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Kidd

House of Bush House of Saud

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Has anyone else read this book?

Very interesting account of 9/11 and the relationships between the Bush family and the Carlyle Group.



I've recently read both books by Robert Baer, and seen his documentary : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Baer

Anyone who tries to focus just on the Bush family and the Saudis is missing the big picture. The problem is the Saudis are pumping huge amounts of cash to anyone in Washington who can influence policy, and adjusting their oil production to stabilize prices. In return Washington sees to it the House of Saud gets all the support and arms it needs to maintain it's hold on power in Saudi Arabia. the royal family gets much of it's cash by skimming off the top of the arms deals.

The relationship is much like two drunks holding each other up as they stagger down the street.
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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Anyone who tries to focus just on the Bush family and the Saudis is missing the big picture. The problem is the Saudis are pumping huge amounts of cash to anyone in Washington who can influence policy, and adjusting their oil production to stabilize prices. In return Washington sees to it the House of Saud gets all the support and arms it needs to maintain it's hold on power in Saudi Arabia. the royal family gets much of it's cash by skimming off the top of the arms deals.

The relationship is much like two drunks holding each other up as they stagger down the street.



I agree about the bigger picture, enter the Carlyle Group and Bin Laden Group [two companies].

This is just the basic summary of the book. It also goes into details about the connections between the Saudis and Arab non-profit organizations in the US that funneled money to known terrorists.
The connections with The Carlyle Group and the Saudis; how they hire top politicians to help the CG buy failing defense companies so they can inturn get huge contracts from the government due to their connections.
How 140 Arabs were able to fly out of the country after 9/11 when all aircraft were grounded. The CIA either wasn't aware or was ordered by the white house to not ask them questions and just get them out of the country.
The CIA knows they let suspects travel back to Saudi Arabia only to spend months tracking those same suspects down later and arrest them in other countries.

I'm pretty skeptical about anything I read or see on TV but this book is a must read in my opinion.

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I've recently read both books by Robert Baer, and seen his documentary : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Baer



The book House of Bush House of Saud was actually written by Craig Unger.

I do need to read the two books written by Robert Baer too. How were they?

I'm half way into "Against All Enemies" by Richard Clarke. The book has some interesting information but I'm finding it to be slanted in it's presentation. There's a surprise.

What do you think about prosecuting Bush for some of the implications made by Craig Unger?

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Gee whiz guys, spend all that time reading, but you don't spend 30 seconds looking up a confirmation...

In their final report, the 9/11 commission noted:

Three questions have arisen with respect to the departure of Saudi nationals from the United States in the immediate aftermath of 9/11: (1) Did any flights of Saudi nationals take place before national airspace reopened on September 13, 2001? (2) Was there any political intervention to facilitate the departure of Saudi nationals? (3) Did the FBI screen Saudi nationals thoroughly before their departure?

First, we found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals, domestic or international, took place before the reopening of national airspace on the morning of September 13, 2001. To the contrary, every flight we have identified occurred after national airspace reopened.

Second, we found no evidence of political intervention. We found no evidence that anyone at the White House above the level of [National Security Council official] Richard Clarke participated in a decision on the departure of Saudi nationals ... The President and Vice President told us they were not aware of the issue at all until it surfaced much later in the media. None of the officials we interviewed recalled any intervention or direction on this matter from any political appointee.

Third, we believe that the FBI conducted a satisfactory screening of Saudi nationals who left the United State on charter flights. The Saudi government was advised of and agree to the FBI's requirements that passengers be identified and checked against various databases before the flights departed. The Federal Aviation Administration representative working in the FBI operations center made sure that the FBI was aware of the flights of Saudi nationals and was able to screen the passengers before they were allowed to depart.

The FBI interviewed all persons of interest on these flights prior to their departures. They concluded that none of the passengers was connected to the 9/11 attacks and have since found no evidence to change that conclusion. Our own independent review of the Saudi nationals involved confirms that no one with known links to terrorism departed on these flights.

The 9/11 Commission also expanded on the following points in footnotes to the section of the report quoted above:

During the morning of September 11, the FAA suspended all nonemergency air activity in the national airspace. While the national airspace was closed, decisions to allow aircraft to fly were made by the FAA working with the Department of Defense, Department of State, U.S. Secret Service, and the FBI. The Department of Transportation reopened the national airspace to U.S. carriers effective 11:00 A.M. on September 13, 2001, for flights out of or into airports that had implemented the FAA's new security requirements.

After the airspace reopened, nine chartered flights with 160 people, mostly Saudi nationals, departed from the United States between September 14 and 24. In addition, one Saudi government flight, containing the Saudi deputy defense minister and other members of an official Saudi delegation, departed Newark Airport on September 14. Every airport involved in these Saudi flights was open when the flight departed, and no inappropriate actions were taken to allow those flights to depart.

