7-Eleven drops Venezuela's Citgo as gas partner

[pirana 0]

Gotta agree with Idrankwhat. The guy may be an asshole and a murderous dictator; but there's plenty of those around against whom we take no action and pay little heed.

But he's got oil, lives in our hemisphere, and refuses to play by our rules; and that makes him a target.

Again, it's all about the oil. All the other flotsam, from both sides, is just smoke and mirrors, positioning and manipulation. lt's about cash baby. Been that way since corporations became more powerful (economically) than governments.

He's pretty much like Noriega, except he doesn't want to be told how to run his country. He will get taken out if he keeps this up (they have tried at least once already), just like Allende, Noriega, and a couple others from the region who's names escape me right now. Our government and the corporations that support it do not like to put up with this kind of behavior in our own hemisphere. It's bad business, and this all all about business.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Shawndiver 0]

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I'm curious as to how much money that translates to in retail and wholesale dollars. 2100 gas stations lost in a market is going to make a pinch of some degree.

Unfortunately in this global market it probably means he just has that much more to sell to asia.

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[rehmwa 2]

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Gotta agree with Idrankwhat. The guy may be an asshole and a murderous dictator; but there's plenty of those around against whom we take no action and pay little heed.

jeez, I don't always agree with Idrankwhat, but he seems like a nice enough guy.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

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The thing is that I believe you like him is because of his hate towards GWB, like many liberals in this country. Hate before reason.

I didn't say that I liked him and I think you should re-evaluate who's applying hate before reason. Your disdain for the man, which is probably well founded, is putting words in my mouth. I said I agreed with what he said about Bush's imperialist attitude toward global influence and the fact that the UN is democratic only in appearance. If you throw out the devil and sulphur firey rhetoric, which the media thrives on, and you listen to his complaints then he does make some valid points. But *my* main point is that I don't think that the US wants to get rid of him because he's a lousy ruler. We supported Saddam militarily and financially and have done the same with numerous bad guys while simultaneously disrupting stable governments or potentially stable governments all over the world. I think this is another instance where it's about oil. Venezuela a major supplier of oil to the US and even with the Citgo/7-11 thing I don't think that the US is suddenly going to stop importing from that source. But thanks for your input. It's a viewpoint that I didn't have before yesterday. I thought that he was a popular leader with the majority of the citizens, with or without his flair for the dramatic.

[Amazon 7]

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We supported Saddam militarily and financially and have done the same with numerous bad guys while simultaneously disrupting stable governments or potentially stable governments all over the world

I think a lot of our right wing posters wish those pictures of Rummy with Saddam did not exist.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Gotta agree with Idrankwhat. The guy may be an asshole and a murderous dictator; but there's plenty of those around against whom we take no action and pay little heed.

jeez, I don't always agree with Idrankwhat, but he seems like a nice enough guy.

Is it syntax or sin tax?

[SpeedRacer 1]

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We supported Saddam militarily and financially and have done the same with numerous bad guys while simultaneously disrupting stable governments or potentially stable governments all over the world

I think a lot of our right wing posters wish those pictures of Rummy with Saddam did not exist.

We supported Saddam during his war against Iran. But we're not the only ones to blame: we supported Saddam at the constant urging by Saudi Arabia & other Arabs, who were scared shitless about the Ayatollah, who at that time was threatening to take out the Sunni Arab governments of those countries.

By 1991, both we and many of those same Arab countries now feared the threat from Saddam. We may not have done the right thing at either time, but the USA was not working in a vacuum over there.

The truth about all that's happened in the last 20 years is a lot more complex than the pro-Bush or anti-Bush crowds would lead you to believe.

The bottom line is that whenever we militarily intrude in the Middle East on one side, it always comes back to bite us in the ass.

I'd like to see us stop fucking with the hornets nest over there & let the Middle East sink or swim on its own. They've been fighting each other for thousands of years (read the Bible), why step into the middle of it?

Speed Racer
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[rehmwa 2]

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Gotta agree with Idrankwhat. The guy may be an asshole and a murderous dictator; but there's plenty of those around against whom we take no action and pay little heed.

jeez, I don't always agree with Idrankwhat, but he seems like a nice enough guy.

Is it syntax or sin tax?

