Once upon a time.. there was a president.....

[Amazon 7]

who really believed in personal responsibility.

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/buckstop.htm

"The Buck Stops Here" Desk Sign
The sign "The Buck Stops Here" that was on President Truman's desk in his White House office was made in the Federal Reformatory at El Reno, Oklahoma. Fred M. Canfil, then United States Marshal for the Western District of Missouri and a friend of Mr. Truman, saw a similar sign while visiting the Reformatory and asked the Warden if a sign like it could be made for President Truman. The sign was made and mailed to the President on October 2, 1945.

Approximately 2-1/2" x 13" in size and mounted on walnut base, the painted glass sign has the words "I'm From Missouri" on the reverse side. It appeared at different times on his desk until late in his administration.

The saying "the buck stops here" derives from the slang expression "pass the buck" which means passing the responsibility on to someone else. The latter expression is said to have originated with the game of poker, in which a marker or counter, frequently in frontier days a knife with a buckhorn handle, was used to indicate the person whose turn it was to deal. If the player did not wish to deal he could pass the responsibility by passing the "buck," as the counter came to be called, to the next player.*

On more than one occasion President Truman referred to the desk sign in public statements. For example, in an address at the National War College on December 19, 1952 Mr. Truman said, "You know, it's easy for the Monday morning quarterback to say what the coach should have done, after the game is over. But when the decision is up before you -- and on my desk I have a motto which says The Buck Stops Here' -- the decision has to be made." In his farewell address to the American people given in January 1953, President Truman referred to this concept very specifically in asserting that, "The President--whoever he is--has to decide. He can't pass the buck to anybody. No one else can do the deciding for him. That's his job.

The sign has been displayed at the Library since 1957.

I wonder if there is current sign in the White House..... The BUCK starts to pass from here.

[freeflir29 0]

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on my desk I have a motto which says The Buck Stops Here' -- the decision has to be made.

At least Bush makes decisions.

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You know, it's easy for the Monday morning quarterback to say what the coach should have done, after the game is over.

Seems like everyone is good at that.

[StreetScooby 5]

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I wonder if there is current sign in the White House..... The BUCK starts to pass from here.

Sounds like that applies to Rummy more than anyone else. What a disgrace this guy is. He has my vote as worst SecDef ever.

We are all engines of karma

[miked10270 0]

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I wonder if there is current sign in the White House..... The BUCK starts to pass from here.

Or... The Bucks Stop Here! ?

I wonder how financially beneficial Dubbie's presidency has been for his family and friends. I'm not suggesting direct bribery, but you prefer to work with people you know and talk to them about what you're going to do. It's not QUITE insider-trading, but... A little foreknowledge of where your money's going to do best, getting a contract when everything else is pretty much equal, being asked to do some research... Consulting & Lobbying fees & expenses...

I'd guess that Dubbie has done a lot better than his salary as president.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[kbordson 8]

I've been to the Truman Library. Interesting time in history and a LOT of critical decisions.... but the job of the presidency has changed since then. Cabinets and Committes have become too powerful. Accountablity is nominal at best.

I think Douglas Adams had it corret:

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His job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it. On those criteria Zaphod Beeblebrox is one of the most successful Presidents the Galaxy

[DaVinci 0]

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At least Bush makes decisions

Bingo. It is a shame that all some can do is insult and claim to know more than those with daily briefings. It is pretty arrogant to claim you better intelligence than the people in and around the White House.

But I am willing to bet this place was the same when Clinton was in office, and will be the same if the Democrats can put someone into office. Except the rolls were/will reverse.

I wish people would use logic and not so much emotion when trying to discuss on here.

And for what it is worth. I think Bush did stop the buck. Several Presidents, including GW1, Ronnie, and Clinton, all played a part in where we are right now. But Bush2 did something about it. Some may say he was wrong, maybe he was, but he did something while others passed the buck.

[livetofall 0]

Truman was a great president. If the democratic party stayed with his ideals, there wouldnt be so many of us ex-democrats. The US has drastically changed in morality and ideals since then. Harrys rolling in his grave over the new party ideals

www.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how

You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net

[crwtom 0]

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I wonder how financially beneficial Dubbie's presidency has been for his family and friends. ...
I'd guess that Dubbie has done a lot better than his salary as president.

well, he has to figure out something else.

President''s salaries are very low compared to private sector salaries of CEOs and similar top management positions. So (Ex)Presidents cash out later when they get huge honoraria as public speakers. Without that the potus job would be a bad deal economically.

Now for Mr Garbled Wishiwashi Babble (GWB) this is likely not going to very profitable (unless he wants to start some sort-of comedy show) - so it's only fair he gets a few insider breaks.

Cheers, T

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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It is pretty arrogant to claim you better intelligence than the people in and around the White House

The BIGGEST decision of his presidency was based on completely false intelligence. Why would you want to assume that all his decisions after that were based on better intelligence?