Another particular allegation is that a flight carrying Saudi nationals from Tampa, Florida, to Lexington, Kentucky, was allowed to fly while airspace was closed, with special approval by senior U.S. government officials. On September 13, Tampa police brought three young Saudis they were protecting on an off-duty security detail to the airport so they could get on a plane to Lexington. Tampa police arranged for two more private investigators to provide security on the flight. They boarded a chartered Learjet. The plane took off at 4:37 P.M., after national airspace was open, more than five hours after the Tampa airport had reopened, and after other flights had arrived at and departed from that airport. The three Saudi nationals debarked from the plane and were met by local police. Their private security guards were paid. and the police then escorted the three Saudi passengers to a hotel where they joined relatives already in Lexington. The FBI is alleged to have had no record of the flight and denied that it occurred, hence contributing to the story of a "phantom flight." This is another misunderstanding. The FBI was initially misinformed about how the Saudis got to Lexington by a local police officer in Lexington who did not have firsthand knowledge of the matter. The Bureau subsequently learned about the flight.

These flights were screened by law enforcement officials, primarily the FBI. For example, one flight, the so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin. Screening of this flight was directed by an FBI agent in the Baltimore Field Office who was also a pilot ... The Bin Ladin flight and other flights we examined were screened in accordance with policies set by FBI headquarters and coordinated through working-level interagency processes. Although most of the passengers were not interviewed, 22 of the 26 people on the Bin Ladin flight were interviewed by the FBI. Many were asked detailed questions. None of the passengers stated that they had any recent contact with Usama Bin Ladin or knew anything about terrorist activity.


Why should we believe anything else in the book?
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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Since you are so enthusiatic about the 9/11 commission, what do you think about Bush and Cheney's reluctance to testify; eventually they agreed but they did so only under several conditions:

They would be allowed to testify jointly;
They would not be required to take an oath before testifying;
The testimony would not be recorded electronically or transcribed, and that the only record would be notes taken by one of the commission staffers;
These notes would not be made public.

What do you think about the fact that many of the Commission's recommendations still have not been enacted by the Bush administration?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Since you are so enthusiatic about the 9/11 commission, what do you think about Bush and Cheney's reluctance to testify; eventually they agreed but they did so only under several conditions:

They would be allowed to testify jointly;
They would not be required to take an oath before testifying;
The testimony would not be recorded electronically or transcribed, and that the only record would be notes taken by one of the commission staffers;
These notes would not be made public.

What do you think about the fact that many of the Commission's recommendations still have not been enacted by the Bush administration?



I'm not "enthusiastic" about the 9/11 report. It was just an easy way to show that some books by a conspiracy advocate were bullshit, at least on this point. Do you believe it? Doesn't seem any more likely to be true than the WTC towers falling faster than gravity would allow.

The executive branch never easily submits to questioning by other branches of government, that is SOP that has been so for many different presidents.

It is amazing that as many of the commission recommendations have been implememted. Turning each one into law is not easy, passing any law isn't easy - fights over wording, differences in how to implement, differences in whether some of them are actually a good idea...I would expect that if you look back at history you'll find such recommendations aren't usually fully enacted, perhaps unfortunate, perhaps sometimes good.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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I've recently read both books by Robert Baer, and seen his documentary : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Baer



The book House of Bush House of Saud was actually written by Craig Unger.

I do need to read the two books written by Robert Baer too. How were they?

I'm half way into "Against All Enemies" by Richard Clarke. The book has some interesting information but I'm finding it to be slanted in it's presentation. There's a surprise.

What do you think about prosecuting Bush for some of the implications made by Craig Unger?



I haven't read the Unger book.

After seeing "Syriana", I became very interested in Robert Baer and read "See No Evil". "Syriana" was based on the last 25% of that book. The book is the story of Baer's career in the CIA.

Baer's second book is "Sleeping With The Enemy", which goes into great depth and history behind Islam, the Middle East, the oil industry, and politics. It was a real eye-opener. It talked about the Carlyle Group quite a bit.

The first I'd heard of the Carlyle Group was from "Fahrenheit 9/11". I watched that flick reluctantly knowing I would hate it. To my surprise, I would give it a thumbs up. The Baer books reinforce and expand on what Moore only touched on.

Baer also did an English documentary last year on the history of the suicide bombers. It was quite interesting, while also being rather depressing.

I haven't read anything by Richard Clark, but I've seen him in quite a few news shows and PBS documentaries. I might just pick up his book.
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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Ok, I'm back. Didn't the governement issue the findings in the 9/11 report?



Yes.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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I have always believed, and continue to believe, that as fellow oil men, George HW Bush and Saddam Hussein will yet golf together when all is said and done and W is confined to a mental institution where he belongs.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

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