I'm not sure, but, at best, describing you as a murderous dictator, is a half truth. And, giving a speech for an assistant to turn into a transcript isn't really a bad character trait.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Trent 0]

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Gotta agree with Idrankwhat. The guy may be an asshole and a murderous dictator; but there's plenty of those around against whom we take no action and pay little heed.

What "actions" are we taking against Chavez? I'm sure that many Venezuelans will say that we're not doing ENOUGH to combat Chavez's brilliant stupidity and ridiculous behavior. Like I said before, all the Venezuelans I know actually WANT the US to invade Venezuela to kick his ass out. Contrary to what people seem to think about the US position on Chavez... it appears that our government does surprisingly little. There are no responses to his antics, only "expressions of concern" when he starts buying shitloads of Chinese weapons and letting Chinese military chill in his country. In fact, there aren't even sanctions against Venezuela. So where's this "targeting" of Chavez?

What you're confusing here is that many PEOPLE hate the man and what he's done with what used to be the gem of Latin America. It is ignorant to claim that this is all about business for those who speak out against him. If becoming a pure propaganda state run by a delusional criminal isn't anything to worry about... what is? He cracked down on ALL opposition, including the media. He caters ONLY to the ignorant and poor because of the ease with which they can be manipulated into thinking that the middle class are evil and the US is to blame for everything. Everything he does is to aggrandize himself... I doubt he really has any concern for his country other than keeping it under his thumb as a means to stay in power.

Spend some time talking with people who live(d) there and see. Popular disdain for Chavez is based in ANYTHING but oil. Venezuelans can only hope that the oil is a good enough reason to warrant the US's attention sometime in the near future, because up to now... we're not doing much.

Oh, hello again!

[Amazon 7]

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Like I said before, all the Venezuelans I know actually WANT the US to invade Venezuela to kick his ass out

SWEET.. Jungles ROCK.... you dont have all that silly sand around there to get into everything.

We may just a have a recruiting issue for that though.. seems we are already in one to many wars...unless the administration can actually get some more of their ubber patriotic followers to actually volunteer for the military..instead of avoiding it like the plague.

[SpeedRacer 1]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,215037,00.html Democrats denouncing Chavez's over-the-top anti-Bush comments. Kind of refreshing, really.

Speed Racer
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[idrankwhat 0]

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Spend some time talking with people who live(d) there and see. Popular disdain for Chavez is based in ANYTHING but oil. Venezuelans can only hope that the oil is a good enough reason to warrant the US's attention sometime in the near future, because up to now... we're not doing much.

My question is, why not (I love this) let the market sort it out? Why doesn't the US just say to Venezuela and Iran, or Iraq or....or....or... "hey, we don't like your methods and we're not going to buy anything from you? I think I already know the answer to that one but I thought the pot could use a stir

[Trent 0]

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SWEET.. Jungles ROCK.... you dont have all that silly sand around there to get into everything.

That was more a comment as to how bad the situation actually is. For all those that say we went into Iraq "uninvited"... well... if we have the need someday... we've been invited to Venezuela!

And to the comment about letting the market sort itself out... That'd work if it weren't such a scarce good. Any oil we don't take will be gobbled up by the chinese most likely. We'd have to stop buying foreign oil altogether to make a dent in the whole market. That wouldn't exactly hurt Chavez ALL that much... I have a feeling demand from other countries would just grow because OPEC would respond by lowering prices to get the more people on the "crack".

Oh, hello again!

[pirana 0]

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Gotta agree with Idrankwhat. The guy may be an asshole and a murderous dictator; but there's plenty of those around against whom we take no action and pay little heed.

jeez, I don't always agree with Idrankwhat, but he seems like a nice enough guy.

I didn't mean Idrankwhat was an asshole and a murderous dictator. I meant Chavez. And I don't know either one well enough to know if they are nice guys or not.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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we've been invited to Venezuela!

Dind't the majority of people vote for Chavez? Wouldn't that mean that this supposed invitation is from a disgruntled minority?

Doesn't Chavez have the support of the lower classes, but generally not from the upper classes? In your opinion does that mean that the upper classes no better than the lower classes and should rule despite what a democratic vote would show?

[Trent 0]

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Dind't the majority of people vote for Chavez?

