How to prevent voting fraud?

[sundevil777 102]

I think a voter ID card is a reasonable way. It appears from some court decisions that perhaps the constitution doesn't allow any new burden, so an amendment to the state or US constitution may be needed to enact such a requirement.

How do you think it should be done?

I think the democrats oppose efforts to reduce voter fraud because they rely on it.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 3,092]

>How do you think it should be done?

1) Trackable, machine readable paper ballots.
2) Biometric tracking of voters. (Used for detection of multiple-vote fraud, not identification.)

>I think the democrats oppose efforts to reduce voter fraud because they rely on it.

I'd suggest the Conyers Report. You may change your views on that.

[jlmiracle 7]

I don't know what the answer is, but a bunch of dead people voted in the last election down here. Just so happens that the democrates candidate's family owns the funeral home that buried all the dead people that voted.

Something definately needs to change.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[sundevil777 102]

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I'd suggest the Conyers Report. You may change your views on that.

I read quite a bit of it before becoming completely bored - it seemed completely without substance, no better than the lies that were common after the '00 and '04 election. Conyers is a political hack, in my opinion, no surprise his report is nothing but partisan politics. The last governor race in Washington (dem fraud was all but admitted by the judge) is just as useful a discussion tool as the alleged fraud in Ohio.

Paper ballots: I agree with that.

Biometric tracking of voters: That would be enough if our laws allowed everyone to vote (including felons, non-citizens). Because it is so easy to register without regard to these laws, I think there should be more.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Zipp0 1]

Remove Diebold from the process.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[sundevil777 102]

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Remove Diebold from the process.

Quite right! Their machines certainly don't inspire confidence.

Didn't the alleged fraud happen in counties where the elections are managed by democratic county officials? If there was fraud, I would think it most likely was to the benefit of the dems, and they are pissed off that it didn't work!

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[wmw999 2,565]

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Didn't the alleged fraud happen in counties where the elections are managed by democratic county officials?

I think that depends on which reports you read. I haven't seen a list that goes against both republicans and democrats; only ones that go after one or the other.

And frankly, I'm not about to wade through that crap for some dz.com research

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

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a bunch of dead people voted in the last election down here. Just so happens that the democrates candidate's family owns the funeral home that buried all the dead people that voted.

Something definately needs to change.

Dead people are people too. Just dead. that's why they are called "dead people". I prefer circulatorily challenged, though. Don't want to make them feel like freaks.

You are so biased to "Live" people I can't even look at your icon anymore.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,092]

>I read quite a bit of it before becoming completely bored . . .

It is indeed a long and boring report, but is essential reading if you want to learn how to combat voting fraud.

However, if you feel that any republican attempts to influence a vote are "lies without substance" and that a democratic attempt was basically admitted to by a judge, then give up trying to make the voting system less fraudulent and just work to make it conform to your politics. You can't fight fraud when you don't believe one side doesn't participate in it.

[lawrocket 3]

Easy - go to dictatorship. Without voting, there is no frud.

But here's another point: assuming you have defeated the problem of voting fraud, would that defeat allegations of voting fraud? I say, "Hell, no!"

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[sundevil777 102]

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>I read quite a bit of it before becoming completely bored . . .

It is indeed a long and boring report, but is essential reading if you want to learn how to combat voting fraud.

However, if you feel that any republican attempts to influence a vote are "lies without substance" and that a democratic attempt was basically admitted to by a judge, then give up trying to make the voting system less fraudulent and just work to make it conform to your politics. You can't fight fraud when you don't believe one side doesn't participate in it.

Republican attempts to influence the vote? It is allowed for politicians to influence voters. Seriously, to what allegations are you referring?

Why should fighting the fraud require acceptance that both sides participate?

We will probably always have allegations of voter fraud. It is so easy to do it now, however, that it is shameful.

I hear dems complain about proposals that repubs have made, but they don't advocate any alternative effective measures. Given that, why should I not conclude they want to continue to benefit from the fraud.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 3,092]

>Why should fighting the fraud require acceptance that both sides participate?

Because both sides have participated in such attempts at fraud. Attacking the problem without recognizing that is like a judge who pays lip service to justice but is convinced that everyone who enters his courtroom is guilty.

>Given that, why should I not conclude they want to continue to
>benefit from the fraud.

Many republicans want to continue to use Diebold machines, since errors/tampering with those machines has helped _them_ in the past. Like I said, both sides have tried to fraudulently influence elections; both sides will continue to do so.

[sundevil777 102]

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>Why should fighting the fraud require acceptance that both sides participate?

Because both sides have participated in such attempts at fraud. Attacking the problem without recognizing that is like a judge who pays lip service to justice but is convinced that everyone who enters his courtroom is guilty.

>Given that, why should I not conclude they want to continue to
>benefit from the fraud.

Many republicans want to continue to use Diebold machines, since errors/tampering with those machines has helped _them_ in the past. Like I said, both sides have tried to fraudulently influence elections; both sides will continue to do so.

