North Koreans test the nuke

[Steel 0]

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>I am still thinking the best solution is to arm Japan . . . .

Arm the only country we have ever dropped nuclear weapons on . . . with nuclear weapons?

With the administration we have now, that would actually make a sick sort of sense.

We bombed them when they were loaded with wacko Kamikazees that were attacking us. They have become very civilized since then and therefore have learned how much better their life can be for their citizens through hard work.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[lauras 0]

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we the U.S. would wipe North Korea off the map.

Not necessarily a reply to you, Steel, but to the "let's drop a nuke on North Korea" argument.

I have a serious problem with this, especially considering my parents along with many other family members live in a northern suburb of Seoul and you can drive to the DMZ in about 30 minutes from their home. It's like dropping a nuclear bomb on Tallahasee and expecting the folks in Gainesville to be just fine and dandy. Not the most practical solution if you care at all about innocent lives.

I haven't heard a single politician bring up the proximity of North & South Korea when they discuss the idea of nuking PyongYang. The two countries are located on the SAME FUCKING PENINSULA and it's about the size of Utah. Does this only occur to the people that actually live in Korea??

[rehmwa 2]

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I disagree. Japan has the second highest GNP in the world, second ......bzzz bzzzzz bzzzzz ...en in the top five GNP's.

I was speaking tongue in cheek with how we seem to situationally 'assist' countries to fix one problem (maybe the right thing to do at the time or not, I don't know) and then tehy become trouble later.

I think we should take all the religiously extreme activists (including nutjob liberals and conservatives in addition to christian and muslim and anti-religious fanatics - the FANATICs only) plus all the national level politicians from the top 5 countries, and secretly move them into NoKo via parachute drops - rigs are optional.

I think Europe would like to export a lot of theirs. We sure would, too.

The resulting chaos should tie up the country for decades as wacko leader after wacko leader stages coup after coup while the political types spend the country into oblivion.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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Does this only occur to the people that actually live in Korea??

It's probably more intuitive to them. And people in Tennessee and Kentucky.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Steel 0]

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we the U.S. would wipe North Korea off the map.

Not necessarily a reply to you, Steel, but to the "let's drop a nuke on North Korea" argument.

I have a serious problem with this, especially considering my parents along with many other family members live in a northern suburb of Seoul and you can drive to the DMZ in about 30 minutes from their home. It's like dropping a nuclear bomb on Tallahasee and expecting the folks in Gainesville to be just fine and dandy. Not the most practical solution if you care at all about innocent lives.

I haven't heard a single politician bring up the proximity of North & South Korea when they discuss the idea of nuking PyongYang. The two countries are located on the SAME FUCKING PENINSULA and it's about the size of Utah. Does this only occur to the people that actually live in Korea??

Thats certainly a valid point. But just as well, I don't think that we (the U.S.) needs nuclear weapons to destroy North Korea, (in the event that they were to Nuke us first). We didn't need to use nukes in Afganistan.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[billvon 3,120]

>We bombed them when they were loaded with wacko Kamikazees
> that were attacking us. They have become very civilized since then
> and therefore have learned how much better their life can be for
> their citizens through hard work.

Those people and that culture are still there. (Remember - we didn't bomb mud huts; we bombed industrial centers rivaling our own.) Today, that same drive and determination have allowed them to become one of the leaders in the high tech manufacturing world. We think that's great because they are currently our pals - but believe me, we would not want to be on the receiving end of their ire.

Germany and Japan worked incredibly hard during WWII. Germany was working on the A-10, an adaptation of the V-2 that would have increased its range to 2500 miles, carrying a bomb payload of 2500 lbs. They were also close to developing a skip bomber - a bomber that would leave the atmosphere and be able to drop bombs thousands of miles away. They were also fairly close to developing nuclear weapons.

Japan was also doing some pretty impressive stuff. The Japanese Zero was faster than our best fighter at the time, climbed faster, was more manueverable and carried more armament. And they churned out 11,000 of the things - many of them while we were bombing their cities.

Since Japan and Germany were our enemies, they are called 'wackos' and 'lunatics.' Since we won, we get to decide what to call them. But claiming that they just discovered 'hard work' - well, you can ignore history, but I think learning from it makes a lot more sense.

I was in a store a few years back, watching Pearl Harbor on a massive TV. Two older men were standing there watching the movie.

"Hard to believe that my father was there," said one.

"Even harder to believe we're watching a movie about it on a Japanese TV," said the other.

The people who had the drive and the vision to build a better fighter than the US have taken that same drive and used it to produce that plasma screen TV. Don't deceive yourself into thinking that it's because they "discovered" how great the US work ethic was. It's because they've had it all along.

[lauras 0]

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Does this only occur to the people that actually live in Korea??

It's probably more intuitive to them. And people in Tennessee and Kentucky.

One would think so, but it doesn't appear that that's a consideration when the "let's drop a bomb" argument is bandied about. On another note, the South Korean media (both conservative & liberal) is going nuts about how eager the US is to move on to North Korea as a new battlefield now that Iraq has turned out to be such a winner.

