Bill Frist becomes an appeaser

[billvon 3,132]

I think the GOP is going to have to change its rhetoric. It's been using "cut and run", "terrorist appeaser" and "emboldening the enemy" as insults for quite a while; it will have to change pretty quickly given that a GOP leader has become one of those terrorist appeasers.

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Frist: Taliban Should Be in Afghan Gov't
Mon Oct 2, 2006 4:01 PM
Jim Krane, AP Writer

QALAT, AFGHANISTAN — U.S. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said Monday that the Afghan war against Taliban guerrillas can never be won militarily and called for efforts to bring the Islamic militia and its supporters into the Afghan government.

The Tennessee Republican said he learned from briefings that Taliban fighters were too numerous and had too much popular support to be defeated on the battlefield.

"You need to bring them into a more transparent type of government," Frist said during a brief visit to a U.S. and Romanian military base in the southern Taliban stronghold of Qalat. "And if that's accomplished, we'll be successful."

Afghanistan is suffering its heaviest insurgent attacks since a U.S.-led military force toppled the Taliban in late 2001 for harboring al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.

According to an Associated Press count, based on reports from U.S., NATO and Afghan officials, at least 2,800 people have been killed nationwide so far this year. The count, which includes militants and civilians, is about 1,300 more than the toll for all of 2005.

The top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan, Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, told Pentagon reporters last month that while the Taliban enemy in Afghanistan is not extremely strong, their numbers and influence have grown in some southern sections of the country.
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Press Releases

FRIST DENOUNCES DEMOCRATS' PLAN TO CUT AND RUN
June 20, 2006

Out of the black smoke and ashes of that terrible day, America stood up strong, united, and determined. After careful deliberation, we answered back. We toppled the Taliban in Afghanistan, where al-Qaeda had trained.
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The speech had been proceeding for perhaps twenty minutes when a messenger hurried on to the platform and a scrap of paper was slipped into the speaker's hand. He unrolled and read it without pausing in his speech. Nothing altered in his voice or manner, or in the content of what he was saying, but suddenly the names were different. Without words said, a wave of understanding rippled through the crowd. Oceania was at war with Eastasia! . . . The thing that impressed Winston in looking back was that the speaker had switched from one line to the other actually in midsentence, not only without a pause, but without even breaking the syntax.

. . .

Oceania was at war with Eastasia: Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia. A large part of the political literature of five years was now completely obsolete. Reports and records of all kinds, newspapers, books, pamphlets, films, sound-tracks, photographs -- all had to be rectified at lightning speed. Although no directive was ever issued, it was known that the chiefs of the Department intended that within one week no reference to the war with Eurasia, or the alliance with Eastasia, should remain in existence anywhere.

George Orwell
1984

[matthewcline 0]

Maybe all the e-mails Bill and I have exchanged have meant some thing.

Maybe, just Maybe, common sense will start to prevail.

(but I am not holding my breath)

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Guest]

Quote

Maybe all the e-mails Bill and I have exchanged have meant some thing.

Maybe, just Maybe, common sense will start to prevail.

(but I am not holding my breath)

Matt

No, it "cannot be won militarily", but military action is only one facet of the fight; id est, it's only part of an overall strategy.

"Popular support" isn't something that the Taliban enjoy. The only way they get it is by terrorizing the population into cooperation, or at the very least, not causing them any problems.

The most effective way of denying the Taliban opprotunities is to give people a worthwhile alternative. It's my opinion that in some cases, the people believe that they've got nothing to lose and at least something to gain (the "Hog's breath is better than no breath at all" scenario).

I haven't seen or read Frist's remarks, but considering that Orwell's "1984" was part of Billvon's post, it's most likely taken out of the larger context of remarks about the campaign.

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[billvon 3,132]

>No, it "cannot be won militarily" . . .

Woah! Have you become a "defeatocrat?"

Seriously, I agree. We can win real wars militarily, but an army is ill-prepared to win wars on terrorism, drugs, illiteracy etc. and it is especially ill-prepared to cement a disintegrating country back together. An army is a hammer, and we're trying to use that hammer to fix a stained glass window.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

> we're trying to use that hammer to fix a stained glass window.

when what is really needed is duct tape

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,132]

>when what is really needed is duct tape

And some sort of chewing gum. But not WD-40; that wouldn't work at all.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>when what is really needed is duct tape

And some sort of chewing gum. But not WD-40; that wouldn't work at all.

it doesn't chew at all - not at all like a fan belt

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 23]

.... Billvon's post, it's most likely taken out of the larger context of remarks about the campaign.

Quote

He is proving himself as being dam good at this.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

• Quote

[sundevil777 102]

I think your post might be terribly wrong.

I would like to see the full text of his speech, he basically says he's been mis-paraphrased terribly.

Frist said that tribesman should be brought in to the government so they aren't tempted to join the Taliban.

Shouldn't be so hard to prove, perhaps just dems frothing at the mouth as usual, thinking they've latched onto something substantial.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Guest]

Quote

>No, it "cannot be won militarily" . . .

Woah! Have you become a "defeatocrat?"

No, I meant that it cannot be won via military means alone; that is, solely through force of arms. All the means at our disposal must be used, not just violence. And that's the really hard part, because in that part of the world, restraint is perceived as weakness. It's a tough job.

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[billvon 3,132]

>No, I meant that it cannot be won via military means alone; that is,
>solely through force of arms. All the means at our disposal must be used,
>not just violence.

Indeed, and I would argue that violence is currently NOT working, so other solutions have to be tried if we are to "win." (Indeed, we don't even have a good definition of what 'win' means; that would be a good thing to fix.)

And until this week, anyone who suggested such a thing was a cut-and-run defeatocrat who wanted to appease the terrorists by giving them what they wanted. Is this a sign that the meaningless rhetoric is finally giving way to a more rational approach to this issue? We can only hope.

>And that's the really hard part, because in that part of the world, restraint is perceived as weakness.

In this part of the world, too. That's been the GOP's line on anyone who wants to pursue anything but destruction (until recently that is.)

[Guest]

Using all means, not just military means, to win the peace should be everyone's goal.

"Trying something else" doesn't cut it.

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[billvon 3,132]

>"Trying something else" doesn't cut it.

Well, as we've seen, "stay the course" and "more of the same" sure as shit isn't cutting it. Unless victory is defined as thousands of US soldiers dying overseas while we become less and less safe, while Al Qaeda grows stronger, while the Taliban comes back, and while tens of thousands of Iraqis die - then we better try something else.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

No, it "cannot be won militarily", but military action is only one facet of the fight; id est, it's only part of an overall strategy.

I asked Freeflier this too, but never heard back from him:

1. What is the officially stated strategy for Iraq? Can you point me to where I could find it?

2. What is officially considered a victory in Iraq?

I am sure the great minds in your government have formulated a strategy to rally behind?