Depends on if you beleive that dictatorships who have "elections" don't stuff the boxes. I mean, plenty of people think that elections were stolen here while under SERIOUS scrutiny from all kinds of media and politicians... what can happen in a place where the dictator controls the media and cracks down on dissent? But, hey, Jimmy Carter said it was straight... sooo.... But don't take my word for it... talk to some folks from there.

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Wouldn't that mean that this supposed invitation is from a disgruntled minority?

Or an oppressed minority. How many victims do you need before you consider an "invitation" to be legit? We should ask the UN to set up a "HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED!" hotline, right? That'd work.

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Doesn't Chavez have the support of the lower classes, but generally not from the upper classes?

Buying votes with food and rounding up people to bus them to polling stations as long as they vote for Chavez doesn't really mean they know what's up. He relies on the ignorance of many to show that he has some support. On another side, he does have many rich supporters as well, because through his cronyism... they get richer. Don't think for a second that Chavez is a man of the people... he's lining his pockets, his friends' pockets, and trying to make himself a nuevo Simon de Bolivar.

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In your opinion does that mean that the upper classes no better than the lower classes and should rule despite what a democratic vote would show?

No. What shows that is the fact that Chavez put his supporters in charge of all the companies he nationalized and the country slipped to the bottom of the economic rankings. Economic status aside, his rich and poor supporters have shown that they are fully capable of fucking up their country.

If the majority of people voted for Bush and he was able to purge dissent in congress and the senate... would you be okay with him changing the Constitution to allow himself to stay in office pretty much indefinitely?

Oh, hello again!

[Steel 0]

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Dind't the majority of people vote for Chavez?

Depends on if you beleive that dictatorships who have "elections" don't stuff the boxes. I mean, plenty of people think that elections were stolen here while under SERIOUS scrutiny from all kinds of media and politicians... what can happen in a place where the dictator controls the media and cracks down on dissent? But, hey, Jimmy Carter said it was straight... sooo.... But don't take my word for it... talk to some folks from there.

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Wouldn't that mean that this supposed invitation is from a disgruntled minority?

Or an oppressed minority. How many victims do you need before you consider an "invitation" to be legit? We should ask the UN to set up a "HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED!" hotline, right? That'd work.

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Doesn't Chavez have the support of the lower classes, but generally not from the upper classes?

Buying votes with food and rounding up people to bus them to polling stations as long as they vote for Chavez doesn't really mean they know what's up. He relies on the ignorance of many to show that he has some support. On another side, he does have many rich supporters as well, because through his cronyism... they get richer. Don't think for a second that Chavez is a man of the people... he's lining his pockets, his friends' pockets, and trying to make himself a nuevo Simon de Bolivar.

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In your opinion does that mean that the upper classes no better than the lower classes and should rule despite what a democratic vote would show?

No. What shows that is the fact that Chavez put his supporters in charge of all the companies he nationalized and the country slipped to the bottom of the economic rankings. Economic status aside, his rich and poor supporters have shown that they are fully capable of fucking up their country.

If the majority of people voted for Bush and he was able to purge dissent in congress and the senate... would you be okay with him changing the Constitution to allow himself to stay in office pretty much indefinitely?

Thanks for saying what needed to be said.

It is refreshing to see people like yourself proving that its not a given that people not directly effected by this are completely clueless/careless about it.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[LouDiamond 1]

It is this type of thing that makes me laugh to myself and shake my head. The American public is oblivious to what is going on around the world until it affects them. This shit isn't new, its been going on for decades in South America.

Chavez is not a very popular person with the rich or those who own land,especially those businesses that have land that he wants to reposess and divide among "the people". The commoner by far isn't very fond of him either(current tv has a video documentary done by a local,interviewing locals, that substantiates this) but like Cuba, what are you going to do when saying anything against the regime in power could not only get you but your family killed? Socialist idealogies have sprung up all over SA at one time or another and they all begin, rule and end the same way the USSR did.

An abridged history that can be used to describe most SA political cycles simply by changing the countries names can be seen here. Just change the country and persons name and history will prove this pattern to be true.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[juanesky 0]

Yes Scott, Tren and myself are pretty sure on what really goes on over there. It is a lot easier to have an ignorant opinion without much research and based only on the latest news....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon