of his nukes? Would that bother you? It's not hard to imagine him doing that over and over again based on his psychosis and past behavior.

If you're okay with letting NK have the bomb, would you be okay with us helping out SK, Japan, and Taiwan get them too? Or do you just not care about NK having the bomb because they're a thorn in the side of the US (and in reality, most of the world)?

I'm sure you have access to his medical records to support your claim of his psychosis, right? Or, do you just not understand what psychosis means?

I would not want the US to interfere with SK or Japan obtaining nuclear weapons, but I think China already has them.

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[Trent 0]

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Nothing, which is why I was wondering why you brought it up.

I brought up the US having used atomic bombs before? Really? Where? My apologies for not making that abundantly clear to the point you couldn't avoid that fact.

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I'm sure you have access to his medical records to support your claim of his psychosis, right? Or, do you just not understand what psychosis means?

psy·cho·sis (s-kss) from American Heritage Stedman's Medical Dictionary
n. pl. psy·cho·ses (-sz)
A severe mental disorder, with or without organic damage, characterized by derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal social functioning.

Now, I know that I'm not as smart as you must be... but that describes a lot of Lil' Kim's behavior that I've seen. If you have to ask for examples, you just don't know enough about it I guess.

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I would not want the US to interfere with SK or Japan obtaining nuclear weapons, but I think China already has them.

Well we know where you stand I guess... pro-proliferation, Taiwan = China, NK should have nukes, the US is bad. What next?

Oh, hello again!

[jcd11235 0]

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that describes a lot of Lil' Kim's behavior that I've seen. If you have to ask for examples, you just don't know enough about it I guess.

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I would not want the US to interfere with SK or Japan obtaining nuclear weapons, but I think China already has them.

Well we know where you stand I guess... pro-proliferation, Taiwan = China, NK should have nukes, the US is bad. What next?

Are you tight with "lil' Kim? Is he your homey? You guys hit the bars together? Or are you just his personal psychiatrist? How many of his actions have actually witnessed?

I didn't say the US was bad. I said they are the only country armed with nuclear weapons that has ever used those weapons (twice even) against another country.

I will say that US foreign policy is terrible, IMO, and worse since W took office.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Gawain 0]

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but they are showing themselves to be obstacles in the wrealm of dealing with Iran and DPRK.

Question for you Gawain -
If we started taking out leaders, how long before our leaders would be taken out? Just a ball park figure, if you have one.

Honestly, I don't know. I do know that despite EO 12333, which takes us out of the business of state sponsored assassination, there have been organized plots against our own leadership.

We've already taken out leaders, not by assassination, but they're gone nonetheless. Rescinding EO 12333 could allow the US to tacitly approve more "direct" action per se, but it would require the "retirement" of more than one individual in the leadership of DPRK.

Either way, I'm guessing, as I don't know the logistics involved in such a clandestine operation.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Frenchy68 0]

Great debate you guys.But if I may contribute...

Carry on...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Trent 0]

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Are you tight with "lil' Kim? Is he your homey? You guys hit the bars together? Or are you just his personal psychiatrist?

Funny what people do when they know their argument is shit.

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How many of his actions have actually witnessed?

So I guess WW2 never happened then because we weren't there to see it, right? If you can't take the time to read up on this dictator and his kookiness we don't have much to discuss.

Oh, hello again!

[kallend 2,182]

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Aside from pointing out that only one country has ever used a nuclear weapon against another country, I have not mentioned our nuclear program. Nice attempt to misrepresent my argument again.

What does that have to do with NK having nukes? Or were you just mentioning it to get the argument on terms you can deal with?

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As I stated before, I do not care if NK has a nuclear weapon program.

Would you care if every time Lil Kim needed some attention that he threatened to fire off some of his nukes? Would that bother you? It's not hard to imagine him doing that over and over again based on his psychosis and past behavior.

If you're okay with letting NK have the bomb, would you be okay with us helping out SK, Japan, and Taiwan get them too? Or do you just not care about NK having the bomb because they're a thorn in the side of the US (and in reality, most of the world)?

Given OUR propensity to invade other nations that we don't approve of, I am not surprised in the slightest that Kim wants nukes. I don't recall that Kim has ever ordered an invasion of another sovereign nation.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rickjump1 0]

Why would we ever consider invading NK? Why not airdrop food and seed after we get rid of junior and his nuke weapons or the material to build them.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[jcd11235 0]

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Funny what people do when they know their argument is shit.

You mean like accusing others of being psychopaths? That's what I thought too. If you had had a relevant argument you would have offered it.

[Trent 0]

Hahaha, pathetic. Go do some reading, form an opinion of your own. Maybe you can find a better word to describe the lil' fella's behavior. When/if you actually do some reading on it, come back to me so we can start a semantic debate on the word you chose instead of talking about why or why not NK should have nukes and how the world should deal with it.

Awesome!

Oh, hello again!

[Gawain 0]

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Given OUR propensity to invade other nations that we don't approve of, I am not surprised in the slightest that Kim wants nukes. I don't recall that Kim has ever ordered an invasion of another sovereign nation.

Kim's dad did, and I bet we might agree that in this case, the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree. Korea's recent history isn't as agressive, but throughout its history, Korea had amassed quite a bit of territory, well into China.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[jcd11235 0]

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Hahaha, pathetic. Go do some reading, form an opinion of your own. Maybe you can find a better word to describe the lil' fella's behavior. When/if you actually do some reading on it, come back to me so we can start a semantic debate on the word you chose instead of talking about why or why not NK should have nukes and how the world should deal with it.

Once again, attacking me instead of offering a credible argument. That seems to be a pattern with you.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Gawain 0]

Aaannnnyyywaaaaaayyyyyyyy...

To further my observation, it now appears the China and Russia may delay a UNSC resolution, despite the fact the US worked with them to find middle ground.

I see this as a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for the US. When you don't utilize the UN forum, we get yelled at and blocked. When we do, we get yelled at and blocked.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[zoobrothertom 5]

"Only one country has ever used such a weapon on another country, however." I love it when I hear this one! Study up on a little history and do the math. Using the bomb on Japan actually saved many more hundreds of thousands of lives that it took (if not millions!). Both Japanese and Allied casualties would have been in the millions if the Allies had tried to take Japan with conventional weapons.

I have lived and worked in S. Korea for almost 5 years. On a daily basis, the NK press threatens to engulf their enemies in a sea of fire. Again, study a little history of the Korean War and the strategic planning of Senior Kim along with Chinese & Russian participation. It was almost WW III. It will also help you ( or many folks here) understand the historic reasons for the current hesitation of Russia & China.

Now back to your regular programming....

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I'm back in the USA!!

[rickjump1 0]

Ok, I'm gonna guess why the hesitation of China and Russia: It's pay back time for all those bad things we have done to them during the cold war, nobody wants hungry refugees, or maybe the reunification of North and South? EDITED TO ADD: A lot of Americans don't realize it, but South Korea had two infantry divisions and one marine division(I think), fighting in Vietnam. The ROKs were ruthless, ass-kicking troops when they dealt with the NVA and VC. Maybe this is what the Chinese fear. Funny though, the Chinese did cross into North Vietnam after we pulled out of the South. The NVA promptly kicked their asses and the Chinese withdrew.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.