freeflir29 0 #1 September 29, 2006 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWp0BUmsGY Hope we are off to the Northwest territories next. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #2 September 29, 2006 Based on an interview I saw with President Musharraf this past week, that report seems incomplete. I'm holding my own judgement for now to see how this plays out. President Musharraf has been walking a tightrope.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #3 September 29, 2006 QuotePresident Musharraf has been walking a tightrope. He's certainly in a shitty situation. I looked "Between a rock and a hard place" and said "See Pervez Musharaf." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #4 September 29, 2006 QuoteQuotePresident Musharraf has been walking a tightrope. He's certainly in a shitty situation. I looked "Between a rock and a hard place" and said "See Pervez Musharaf." What can you do when your millions of countrymen hate the U.S., and at the same time you're trying to keep the U.S. Govt happy by helping go after the terrorists... I'm glad I'm not him. Maybe he should just tell his country, "Lay off of me will ya? They'll bomb us the fuck back to the stone age if I don't help them, so shuddup!!" "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #5 September 29, 2006 QuoteThey'll bomb us the fuck back to the stone age Dont forget. Pakistan can also bomb the US back to the stone age.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #6 September 29, 2006 I don't know how this will play out Al quaeda has tried to assassinate Musharraf many times. hmmm. In any case, it's important not to exaggerate the importance of Osama. Many of the Islamic terrorist cells around the world do not take orders from him or al zawahri. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #7 September 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteThey'll bomb us the fuck back to the stone age Dont forget. Pakistan can also bomb the US back to the stone age. No they can't. They don't have an intercontinential delivery system. Pakistan's doctrine is focused around conflict with India, who has a vastly numerically superior conventional force (akin to NATO doctrine to stop a USSR attack into western Europe during the Cold War).So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #8 September 30, 2006 QuoteQuotePresident Musharraf has been walking a tightrope. He's certainly in a shitty situation. I looked "Between a rock and a hard place" and said "See Pervez Musharaf." One case where it is in the US (and its allies) interest to keep a dictatorship in power. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #9 September 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotePresident Musharraf has been walking a tightrope. He's certainly in a shitty situation. I looked "Between a rock and a hard place" and said "See Pervez Musharaf." One case where it is in the US (and its allies) interest to keep a dictatorship in power. Indeed, but he has been greasing the gears to keep a parliamentary system "working". There have been parliamentary elections, prime ministry elections as well. President Musharraf still essentially has control, but the system is there to work the way it needs to once things settle down enough for him to fully transfer executive powers.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #10 September 30, 2006 "We will make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbor them." -GWB, 2003 "I, of course, continue to talk to my buddy and my friend about his goals for a democratic Pakistan" (referring to Musharraf) - GWB 2006 At this rate we'll be supporting the Taliban again pretty soon (assuming they pick a fight with someone we dislike, which they always do) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #11 September 30, 2006 QuoteAt this rate we'll be supporting the Taliban again pretty soon (assuming they pick a fight with someone we dislike, which they always do) Bill..........."Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" is a phrase that holds true here. One of the big problems was the shift after the cold war to "technological" means of collecting intel. Seems like politicians thought that with the USSR gone we didn't need spies anymore. Satellites were the wave of the future. I think this has been a HUGE contributor to the predicament we're in now. Thanks Bill Clinton. (Not completely his fault but he did a LOT of damage to the intel services and the military.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #12 September 30, 2006 Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWp0BUmsGY Hope we are off to the Northwest territories next. be careful what you wish for, that would be sticking you balls into the hornets nest. The reason that Pakistan has done this is because it has no real choice. As the report said the Pakistani army regualrly gets butchered when it goes into NWFP. This has always been the case there is no friendly population there at all. It has always been a tribal rule area outside the juristiction of the Pakistani govenment. It is only part of Pakistan on the map, in reality there is no real boarder between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Musharaf is really in a imposible situation. All through the 80's the US and the UK strengthened and supported Islamic extreamists and fighters not only in this region but elsewhere in Pakistan. During the '80 and early '90's it was common to see US flags and stickers of the flag of the USA all over cars and on huts in the shanty towns around the Pakistani cities. This support has now gone following what is viewed in the Muslim world as two wars of aggression and the continued support of Israel in the persecution of Palastinians and the recent war on Lebanon. There are however large amounts of the Pakistani population hostile to Al Q ideology. Musharafs problem is that even these people would not want to see permission given to the US to go into NWFP and kill their own countrymen en mass, and it would be en mass. This would undoubtedly