[kallend 2,182]

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on my desk I have a motto which says The Buck Stops Here' -- the decision has to be made.

At least Bush makes decisions.


.

Bad ones, based on falsehoods.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DaVinci 0]

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The BIGGEST decision of his presidency was based on completely false intelligence. Why would you want to assume that all his decisions after that were based on better intelligence?

What makes you, or anyone else, think they have BETTER intel? It is pretty arrogant to think you have better intel than the guy that has the CIA, FBI, NSA ect giving him briefings. Now the question of the bead intelligence is a great one. Do you not think that many people given the same intelligence would come to the same conclusion? Kinda a GIGO result? I think that a GIGO situation is a hell of a lot more likely than thinking a President just wanted to go to war. So IMO, the failures of the intelligence services are a real problem and unless you know that the President got information that said one thing and went with another, well I would love to see proof of that. If there was proof, not just speculation, I would like to see the President impeached. But so far I have never been given any real proof, even though people claim to have some.

[billvon 3,132]

>Do you not think that many people given the same intelligence
>would come to the same conclusion?

Nope. It's pretty clear that most people, when presented with an intelligence report titled "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE IN US" would conclude that Bin Laden was determined to strike in the US. Bush did not, and Rice is now claiming that they were never told that the US was targeted.

[DaVinci 0]

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Nope. It's pretty clear that most people, when presented with an intelligence report titled "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE IN US" would conclude that Bin Laden was determined to strike in the US. Bush did not, and Rice is now claiming that they were never told that the US was targeted.

Laden was determined to strike the US for years. The biggest miss we had was when OBL was in camp and we knew it, but a Saudi Prince was there as well. We should have taken him out then. But my question was do you believe that anyone else could have made the same choices given the same intellegence, or do you think Bush just flat out wanted to go to war and dd everything to accomplish that? If so, what do you base that on?

[Amazon 7]

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But my question was do you believe that anyone else could have made the same choices given the same intellegence, or do you think Bush just flat out wanted to go to war and dd everything to accomplish that? If so, what do you base that on?

It is right there for all to read.. the PNAC boys who got Rummy on board for their vision of nationbuilding..... OVER the advice of the professional military people who would have to prosecute the war.

[mnealtx 0]

Strawman...since when does the military get to pick SecDef.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

I can no longer make any sorts of comments in SC.. or I will be banned apparently.. so I will sit back and make non threatening comments to the male power elite

[micro 0]

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I can no longer make any sorts of comments in SC.. or I will be banned apparently.. so I will sit back and make non threatening comments to the male power elite

Is that really true? Or do you just need to make cogent, non-rancorous comments that add to the debate? Ya know I love ya girl, but sometimes Jeane, the vitriol is just way over the top.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[Amazon 7]

Well lets see I can GET PA's// outright vitriolic name calling.....and the person making them suffers no repercussions or even a warning...

I guess the old term turn about is fair play.. does not apply

[ROK 0]

Man I like you...

Whenever I sign on now, I look for your posts. Would love to have a beer, shot, etc., with ya and debate.

Your direct-indirectness is awesome...

Keep the world interesting

[DaVinci 0]

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Is that really true? Or do you just need to make cogent, non-rancorous comments that add to the debate? Ya know I love ya girl, but sometimes Jeane, the vitriol is just way over the top.

I think thats the case.

[DaVinci 0]

So, do you think that another canidate in that position would have come up with a totally different solution given the same information? The question is do you think that the information was slanted, the President took the information and slanted it, or was it a combination of both?

[Amazon 7]

My you have such wonderful features.

[billvon 3,132]

> So, do you think that another canidate in that position would have
>come up with a totally different solution given the same information?

Yep. Heck, I think if you yourself were president, and you were giving an intelligence briefing entitled "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US" - you would likely have taken it more seriously than he did.

[DaVinci 0]

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My you have such wonderful features.

Why thank you, and your avitar is quite nice.

Care to answer the question and have a nice discussion without attacks? I think that would be very nice.

So, do you think that another canidate in that position would have come up with a totally different solution given the same information? The question is do you think that the information was slanted, the President took the information and slanted it, or was it a combination of both?

[Amazon 7]

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So, do you think that another canidate in that position would have come up with a totally different solution given the same information? The question is do you think that the information was slanted, the President took the information and slanted it, or was it a combination of both?

From the looks of all the information now coming out.. they fit the intelligence to fit the stated goal of getting Sadaam. They did not listen to the people who actual esperience in taking troops to war.
Their planning and execution of the aftermath was flawed since they basically did not make any attempt to see any other possible outcome than what they wanted to see. IT goes to the same syndrome of not wanting to hear any dissenting opinion from people at town hall meetings.. or in NSA meetings.

They have it on high from the omnipotent that what they are doing is right.