[Frenchy68 0]

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I am still thinking the best solution is to arm Japan and let them take care of the situation. I am sure they won't hold back.

Not a chance in a million years. The US would never do this, as they know it would mean China AND South Korea would be extremely pissed off. Neither country has forgotten nor forgiven what happened in the first half of the 20th century, and still abhor great dislike for Japan. Japan has never apologized for its actions, and some fear that arming Japan would take us back to where we were 100 years ago. China would step up its military arsenal (which already quite impressive), then so would its neighbours (Russia, Pakistan and India). South Korea would certainly develop its own as quickly as possible.
Good times...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[livetofall 0]

totally disagree and this comes from a buy american redneck union man. Japan has been about the only country to bring their work HERE whereas all our big coroprations take our work away. I had BIIIIIG arguements when i got an MR2 back in 96 with guys. I asked what is worse...enemy or traitor? fact is while toyota was having another plant built in indianapolis' territory, using union crafts, ford and chevy are taking there jobs to Mexico. The war is over buddy and as far as China and Korea go, fuck them! More americans lose jobs to them while Japanese investors supply them, anything bad to say about Japan is simply racist! Dont forget how we treat Germany......

www.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how

You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net

[Frenchy68 0]

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totally disagree and this comes from a buy american redneck union man. Japan has been about the only country to bring their work HERE whereas all our big coroprations take our work away. I had BIIIIIG arguements when i got an MR2 back in 96 with guys. I asked what is worse...enemy or traitor? fact is while toyota was having another plant built in indianapolis' territory, using union crafts, ford and chevy are taking there jobs to Mexico. The war is over buddy and as far as China and Korea go, fuck them! More americans lose jobs to them while Japanese investors supply them, anything bad to say about Japan is simply racist! Dont forget how we treat Germany......

I don't see what your post has to do with the situation in Asia. All I am saying is that the US government (ANY US government) today will not allow Japan to build nuclear capability, as it would make a bad situation greatly worse. The "anything bad to say about Japan is racist" is simply comical when preceded by "as far as China and Korea, fuck them". There is still lots of animosity between China/Korea and Japan, steming from the rapes and genocides commited by the Japanese in the first half of the 20th century. It's a fact, that's all. Japan refuses to do what Germany did towards the Jewish community and the nations it abused, which is a simple apology, and Japanese history books do not reflect ANY of the Japanese occupation chapters.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Andy9o8 2]

Both of you make very good and valid points, but – on balance – I think Frenchy's argument will probably carry the day due to the practical realities of Pan-Asian geopolitics.

That being said, Frenchy, you say: "the US government (ANY US government) today will not allow Japan to build nuclear capability..."

...and that makes me wonder whether the US really can "disallow" it, shy of using military force, especially if the Japanese are diligent about maintaining secrecy (you know how sneaky they are). I heard an analyst on NPR yesterday predict that, given Japan's existing nuclear and technological infrastructure, Japan could probably get a nuclear weapon constructed and operable in as little as 6 months.

[NCclimber 0]

For the last 60 years, Japan spent (on average) one percent of their GDP on national defense.

Those guys are smart.

[jcd11235 0]

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Japan has been blessed with not having to spend a dime on national defense for the last 60 years.

Those guys are smart.

You are so right. Maybe we could be so lucky as to have some other country drop a couple nuclear bombs on us.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rehmwa 2]

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One would think so, but it doesn't appear that that's a consideration when the "let's drop a bomb" argument is bandied about. On another note, the South Korean media (both conservative & liberal) is going nuts about how eager the US is to move on to North Korea as a new battlefield now that Iraq has turned out to be such a winner.

1 - I was agreeing with you that it's intuitive for the locals. The 'bandied' argument is just flip talk from posers - you know that.
2 - South Korean media is off base, I think the US position right now is that NoKo has to negotiate with a block of nations - not eager AT ALL to make NoKo a battlefield. So the propoganda machine is in force on the peninsula.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[NCclimber 0]

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Japan has been blessed with not having to spend a dime on national defense for the last 60 years.

Those guys are smart.

You are so right. Maybe we could be so lucky as to have some other country drop a couple nuclear bombs on us.

Oh look! A non sequitur.

[jcd11235 0]

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So the propoganda machine is in force on the peninsula all around the world..

There, I fixed it for you!

PS. It just occurred to me that your username is an anagram for W. Maher. Are you Bill Maher?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rehmwa 2]

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Are you Bill Maher?

that sell out hack?

The show Politically Incorrect was very funny until it became politically correct suckup.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jcd11235 0]

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Are you Bill Maher?

that sell out hack?

The show Politically Incorrect was very funny until it became politically correct suckup.

Way to avoid the question!

Actually I don't know anything about Bill Maher, since I don't own or desire a television. I was just trying to make sense of your username.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Frenchy68 0]

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That being said, Frenchy, you say: "the US government (ANY US government) today will not allow Japan to build nuclear capability..."