lead to a revolution and a major sucess for the extreamists leaving only Iran as the stable country in the region west of India. The extreamists would soon start a war with India and would also now have nukes. Israel wouldn't allow that any more than India would and would most likely strike Pakistan touching the blue paper for WWIII as other Arab countries fell or retaliated. I think Musharaf is doing the best job in the worst of situations in regards to walking the international tightrope. Remember whats said out loud doesn't always cover what goes on covertly. The guarentee is that so long as the combatants do not activly take part in terrorist activity the Pakistani Army will not go into NWFP. This sounds good to the Pakistani Taliban but what does it really mean? Nothing. As already mentioned the Pakistani army are ineffectual in the province anyway. The extreamists won't stop their activities, and predators will still be able to fly and gather intelligence and targeting information and given the chance strike.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #13 September 30, 2006 QuoteRemember whats said out loud doesn't always cover what goes on covertly. That does bring up some interesting possibilities. Not going to go into intel analyst mode but this could actually be a very good thing. I guess too much time spent in SC is dulling my spider senses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #14 October 1, 2006 QuoteIndeed, but he has been greasing the gears to keep a parliamentary system "working". There have been parliamentary elections, prime ministry elections as well. President Musharraf still essentially has control, but the system is there to work the way it needs to once things settle down enough for him to fully transfer executive powers. Godd points. My point was more about the fact that we, in the "Western World", tend to confuse democracy with freedom and happiness. It may be so to us. But there are many parts of the world where, given the opportunity, the masses would vote towards the abolishing of democracy and would replace one authoritarian regime by another. Democracy is, in my opinion, a luxury. What matters more to people is to eat, be sheltered, reproduce, feel like they live in a stable society. Earn enough not to go hungry and homeless. In most dictatorships, a few percentage of the population rips benefits; a minority is oppressed; and the majority usually goes about their lives without really caring whether X, Y or Z is ruling the country. As long as they get left alone and survive decently. Trying to force democracy down the throats of certain culture can be dangerous, both for them and us. They don't care about universal vote, civil rights, market driven economy, etc... It doesn't make them worse or better than we are. Just my thoughts... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #15 October 1, 2006 Quote My point was more about the fact that we, in the "Western World", tend to confuse democracy with freedom and happiness. It may be so to us. But there are many parts of the world where, given the opportunity, the masses would vote towards the abolishing of democracy and would replace one authoritarian regime by another. Democracy is, in my opinion, a luxury. What matters more to people is to eat, be sheltered, reproduce, feel like they live in a stable society. Earn enough not to go hungry and homeless. In most dictatorships, a few percentage of the population rips benefits; a minority is oppressed; and the majority usually goes about their lives without really caring whether X, Y or Z is ruling the country. As long as they get left alone and survive decently. Trying to force democracy down the throats of certain culture can be dangerous, both for them and us. They don't care about universal vote, civil rights, market driven economy, etc... It doesn't make them worse or better than we are. Well put, Frenchy. My .02 here is - don't democracies require educated people to function? Iraq, etc., have alot of uneducated people who seem to be quite happy in that state.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #16 October 1, 2006 QuoteQuote My point was more about the fact that we, in the "Western World", tend to confuse democracy with freedom and happiness. It may be so to us. But there are many parts of the world where, given the opportunity, the masses would vote towards the abolishing of democracy and would replace one authoritarian regime by another. Democracy is, in my opinion, a luxury. What matters more to people is to eat, be sheltered, reproduce, feel like they live in a stable society. Earn enough not to go hungry and homeless. In most dictatorships, a few percentage of the population rips benefits; a minority is oppressed; and the majority usually goes about their lives without really caring whether X, Y or Z is ruling the country. As long as they get left alone and survive decently. Trying to force democracy down the throats of certain culture can be dangerous, both for them and us. They don't care about universal vote, civil rights, market driven economy, etc... It doesn't make them worse or better than we are. Well put, Frenchy. My .02 here is - don't democracies require educated people to function? Iraq, etc., have alot of uneducated people who seem to be quite happy in that state. You mean, like the "red" states in the USA?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #17 October 1, 2006 QuoteWell put, Frenchy. My .02 here is - don't democracies require educated people to function? Iraq, etc., have alot of uneducated people who seem to be quite happy in that state. That is incorrect. One thing the Saddam did during his regime was provide a massive education base to the population. It was one of the ways he secured his grip on power. Iraqis are very well educated.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #18 November 2, 2006 Like I said, business as usual. http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8101439 Softly softly catchy monkey...When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