Where is the proof? Allegations are not the same as proof. I don't find Conyers' report credible, just like I don't believe Jesse Jackson when he came to Ohio and claimed that we lead the country in voter fraud schemes. However, I do believe that Ohio might lead the nation in being stupid enough to spend a lot of money on crap machines, and politicians don't like to admit such a mistake.

Even if a repub doesn't believe his side is guilty of fraud, he can still work out (with the opposition) solutions to potential fraudulent practices. In fact, if I don't believe my side is guilty, then I will not have any reason to protect the availability of such practices. I think we are seeing the exact opposite in play right now. The dems oppose efforts, claiming some infringement on privacy without an effective proposal of their own. Looks like they are the ones trying to protect their votes.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[PhreeZone 20]

Reading the report fro mthe Dispatch was interesting, numerous machines on further audit in Franklin county reported total votes that were much higher then the sums of the machines votes. In almost ever instance it read a higher then projected vote count for the republicians and about as expected for the democrats. If they only signed in 500 people but 550 votes are recorded how do you decide which ones to throw out?

Ohio's lawmakers are too busy figureing out another way to raise taxes then they are in trying to resolve voting issues.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[sundevil777 102]

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Reading the report fro mthe Dispatch was interesting, numerous machines on further audit in Franklin county reported total votes that were much higher then the sums of the machines votes. In almost ever instance it read a higher then projected vote count for the republicians and about as expected for the democrats. If they only signed in 500 people but 550 votes are recorded how do you decide which ones to throw out?

Who was deciding how many votes were expected for each side? How many votes beyond "expected" does it take to warrant an allegation of fraud? They didn't "project" Gore to lose either. Aren't Franklin county elections managed by Dems? I don't see how you can conclude that there was tampering by Repubs from such information.

If the allegations related to the Diebold machines were true, the potential impact from such a scandal would be huge. Because of this, the dems are highly motivated to prove it true, but they cannot get past speculation.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[PhreeZone 20]

Elections are not "ran" by a party in Ohio. They are ran by an independent board of elections for each county that is made of members of both political parties. Individual members of the public get hired to go work at a voting location for the day.

http://www.co.franklin.oh.us/boe/content/election/precoff.html

As an example of how screwed up voting is here in Ohio take a look at what happened in Lucas county: http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/ElectionsVoter/OhioElections.aspx?Section=1008

I'm not saying that the republicans did anything to the voting machines because there were some areas in the state that the numbers skewed widely towards the democrats when the polls were not suggesting that amount of votes going towards that canidate either.

There is no record to prove either way where the descrepencies in the projected vs actual voting issues lie and that is a problem. The machines in the polling locations that had totals that were off from what they should have been have no recourse but to either accept all the recorded votes or to accept none of them. There is no way to do a "revote" due the constitution and with out a papertrail you can't even call the voters to bring back their reciepts to have their votes counted again. If you accept none of the votes you are liekly to have a voter rebellion on your hands if you tell them that the were denied their right to have their vote counted.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[DaVinci 0]

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Like I said, both sides have tried to fraudulently influence elections; both sides will continue to do so.

Yes, now how to prevent it? What is the problem with the real ID card? On the surface I like it. Do you have any material that shows the downsides?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Where is the proof? Allegations are not the same as proof.

It is factual that Diebold = shit at best, and very easy to cheat. To want to stick with them is very damning.

The solution is fairly simple - paper receipts. Tag each with a unique serial number (but remaining anonymous), dump all results onto an accessible database (third party), and let each voter who desires to verify their vote check it from their web browser.

If someone tries to cheat the results, it would have to be with a very small number of votes, else people would find it.

[sundevil777 102]

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It is factual that Diebold = shit at best, and very easy to cheat. To want to stick with them is very damning.

I think politicians in charge (either party) find it difficult to admit a lot of money was spent on crap. They will conclude it can be fixed, maybe it can with a lot more money, but I still don't see a benefit compared to punch cards.

How to address the problems of dead people/fake people/felons voting if you can't use some modern ID card?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Lucky... 0]

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I think a voter ID card is a reasonable way. It appears from some court decisions that perhaps the constitution doesn't allow any new burden, so an amendment to the state or US constitution may be needed to enact such a requirement.

How do you think it should be done?

I think the democrats oppose efforts to reduce voter fraud because they rely on it.

Funny, the only voter fraud issues I can think of occurred in 1972 and possibly 2000. Then you have Andrew Johnson after Lincoln was killed, usrpation of power, impeached multiple times. Hmmm, dems have their corruption and Repubs have theirs, don't really see the Dems using voter fraud.

[Lucky... 0]

Purple fingers

[mnealtx 0]

Have all the states enact laws to prevent the "same-day voters" would help... so would getting rid of the automatic "motor voter" and "EZvoter" schemes. I like the idea of serialized, machine readable paper ballots mentioned up-thread.

Make it harder for the dead people and illegals to vote, make it harder for the sytem to be 'gamed'....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706