...and that makes me wonder whether the US really can "disallow" it, shy of using military force, especially if the Japanese are diligent about maintaining secrecy (you know how sneaky they are). I heard an analyst on NPR yesterday predict that, given Japan's existing nuclear and technological infrastructure, Japan could probably get a nuclear weapon constructed and operable in as little as 6 months.

No one can "disallow" Japan from doing anything. But the US, China, Russia, etc... can certainly convey to Japan that developping a nuclear force would be bad juju. Japan will listen, as long as there is also an active move towards negotiating with the DPNK. Besides the fact that I doubt the US would sanction Japan getting a nuclear arsenal, I actually think Japan resents heading that way right now. Knowing full well how bad things could get...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[billvon 3,120]

>Looks like the SOBs did it.

Let's hope no one else follows in their footsteps, and let's hope we don't make mistakes like this again:

------------------------------
U.S. Web Archive Is Said to Reveal a Nuclear Primer
By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: November 3, 2006

Last March, the federal government set up a Web site to make public a vast archive of Iraqi documents captured during the war. The Bush administration did so under pressure from Congressional Republicans who had said they hoped to “leverage the Internet” to find new evidence of the prewar dangers posed by Saddam Hussein.

But in recent weeks, the site has posted some documents that weapons experts say are a danger themselves: detailed accounts of Iraq’s secret nuclear research before the 1991 Persian Gulf war. The documents, the experts say, constitute a basic guide to building an atom bomb.

Last night, the government shut down the Web site after The New York Times asked about complaints from weapons experts and arms-control officials.

. . .

The documents, roughly a dozen in number, contain charts, diagrams, equations and lengthy narratives about bomb building that nuclear experts who have viewed them say go beyond what is available elsewhere on the Internet and in other public forums. For instance, the papers give detailed information on how to build nuclear firing circuits and triggering explosives, as well as the radioactive cores of atom bombs.

“For the U.S. to toss a match into this flammable area is very irresponsible,” said A. Bryan Siebert, a former director of classification at the federal Department of Energy, which runs the nation’s nuclear arms program. “There’s a lot of things about nuclear weapons that are secret and should remain so.”
-----------------------------

I haven't seen any of these documents. But if they contain information about the geometry of the explosive lensing required for implosion devices - that's the area that will give any country trying to build a nuclear weapon the most trouble from a pure design point of view.

[kallend 2,150]

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>Looks like the SOBs did it.

Let's hope no one else follows in their footsteps, and let's hope we don't make mistakes like this again:

------------------------------
U.S. Web Archive Is Said to Reveal a Nuclear Primer
By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: November 3, 2006

Last March, the federal government set up a Web site to make public a vast archive of Iraqi documents captured during the war. The Bush administration did so under pressure from Congressional Republicans who had said they hoped to “leverage the Internet” to find new evidence of the prewar dangers posed by Saddam Hussein.

But in recent weeks, the site has posted some documents that weapons experts say are a danger themselves: detailed accounts of Iraq’s secret nuclear research before the 1991 Persian Gulf war. The documents, the experts say, constitute a basic guide to building an atom bomb.

Last night, the government shut down the Web site after The New York Times asked about complaints from weapons experts and arms-control officials.

. . .

The documents, roughly a dozen in number, contain charts, diagrams, equations and lengthy narratives about bomb building that nuclear experts who have viewed them say go beyond what is available elsewhere on the Internet and in other public forums. For instance, the papers give detailed information on how to build nuclear firing circuits and triggering explosives, as well as the radioactive cores of atom bombs.

“For the U.S. to toss a match into this flammable area is very irresponsible,” said A. Bryan Siebert, a former director of classification at the federal Department of Energy, which runs the nation’s nuclear arms program. “There’s a lot of things about nuclear weapons that are secret and should remain so.”
-----------------------------

I haven't seen any of these documents. But if they contain information about the geometry of the explosive lensing required for implosion devices - that's the area that will give any country trying to build a nuclear weapon the most trouble from a pure design point of view.

Let me see if I understand: congressional REPUBLICANS asked the BUSH administration to post this stuff on the internet, and the BUSH administration complied.

So Republicans love terrorists!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[StreetScooby 5]

And Clinton loves BJs

We are all engines of karma

[billvon 3,120]

>And Clinton loves BJs

You know, I think I heard something about that once.

[wmw999 2,589]

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And Clinton loves BJs

Clinton's a guy. From what I understand, that's kind of a no-brainer. The question is -- does Monica love BJs?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Amazon 7]

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Let me see if I understand: congressional REPUBLICANS asked the BUSH administration to post this stuff on the internet, and the BUSH administration complied.

So Republicans love terrorists!

I guess Homeland Security is not doing the job they claim they are doing.....moe security flubs.. like the right wing busted Clintons chops over about sales of national secrets to China.... hell at least THEY did not put it out there for FREE>